LaCl Reactor
- Thread starter insomniac2k2
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insomniac2k2
Active member
Not necessarily overthinking this, but I fear that you would run into issues with the water skimming portion of this. You would probably often overskim or underskim the precipitated Phosphates until you really got the design nailed down. I chose to let my skimmer do that job directly.
The flow design is good. That's essentially what you do when you run the BRS insert (like you said). Although, I have not found it necessary to do so yet.
I've posted it before, but I feel that the single most important add to my present design, would be to implement a type of a spray bar. This would keep the water a little more torrid. Thus reducing channeling of water, and allowing more contact time. Your design would have a similar effect.
The flow design is good. That's essentially what you do when you run the BRS insert (like you said). Although, I have not found it necessary to do so yet.
I've posted it before, but I feel that the single most important add to my present design, would be to implement a type of a spray bar. This would keep the water a little more torrid. Thus reducing channeling of water, and allowing more contact time. Your design would have a similar effect.
Didn't get the WC done today. Tested about 10pm tonight. Up again to .1248. Not sure what is going on?! It's been about 2 weeks since I changed out my GFO so that may be the problem...I'll check later today. Going to change to 15 on every 7 mins 45 secs now. {Will test right before WC and then after WC to see if there's much of a change (I'd rather doubt it).} The last/first time I did 15 on every 7mins 45 secs I went from .1156 down to .0547 in 3 days so I suspect by the time I test later today before the WC, the PO should be down to .10**
insomniac2k2
Active member
There are a few things that could be going on here. If you are using GFO, IMO you shouldn't be. Not with a LaCl3 reactor at least. The nature of the reactor is to be a replacement to GFO. If your GFO is doing its job, it's not allowing the LC to do its job. If it isn't doing its job, it's likely leeching phosphates back into your water. You may want to pull your GFO offline for a bit to make sure that you aren't inadvertently causing any skew.
The second and most important part is what I think that you are seeing. Your dosage is simply too low. I have half your water volume, and i'm dosing double, just to see minor shifts is phosphates. That said; all tanks will produce different phosphate levels due to efficiency and bioload.
The third thing is the phosphate reader. I like my hanna, but I trust it very little. I have also had .05 variations between batches of reagents. My meter put me through hell while i was chasing the magical unicorn of phosphates in the past. Just to find out that I had a bad batch. Their lack luster quality control and terrible packet design is well.....as stated. All they have to do is make long, slender tube packages that you tear the top off of, and the problem would be solved. I would recommend it to them, but im sure they have heard it from others.
The second and most important part is what I think that you are seeing. Your dosage is simply too low. I have half your water volume, and i'm dosing double, just to see minor shifts is phosphates. That said; all tanks will produce different phosphate levels due to efficiency and bioload.
The third thing is the phosphate reader. I like my hanna, but I trust it very little. I have also had .05 variations between batches of reagents. My meter put me through hell while i was chasing the magical unicorn of phosphates in the past. Just to find out that I had a bad batch. Their lack luster quality control and terrible packet design is well.....as stated. All they have to do is make long, slender tube packages that you tear the top off of, and the problem would be solved. I would recommend it to them, but im sure they have heard it from others.
Thank you Insomniac!!!! I questioned in my head why GFO would be used but I am pretty sure I saw that the reactor was being used...so it wasn't you! :0) I just turned the GFO off!! So, you are NOT running GFO correct?
I did the WC today and did ALOT of testing...here's my results:
PO BEFORE WC: .09132
" AFTER " : .0700 (WC amount guesstimate: 12-15gallons)
Present dosing rate : 000:00/000:15/007:45
Also, after the WC and letting the reactor run for about 2 hours, I tested the PO coming out: .04566 So, yes. It is/was very probable that the PO was being released back into the tank
I am going to continue checking the PO for the next 3 days and possibly every day until my next WC. I think that will help me "calm down" as I now just feel that I have a handle on the level...a good starting point because of the water change.
I definitely agree with your second point, Insomniac :0) This week should get me to my desired level/range. What range do you shoot for? I'd like .04-.05 but I'm unsure if it's a safe range for coral growth/health and, so that I don't have/get unreacted LC in the tank...
