L&L's 225 gal display in wall room dividing 2 side viewable build

[Hookup]

Hey Hey... great series of updates!

The sump room photos are looking great... certainly very clean. I'm looking forward to the next set to see the final layout. I'm about to embark on a complete re-design of my sump room this spring and looking to leverage some of your ideas and work.

Great stuff!

 

[SkyHawk]

Hey Hey... great series of updates!

The sump room photos are looking great... certainly very clean. I'm looking forward to the next set to see the final layout. I'm about to embark on a complete re-design of my sump room this spring and looking to leverage some of your ideas and work.

Great stuff!

Thanks Tim. Having seen what you've accomplised with your setup, I'm flattered that you are looking to leverage some of my ideas. But I wont flatter myself too much as I'll admit that my sump room was built after having seen yours... I'll try and get more posts up soon for you and hope the pics show what you are looking for.

PS. I'm off to Toronto tomorrow and hoping to come back with a few corals on Sunday. I wonder if it's time to add SPS or just continue with LPS...

 

[Hookup]

The shops in TO have some great stuff for sure... Hope you found a few good deals.

SPS vs LPS is all about water quality...

Are you running the baling lite system?

 

[zenom]

Wish I had your construction skills. I am an engineer by trade, but I cannot do a lot of the manual labor and make it look decent. Great work so far. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

[SkyHawk]

The shops in TO have some great stuff for sure... Hope you found a few good deals.

SPS vs LPS is all about water quality...

Are you running the baling lite system?

I am not running the baling lite system, I will have to look into that.

Water quality... Well my params all are good, but I think their might be more to it than that. I wish I knew more about all these different corals...

 

[SkyHawk]

Wish I had your construction skills. I am an engineer by trade, but I cannot do a lot of the manual labor and make it look decent. Great work so far. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

Thanks Zenom. I am an engineer also but a Systems Engineer, so I would be better suited to rewrite the software that programs my lights... Glad to have you along.

 

[SkyHawk]

Plumbing I

Plumbing I

Okay the next little while will be plumbing. With my close loop holes cut through the plywood, I’ll start with sealing the bottom pane of the tank cause I’m anxious to get water in it… So, eight ¾” sch80 bulkheads, eight nipples, eight true union ball valves, one 2” sch80 bulkhead (for CL intake), nipple, true union ball valve.

Front left corner closed loop return. This pic shows an error that was made with the stand with a bracing 2x4 that made it quite difficult to fit in the required plumbing after. Luckily I was able to fix it with out too much trouble.

Four left side valves.

Right side valves including the big 2" one.

And here is what you have been waiting for, water in the tank.

From the kitchen, don’t get too excited, the system won’t see salt for another 2 months…

Got my first fish! Sorry no pics. An orange goldfish named Wilson. Thanks honey, love you. Wilson was with us while I figured out all our plumbing but unfortunately he didn’t survive Pump Test Day (more on that later). I really though goldfish were tougher than that but I guess the rapid temperature change from the addition of tap water was too much for him. R.I.P. Wilson… “Wilson, I’m sorry… I’m sorry Wilson.” For you Tom Hanks fans…

Lessons Learned
So here I will admit that I do not have threaded connections figured out and welcome advice from any who have mastered these. The nine CL connections leaked for about a month, maybe more. Everyday I’d fix one and another would start leaking… I really, really hate the threaded connections. I understand that I might be happy to have these later when I if/ever take this apart but what a pain in the butt. You apparently want threaded connections anywhere that you might have to take apart again. Cemented ones don’t turn… But they don’t leak either, not one.

Below is what I did and certainly would try differently next time. Manufacture documentation says not to use Teflon tape on their threaded connections but to use a thread sealant. So I bought the thread sealant with the PTFE, non-toxic (what a messy product to work with). Well, at present, I disagree with the manufacture. I’ve found that the Teflon tape connections have had a higher “no-leak” success rate. Even better I’ve found that the combination of the sealant with the tape works best. Another thing I’ll inform you of as I think I could of improved, is the quality of the Teflon tape. I must of bought the crappiest Chinese brand. I suspect there is quality with this stuff and thickness, and width of the tape matters. Don’t bother with the tips on the direction of the application of the tape, I put the tape on in the correct direction according to the threads and still got problems…

Another tip I will mention are the bulkheads. I went schedule 80 and I would do this again but, I would look (and be willing to pay extra) for the ones with the reverse threaded nut. My 2” CL intake is like this and wow, what a nice feature when it comes to tightening up leaking nipples and valves…

Here are the tools I had to go buy to battle the next month.

