L&L's 225 gal display in wall room dividing 2 side viewable build

[SkyHawk]

The Fish Room

The Fish Room

The fish room was super fun to plan for. I have never had a fish room before but I did consult my notes from my last system as to the features I wanted this time around. For you guys that are debating the necessity of this room I will say if you can do it, do it. I love mine and now can’t imagine maintaining my system without it.

Requirements
1-Must be in basement. There just is not any space for a fish room on the main floor of our house.
2-Must house the pumps (all pumps make some sort of sound), I am running at least three 24/7. I want the main display as quiet as possible.
3-Must have a utility sink. I can’t even understand how I could maintain my tank without this now…
4-House a sump of at least 90 gallons. I want to add as much additional water volume to the system to improve water parameter stability and increase possible bioload.
5-Sump must drain directly to home drain. Not interested in carrying buckets and I have a bad back…
6-House a heated salt water reservoir with built in mixer.
7-House a RO/DI water reservoir that is plumbed to salt water reservoir, RO/DI filters and to auto top off.
8-Humidity stays within a reasonable range <50%
9-Two dedicated fish room only 120V circuits on 20 amp breakers. When everything is on at the same time (and it will happen) the system sucks a lot of juice. No sense heating up my wires and possibly tripping a circuit. Having two also gives you some redundancy should one trip.
10-Short plumbing runs. Not sure why this came in at #10 as this is quite important to me and had large influence on location of fish room and its content. Keep the plumbing as short and simple as possible as to maximize pump efficiency (directly related to electricity cost).
11-House a quarantine tank min 33 gal.
12-Tank maintenance does not involve carrying/lifting buckets.

Spoiler Alert: I was able to achieve all the above and more with the exception of #11. I just couldn't fit the quarantine tank in the room. I was unwilling to throw away my 10' shelves (seen in previous pictures, post #11) which I had just built last year. They are just way too handy. So the QT had to be put outside the fish room.

I also started curing my BRS Pukani dry rock in 2 Rubbermaid containers. This made me realize that the first thing I need is that utility sink.

 

[Hookup]

Very clean. IMO that means a lot of planning and taking your time. Well done, something that is hard to do.

Sorry about the torch, that kind of sucks... hope you can nail down what the issue is/isnt easily.

Looking forward to more photos for sure... and of course, the fully monty... the FTS.

 

[SkyHawk]

Utility Sink

Utility Sink

Okay so above is where the utility sink is going. This is the back wall of my shop / new fish room. You can see the cold water line is right here and I'll tap into the floor drain that is right behind my air compressor. The problem is that the water meter is in the way of the sink counter I want to build and #2, the ethics of whether I tap my cold water line before or after the meter"¦ The third problem which won't get resolved for months after this, is that the closest hot water line is quite far from this location. I eventually got tired of washing my hands in freezing cold water and went through the trouble of running a hot water line all the way to this sink"¦

Final product with working counter space (for now my RODI filters needed for my rock curing). Those of you who do not have this in their fish rooms. I can no longer comprehend how you do without. I use this sink every day. Its drain that I connected to the existing floor drain also supports my RODI waste water as well as my sump drain line. The counter was designed so that I can also roll my shop vac under there. The only problem that I will advise against is that I skipped protecting my wall from overspill or splashing. It is next to impossible to clean anything in the sink or dump a water bucket without getting water on the back wall which has no protection. I really need to get on that before it's too late.

 

[dave.m]

The backboard would be a good opportunity for a sheet of FRP. If you are ever thinking of redoing the counter I would suggest an under the counter double-sink. It really makes a difference.

Dave.M

 

[SkyHawk]

Sump

Sump

Next I had to figure out my sump. There isn't a lot of options of where it would have to go. To keep the plumbing simple with short runs back upstairs, it has to go right under the tank. I wanted to keep my shelves so I decided to put the sump beside my shelves and build myself two walls to enclosed my shop/fish room. With a baby in the house, I would of had to close off my shop at some point anyway. Two new walls will give me a blank canvas for my sump's wiring requirements and the dimensions will fit a 6' tank. It wasn't too hard to convince the wife that we needed a 180 gal. sump. I guess she doesn't really care what I do in the basement...