A bigger adjustable wrench, a belt wrench, Vise-Grip pliers (I used rubber to cover the teeth).

 

[SkyHawk]

Mixing Station

Mixing Station

Next, or while I'm waiting for it to stop raining under the stand upstairs, I get back to work in the fish room and ready for the sump.

Don't know if you read my fish room requirements in a previous post but below I will show you how I met some of those requirements and what I put together for a mixing station to simplify system maintenance. So far I love it and wouldn't change a thing.

The above pic shows my 2 sealed top containers. They hold around 61 gal. each. The left one is my salt water, right is RODI water. I drilled a hole at the bottom of each and installed a uniseal to plumb in the shown 3/4" piping. You can see how both have a union for disassembly. You can also see how both have a ball valve to select which reservoir feeds the intake of the shown yellow mixing station main pump. I went with a Pan World NH-40PX, so far I'm happy with that selection. The other thing you can see at the top in the middle there is a pipe pointing at you. That one is also valved and is used for when I'm thirsty. Just kidding I use it for when I want to test the salinity of the salt water, or to fill a 5 gal. pail for the QT tank. Oh, and if you are wondering why the salt reservoir is sticking out the front unlike the RODI reservoir, it's so that I can pour the salt in the top (I have a dedicated funnel).

Another shot of the plumbing.

This shot shows the 3/4" spa flex line plumbed to the main mixing station pump. This line will go over top the sump and will be used for automatic water top off from the RODI reservoir.

This pic is underneath the stand and shows a little more of the plumbing for my solution. The spa flex coming up from the bottom is right from the pump's outflow. Next is the cross connection. It allows the water to be pumped straight up for auto top off. That's what happens when the two valves shown are closed. Otherwise, I can open that valve at the back and move the water into the salt reservoir or open the front valve and get myself hosed out in front. There is no valve for the auto top off path because you don't need it.

This is what I came up with for the hardware that needs to go inside the salt water reservoir. Here we have a 300 watt heater (I went with ViaAqua), a digital thermometer (don't trust my heater...), and a Korallia circulation pump rated at 2250 gph for mixing up my salt. The pipe does nothing, it just holds everything in place inside the drum.

This pic was taken a little later. It shows the step I had to build to 1-protect my plumbing from getting stepped on and 2-help me reach into the sump during routine sump maintenance. You can also see the thermometer display, heater controller and another feature I added. That blue line on the right side top of the RODI reservoir, inside the drum I added an auto shut off for the RODI filters.

Next I will show you a few out of sequence pics to show you how this works from the control panel.

So control panel on left side and there is that funnel I was talking to you about. I've skipped ahead here but you may as well notice the towel bar. Once the system got running it didn't take me long to figure out I needed this...

A little closer.

And here is what I wanted to show you. Perhaps this could of been in my electrical post but I though it made sense to include here. Left to right: On/off switch is power to mixing station main pump. Auto/manual is if the pump is powered from the auto top off or directly from the on/off switch. The next two are the fish room control of the main return pump and the close loop pump. The next two are my illuminated mix and heater switches for the salt water reservoir, sorry I didn't snap a pic with one on. Last is the protein skimmer switch used mostly for when cleaning the collection cup.

So basically during water maintenance I flip the on/off switch to off, switch control over to manual, adjust my ball valves however I like then turn the power back on. When I'm done water maintenance I just have to remember to put my valves back so that RO water is feeding the pump and flow is going straight up to the sump, then remember to put the pump back on auto with power on.

So I can:
1-Pump RO water into salt reservoir
2-Recirculate salt water for extra mixing power
3-Pump salt water up to sump (during water change)
4-Pump manually or automatically RO water up to sump

I do not have a way of pumping water back into the RO reservoir (haven't need to...)

 

[dave.m]

For your leaking threads conundrum: you can also use silicone to help fill the taped threaded joints. Silicone will not adhere to teflon tape but will fill any gaps. Note that if you do eventually open the threaded connection you will have to re-apply the silicone as it beads up when you undo the connection. You just need a dab of silicone on your finger and smear it around the teflon tape on the threads.