Originally I wanted to DIY custom acrylic sump but when I looked into it, I found the cost of the required thickness acrylic in this size sump was just too expensive in comparison to a used glass tank. So I hit the classifieds and found myself a used home built 180 gal. glass tank made with 5/8" glass. I think it might even be heavier than my 225 upstairs. We were only two boys to bring it into the basement and I guarantee I will smash it with a hammer if it ever has to go back upstairs. No pictures were captured during this event. I just didn't have a free hand.

Here it is on my shop bench. The silicone didn't look very promissing so I cut it all off and redid it now rather than later. Next I needed some holes in this thing. Considering where the sump was going to sit, where the plumbing needed to go to and existing obstacles (my shelves) I decided on two holes. One for a 2" bulkhead in the bottom pane, right side. This will connect to the external return pump. In hindsight 1.5" may of been sufficient but when unsure of something, always go bigger right? Oops, forgot to tell you, at this point I've already purchased a Reeflo Dart/Snapper hybrid pump that requires the 2" intake connection. More on pumps later but here is the pic with the specs. And, I might as well tell you now that my head will be/is 6'10". That's the best I could do, constrained by wanting my fish room in the basement.

The second hole will be for a 1" bulkhead in the right pane, for the sump drain. This one is to meet another of my requirements as previously mentioned to have the sump connected directly to the home drain. Vertical location determined to allow me to do a 60 gal. water change without having to shut my return pump off. So need to order 2 diamond bits and learn how to drill glass... Got my bits and a free sheet of glass for learning. I practiced drilling maybe 6-8 holes at different speeds and after not breaking the glass once I decided to go for it. I used plumber's putty to encircle the drilling site and keep the bit in water, put tape on the back side to hold the cut out for when you punch through. Last tip on this job: every time you need to turn, rotate a tank like this because you always have to drill from the top to keep your bit in the water, you will need your buddies over cause it weights a ton. I'm sorry I didn't get a pic of this for you guys but here is a pic of the bits and the cut outs.

Now I need to decide on my skimmer which I want internal because it's cheaper and I got the space, simpler plumbing wise, and collection cup overflow messes are self contained.

 

[SkyHawk]

The backboard would be a good opportunity for a sheet of FRP. If you are ever thinking of redoing the counter I would suggest an under the counter double-sink. It really makes a difference.

Dave.M

Hi Dave, thanks for sticking around. I'm definitely going to improve that back wall. I hate seeing it get wet. Just a matter of when it will get to the top of the priority list... Tanks for the suggestions, I will look into them.

 

[canyousee]

Well documented,good read,thanks for the thread lots of good information. Please keep us in the loop...Mike

 

[SkyHawk]

Well documented,good read,thanks for the thread lots of good information. Please keep us in the loop...Mike

Thanks for the note Mike. Glad to hear others are benefiting from the documentation. I am planning on keeping you in the loop. Next I will be posting the skimmer selection and some more sump customizing.

 

[SkyHawk]

More sump construction

More sump construction

So I decided on the Reef Octopus XP-3000 cone internal skimmer.

So far I really like this skimmer and would buy it again. The reason I am buying this thing now (I don't need to use it for a while still) is that I need to take exact measurements as to its vertical placement in the sump, location of the skimmer outflow line, figure out exact space needed for collection cup and to be able to remove it for cleaning. If you read my requirements above regarding maximizing pump efficiency (for electricity savings) you can understand that my sump return section operating water level will have to be as high as possible to the ceiling with the constraint that I still have to be able to fit the skimmer and be able to remove the collection cup for cleaning.