Dave.M

 

[SkyHawk]

For your leaking threads conundrum: you can also use silicone to help fill the taped threaded joints. Silicone will not adhere to teflon tape but will fill any gaps. Note that if you do eventually open the threaded connection you will have to re-apply the silicone as it beads up when you undo the connection. You just need a dab of silicone on your finger and smear it around the teflon tape on the threads.

Dave.M

Thanks Dave. I did read about this silicone method somewhere else too. Perhaps I will do that next time.

 

[jrod738776]

How are you measuring how much water is taken out and then how much new water is put in so that they equal each other?

 

[SkyHawk]

How are you measuring how much water is taken out and then how much new water is put in so that they equal each other?

Hi jrod,

I assume you are refering to a water change. To get this right I had to do it a few times and adjust a piece of tape I use to mark what I labelled the "water change level" on the return side of the sump. So now that I have the tape marker right (i.e. a full reservoir) here is how a water change works:

1-Turn off main mixing station pump power (you need to do this because it's normally on auto and so would turn on as soon as the level drops when you start draining water from the the return side).
2-Open sump drain valve and watch water level drop to the marked "water change level", this amount of water equals a full salt water reservoir. Close drain valve.
3-Set valves so that salt water is feeding pump.
4-Check that salt water reservoir heater and mixing pump are off (the green illuminated switches).
5-Turn power back on. Since you are still on auto top off mode, it will pump salt water back to the sump normal operating water level and empty the salt water reservoir (maybe an inch left, I don't want to run the pump dry), then it shuts off automatically.
6-Adjust valves so that next auto top off comes from RO water, not salt... Done, 61 gal water change, no buckets, no water on my floor...

Hope that answers your question.

PS: You can also calculate water volume using the formula length X depth X height / 231. This works for inches and will give you a volume in US gallons. This gave me a starting point for my first piece of tape

 

[SkyHawk]

Sump Day

Sump Day

Next it's time to get the sump on the stand to continue with the plumbing. So I get my buddies over again to slide this thing through the wall and onto the stand. A few last preparations beforehand, were drilling out a hole for the 2" bulkhead for the return (you can see this done in the previous mixing station photos) and tying up the drain line and the over the top mixing station line.

Here are a few pics of some progress this week.

Drain lines are strapped in (stainless steel screws). Gate valve on main drain line is plumbed in. If you don't know what this is for make sure you do some research on the "Bean Animal overflow". Mine is a variant on this but my drain lines run out the side of my tank. This shot is also an after pic of the ductwork mod to give me a little more clearance for getting my hands in there after the sump goes up.

Okay so sump is on the stand now. Here I am leak testing it. This pic also shows that I've got the 2" bulkhead, nipple and valve installed. You can also see the 1" sump drain on the right side and just barely see its valve. Yes there is a collection cup on top of that skimmer. How do I get it out? Not easily... I have to bring it all the way over to the right. Don't put your sump beside ductwork...

So this pic is taken outside the fish room. With the sump in now. I can install that top 2x4 and put up a sheet of drywall.

 

[SkyHawk]

Quarantine Tank

Quarantine Tank

Next I setup a 33 gal quarantine tank and have started cycling the tank. Funny I was able to get this tank all setup and running in 2 hrs on a week night. I don't have any pics of this but thought I'd let you know I've got this done.

 

[SkyHawk]

Closed Loop Plumbing

Closed Loop Plumbing

So at this point I thought the 9 bulkheads and valves had stopped leaking so I decided to take on a little more and add the closed loop plumbing. Happily, I took the time to put up painted sheeting and caulk all seams inside the stand before it got too hard to work under there. This proved to be a good move"¦ I didn't take a specific pic of this but you'll see it in the plumbing pics below.

So here is the closed loop solution. I wanted to do an Ocean Motion rotating 4 way drum but didn't want to spend the money. Hopefully this will be good enough.

So the big 2" line on the floor is the intake from the back right corner. It heads to the the pump in the basement. The pump return is 1.5" and I keep splitting it into 2 using Y adapters until the last connection where the Y adapter also downsizes to 3/4" for the final connection to the valves. I used spa flex and Y adapters to reduce the head loss of the would be many tees and elbows otherwise. So far this solution is working good and I've got probably too much flow.