Sump Baffles
Because of the size of this sump and the return line fed from the bottom, I do not have an issue with leftover bubbles coming from the skimmer and so do not need baffles for cleaning that up. I do need one baffle to separate the skimmer section from the return section. I wanted to make the return section as large as possible (less auto topping off, larger possible on the fly water changes, more space for future refugium) but found that to meet my maximizing pump efficiency requirement, the skimmer would have to be located in the ceiling between floor joists"¦ I don't know if you remember from a previous photo, regardless I'll show you again below but I have a large section of ductwork that is really in my way and so to be able to clean the collection cup the skimmer will have to move over towards the middle and so the sump skimmer section will have to be a little larger than I would of wanted.

Next, I need a piece of glass cut to fit inside the sump with a hole drilled to fit a 1.5" bulkhead. The hole needs to line up exactly with where the skimmer outflow line will be. How it's going to work is the skimmer will exhaust skimmed water through to the return section via this connection and will be unable to return to the skimmer section because of the waterfall over the top of the baffle (return pump pumps higher volume than skimmer pump). This gives me a constant skimmer section water line and means the skimmer is skimming drain "œdirty" water only and not re-skimming its own "œclean" water. Of course the glass shop has no problem cutting the glass for me to my exact dimensions but threatens to take 3-4 weeks to drill the hole I want. I cannot be set back this amount of time so I just take the glass and procure myself my third diamond tip glass cutting bit. With all my recent glass drilling experience now, drilling this thin piece of glass is no problem. I silicone the baffle in as straight as I can, using triangles and tape. Skimmer will need to be raised to sit at its factory recommended water level so I put together a skimmer stand using pvc piping. Sump is good to go. So that you can better understand what I've described above I will show you the below out of sequence picture.

A few things to notice in this picture:
1- I have very little room to work in this sump (you'll want a lot more than this). This is due to my prioritizing the head height at the expense of difficult maintenance but mostly cause of that !*&% ductwork.
2-My fancy skimmer stand
3-The bulkhead connection from the skimmer through the one baffle
4-The angled ductwork section right in front of the skimmer. That's because I had an HVAC buddy of mine come over and cut out as much as he could without compromising my air circulation upstairs. This was necessary to be able to place the skimmer as much to the left as possible...
5-Black strainer on right side floor is the 2" return.
6-Sump drain line is in the right side pane about 6" of the bottom. It wasn't in the pic, so I drew it in for you, it's 1".

So drain water comes in from that spa flex on the left side. I've also got a filter sock here. Protein skimmer skims and exhaust to right side return section. Extra water volume not handled by skimmer falls over the top of the one baffle. External return pump is fed from floor drain. Far right side line is my sump drain line that I use for two things. 1-Water changes (drains right to sewer, love this), 2- Filling a 5 gal. home depot bucket with water for my quarantine tank. So there you go, I was unable to meet my no lugging buckets of water requirement"¦ But only for the small quarantine tank. The main system is bucket free

I will mention the auto top off solution that you want/need for your sump but as not to get too out of sequence with the story I will refer you to look ahead if you are looking for that.

Now that I know exactly where my skimmer will live and the vertical specs on my future water lines and aquarium heights (don't forget the ¾" piece of foam), I can build myself yet another stand"¦

 

[SkyHawk]

Sump Lessons learned

Sump Lessons learned

Okay, with the sump design somewhat explained I will leave you with a few more thoughts after having been running it for some time now.

Would I put the sump this close to the ceiling next time? I'll admit yes, I can just barely get the skimmer collection cup out but being a frequent chore it is still a pain in the butt every time. But I do really like being able to return my water upstairs under 7' of head and use a much more energy efficient pump. So yes, sacrificing sump ease of maintenance in exchange for power consumption with a smaller pump, I would keep it high to the ceiling. What I would do different next time is not setup the sump right next to large pieces of ductwork. The extra trouble of a different solution would have been worth the now continuous annoyance of it being in my way. Putting the sump parallel with ceiling joists or at least perpendicular to the ductwork would have given more working space too.

 

[SkyHawk]

Sump Stand

Sump Stand

The sump stand is a lot like the one upstairs except that the top frame is 2x6 construction but it has supports in the middle front and back. It was built high to get the sump water level up but also it has to fit my 2 water reservoirs. One for RODI water, one for mixed salt water. Here are a couple of pics.

Top frame.

Again, 3" deck screws, construction adhesive, plywood top, 3/4" foam. Leveling was tricky again here since the basement floor is even more crooked than upstairs. It was done by putting the stand exactly where it will eventually sit and marking the four corners on the floor with permanent marker. My reservoirs just fit under there, I could not have used 2x8s.

Next I'll need walls...

 

[Rybren]

The build is coming along nicely. It'll be nice to have another local reef to visit soon.

Cheers,

Jerry

 

[rbarn]

Before you get too much farther, did you measure how thick your concrete pad is? If it's only 4" you might still have a problem. You would have been better to pour a raised 3" thick, 10" x 10" concrete pad under each jack post that would help distribute the weight out more.

Dave.M

No need to even do that. Even just a piece of 3/4" plywood 2-3x's the size of the pole's metal feet would go a long way in spreading the load out.

 

[SkyHawk]

The build is coming along nicely. It'll be nice to have another local reef to visit soon.

Cheers,

Jerry

Thanks Jerry. Happy to have you along. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine...

 

[SkyHawk]

No need to even do that. Even just a piece of 3/4" plywood 2-3x's the size of the pole's metal feet would go a long way in spreading the load out.

Thanks for joining us rbarn.

 

[SkyHawk]

Fish Room Walls

Fish Room Walls

I'm not looking to get into plumbing yet but my requirement for the sump drain to sewer feature will require a pipe to run along my shelves towards my new sink. I don't want piping in my shelves so this is my last chance to move those shelves to install my 1" PVC pipe in the unfinished existing wall before things become really hard to move. I take this opportunity to cover the unfinished wall with painted sheeting. It annoys me when things fall out the back of the shelves. I write down exact start and end coordinates of my now covered pipe, since I won't be getting back to this for a while still.

Drain pipe in the wall, not in my shelves and the painted sheeting for the back of my shelves.

2x4s starting to go up. I'm extending that wall out enough to fit the 6' tank.

A few things in this picture. 1-The stands been painted, 2-I've got the drywall up behind the sump with first coat of plaster, 3- First shot of one of my water reservoirs. I had to buy them before designing the stand that they will go in. They're around 61 gal., food grade plastic and you can see the 2x4s on the left side bottom of the stand where one will sit. 4-That loose 2x4 on the top of the wall... Guess what? Well, you'll see in the next pic...

Yep! The sump will have to slide in through the wall and that 2x4 can't go up until after, otherwise it would be in the way. Won't go in from the front cause of the ductwork. Not a lot of wiggle room in this build... There's my sump on the floor, it sat there in my way for about a month.

This pic shows the rest of the new wall, where the new entrance will be and the other side of my shop/fish room. On the shop bench in the middle on top of the black speaker you can see the practice glass I mentioned earlier and some of the holes I drilled for practice. I also circled the front left side of the sump where you can see the two holes I drilled for the sump return and sump drain. And it looks like my second water reservoir is sitting on my new sink counter in the very back here. I was making RO water for rock curing.

Next, I'm going to need some power, so I'm off to Home Depot to buy 2 20amp breakers and a big spool of 12 gauge wire and well a bunch of other stuff that you'll see in the next post...

 

[Rybren]

Thanks Jerry. Happy to have you along. If you show me yours, I'll show you mine...

Hee hee.

I'm in Orleans. You're always welcome to stop by - not that my piddling little 75G tank is anything special.