I was able to hide one of the splitters in the wall. This pic also shows the two switches that control the return pump and close loop pump from upstairs. It also shows 4 outlets that I put under the stand. I haven't used these yet for anything but maybe someday...

Here is a close up.

 

[SkyHawk]

Pump Stand

Pump Stand

Next I'm going to need to connect this stuff to my pumps downstairs. So I figured out where this plumbing is coming out downstairs and it's right in the middle of the place... Well I wanted to keep the plumbing as efficient as possible so I guess my pumps are going right in the middle of the place... I opted to at least save the floor space and achieved this by hanging the pumps from the ceiling. Here is what I came up with. I forgot to take a pic of this so I'll have to show you yet another out of sequence pic.

The top one is the close loop pump, a Reeflo Dart/Snapper hybrid that I bought about 7 months prior. The water comes in and back up, it's only here to move the noise (not much) out of the living room. The bottom one is the return pump but I didn't have this one yet. You can see the plumbing run is quite simple on this one too. As direct as possible from the sump, and then straight upstairs.

Another view from the side to show you the 2 switched outlets for the pumps. Each pump is separately controllable from upstairs or downstairs.

 

[SkyHawk]

Pump Test Day

Pump Test Day

At this stage I have enough plumbing done to try my pump. I have one Reeflo Dart/Snapper Hybrid that I chose for it's efficiency/power consumption in the performance range that I need. This pump also comes with a second impeller that can be swapped out to reduce performance but save on power consumption. So my plan was to try this one and hopefully find it good enough to meet my needs and then buy a second one for the close loop and then I'd be able to keep a third spare that would work for either. But first I have to try it and see.

First test. Close loop. Works great, no leaks, water moves like crazy, Wilson the goldfish loves it.

Second test. Return pump. Here is how the test works. Sump always has the same starting level water line height. I put a piece of tape on the main display to mark the test starting water level (somewhere around the middle). I start the pump and timer and run the pump for 30 seconds. I measure the water level increase and because I know the gallons per inch in my tank I can interpolate the result to 1 hour or pump gph.

So I found my dart to pump 2,244 gph at 7'1" which is inline with the advertised spec. But this was way more than I wanted. My skimmer supposedly does 425 gph and to move over 2000 gallons up and down constantly seemed like a waste of money so I swapped in the smaller Snapper impeller. Then I got 2103 gph at 6'11". I then connected up my return manifold and it dropped to 1683 gph. This is even better than advertised. But I was looking for about 1000 gph. At one thousand I would have 5x the main display turnover per hour and more than 2x better than the advertised skimmer gph. So my plan falls through and I have to go back to pump research and find myself another smaller pump. The other problem I found was that the pump was sucking 150 Watts (Snapper impeller) whereas it is advertised to consume only 100 watts at that head height. This is disappointing.

Having trouble finding another pump I finally settle on the DC pumps by Speedwave. I went with the SWDC2640 which should give me about 1900 gph at 6'10" (according to spec) but it has 6 speed settings so I figure I'll just turn it down to my wanted 1000 gph and have power left over... Pump arrives, more pump test.

I ran the same test as the Reeflo multiple times but I found the Speedwave to deliver only 947 gph which is close enough to my wanted 1000 gph but very far from the advertised spec of 1900 gph at this head height. The power consumption is 90 Watts which isn't too far from the advertised 85W.

Other thoughts on this pump. It has worked so far, power consumption is good. But the quality of the item is not in the same class as the Reeflo. It just looks cheap. And, I don't know how their engineers came up with their specs but I think they need to review their methods. However to be fair, it is also not in the same price range as the Reeflo.

 

[dawatson69]

Looking good.

 

[Pushwood]

I appreciate threads like this with lots of pictures! I know, call me a child.

This is looking like a great set up so far, can't wait to see how this shapes out.

 

[canyousee]

You may be an engineer put you have some wicked good plumbing skills,even if your thread connectors leaked at first. Love the y adapters idea,looks like spa flex the only way to go,so much easier than PVC. Have to say I was not ready to see pumps hanging in mid air.. Thanks again for the up dates