 

[SkyHawk]

Electrical

Electrical

Okay time for wiring, here is what I want:

Upstairs
-I have already put in 4 outlets upstairs above tank for our lights. Done...
-2 hidden outlets above aquarium in case I ever want a sea swirl
-4 outlets in stand for future use
-2 3-way switches under stand for remotely controlling return pump and close loop pump

Fish Room
-12 outlets beside sump for 2 heaters, auto top off, protein skimmer, sump lights, pH meter, spares, etc"¦
-4 outlets under sump stand for salt water mixing pump, mixing station main pump, water reservoir heater, spare
-2 outlets towards middle of room next to where close loop pump and return pump will be.
-7 switches (3 double pole, 4 single pole). These switches will be wired to specific outlets. Two 3-way switches for fish room control of return pump and close loop pump, 2 switches for the water mixing station main pump control (one is a 3-way, I'll explain that later), switch for mixing station heater, switch for salt water reservoir mix pump, switch for protein skimmer. The sump lighting will be off of a timer which has a manual override.

So I need 28 outlets, 5 3-way switches, 2 single pole switches and 2 illuminated single pole switches. The illuminated switches are a safety reminder for the mixing pump and heater that will be inside the salt water reservoir. Knock on wood, so far I have not run these dry but you have to be real careful"¦

The objectives with this project are:
1-To hide as much of the needed wiring mess inside the walls, to have a clean final product
2-Have all the power requirements for the system
3-Divide by wattage and redundancy as evenly as possible the outlets between the 2 circuits
4-Have switches to control equipment that is turned on/off during routine maintenance.
5-Keep in mind that I plan to install battery backups for the return pump and close loop pump at some point in the future. This will complicate my 3 way switch setup.

This is a pic of my wiring job/plan. I tried to simplify it as much as possible using 3 wire cables where I could but basically it's still a pretty good mess of wires. Once you start going on the wiring and connections you need your diagram not to get lost or make a mistake. Don't skip this step.

This is the pre photo of the control panel...

Here you can see the first bank of outlets has been started, they are on circuit #1. You can also see the box for the switches I'm hiding under the stand for the mixing station equipment.

A little more done. Those two wires on the left are wired directly to the panel on separate 20 amp breakers.

My illuminated switches were special order and aren't in yet so I'm using regular ones for now.

There you go. All done, well those tied white wires on the left are the 3 wire cables for the pumps on 3 way switches and will have to be connected on the other side but that will have to wait.

 

[SkyHawk]

Drywall fish room

Drywall fish room

Now that the wires are all in, let's make it nice...

This is the future sump/mixing station area.

This is a better shot of the sump area. Drywall all up, mudding done, sanded. Unfortunate that the sump doesn't fit in any other way. That 2x4 at the top is easily removable...

My new shop/fish room wall and entrance. Cozy in here. Why is my return air ductwork open? Because there is a large section that I haven't put back yet from 2x10 day...

Ready for primer. You can see the special bracket for my removable 2x4. And my 2 illuminated switches are installed here. Better pic of that later...

Painted semi-gloss.

 

[SkyHawk]

Tank on Stand

Tank on Stand

Good news! Main display tank has been put on stand upstairs. Thanks to my 5 buddies and commercial suction cups.

Bad news! The only picture I have has me in it, and I'm not showing you that.
I had to jump in to drill pilot holes through the 3/4" plywood for the closed loop. Tips on that: I wanted to drill the holes beforehand but it was really hard measuring exactly where they would be (the tank work order schematic is not 100% accurate to reality). Drilling the plywood from under the tank was doable with the pilot holes and tape but obviously you must be real careful because the foam is only 3/4" thick after that you hit tempered glass and game over... If you are not a real careful sort of person I would just drill bigger holes and do them in advance. Also when choosing your hole size remember you need to be able to get your hand or a tool in there after to tighten the bulkheads. The close loop intake is a really big hole so that one I had to do in advance with a jigsaw cause I don't own a hole saw that big. Anyway here is a pic with proof that the tank is on the stand and the work done today.

Okay so this pic shows (barely) that I in fact have the main display on the stand and that I succeeded in running my 1.5" spa flex to the sump. These are the drain lines for the overflow.

You'll love the next post. Main display gets water in it for first time...