I agree with the Hanna meters and reagents Actually with ALL testers (refractometers, Hanna Checkers...) and test kits (Salifert, Elos, Red Sea, API...) I have a hard time trusting!! It's a shame that the laboratory meters/testers are such that we cannot afford them!! We care so much about the fish, corals and inverts we take care of... I found some very small funnels that work great for dumping the reagents into...they fit right inside the cuvettes :0) I use those so I'm sure I get all the reagent in :0) I found them in Bed, Bath and Beyond (where they keep the spatula's, etc)
Thanks again for being so patient with me and helpful Insomniac!! How's the tang doing? :0)
I did the WC today and did ALOT of testing...here's my results:
PO BEFORE WC: .09132
" AFTER " : .0700 (WC amount guesstimate: 12-15gallons)
Present dosing rate : 000:00/000:15/007:45
Also, after the WC and letting the reactor run for about 2 hours, I tested the PO coming out: .04566 So, yes. It is/was very probable that the PO was being released back into the tank
I am going to continue checking the PO for the next 3 days and possibly every day until my next WC. I think that will help me "calm down" as I now just feel that I have a handle on the level...a good starting point because of the water change.
I definitely agree with your second point, Insomniac :0) This week should get me to my desired level/range. What range do you shoot for? I'd like .04-.05 but I'm unsure if it's a safe range for coral growth/health and, so that I don't have/get unreacted LC in the tank...
I agree with the Hanna meters and reagents
Actually with ALL testers (refractometers, Hanna Checkers...) and test kits (Salifert, Elos, Red Sea, API...) I have a hard time trusting!! It's a shame that the laboratory meters/testers are such that we cannot afford them!! We care so much about the fish, corals and inverts we take care of... I found some very small funnels that work great for dumping the reagents into...they fit right inside the cuvettes :0) I use those so I'm sure I get all the reagent in :0) I found them in Bed, Bath and Beyond (where they keep the spatula's, etc)Thanks again for being so patient with me and helpful Insomniac!! How's the tang doing? :0)
insomniac2k2
Active member
Yes, I have not run GFO for quite some time. I have no need for it at this point in time. My safe rage is anywhere near .07. I have not experienced any extra coral growth with lower phosphate levels. No sense in poking the honey badger IMO.
The tang seems to be doing great. He is a sassy little thing. And an absolutely beautiful fish. He has finished his hypo, and is on his way back up the salinity hike. I will be moving into my new house in a few weeks, so he will be introduced into his new tank during the move. It should be a stressful time for both of us!
The tang seems to be doing great. He is a sassy little thing. And an absolutely beautiful fish. He has finished his hypo, and is on his way back up the salinity hike. I will be moving into my new house in a few weeks, so he will be introduced into his new tank during the move. It should be a stressful time for both of us!
Thanks for giving me your safe point. It will take me some time to find my range but I tend to watch the corals and fish ALL the TIME!! LOL
Tested about 5pm and the result is .04566 :0) That's quite a large drop since the water change Now, another question. I have been dosing vinegar for ages...well over a year. It's been awhile since I tested nitrates as they were running 0 (API) and I doubt that. Anyway, Should I stop using vinegar now? Also, can I begin to feed more?
Tested about 5pm and the result is .04566 :0) That's quite a large drop since the water change
Now, another question. I have been dosing vinegar for ages...well over a year. It's been awhile since I tested nitrates as they were running 0 (API) and I doubt that. Anyway, Should I stop using vinegar now? Also, can I begin to feed more?
insomniac2k2
Active member
I posted a few pictures back in the thread. Mine is in a very confined area, so a pretty picture is not going to happen.
Your best reference is the original diagram and explanation.
I just love the purple tangs Insomniac!! So yours' is a corker, huh? I'm sure it is going to like its new home :0) And you, your NEW home!! Congrats!
Tested tonight. PO is at .0365. Yesterday it was .0456 so it's down about .01 That's a little lower than I feel comfortable with. Suggestion?Currently dosing 15 seconds every 8 minutes & 45 seconds. What if I tried dosing only for 10 seconds? Or dose 15 seconds every 9 minutes?
Tested tonight. PO is at .0365. Yesterday it was .0456 so it's down about .01 That's a little lower than I feel comfortable with. Suggestion?Currently dosing 15 seconds every 8 minutes & 45 seconds. What if I tried dosing only for 10 seconds? Or dose 15 seconds every 9 minutes?
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insomniac2k2
Active member
That's a reasonable reduction, but I'd consider stopping dosing for 2 days to get an idea on how fast you climb. If you don't want to stop dosing, sounds like its time to over feed!
insomniac2k2
Active member
From how quickly your dropping, it seems that your GFO was definitely suspect for leeching phosphates back into your water. Unless of course your test kits are lieing to you.
Is there a reason for dosing the 15 seconds? At 10 seconds, that would be less LC :0)
When I dosed 000:015/007:45 the PO dropped ALOT. With the 000:015/008:45 it dropped just a smidge :0) So it seems that the 15 secs every 8 mins & 45 seconds could be the maintenance dose... So really my question is since the PO is at .0365 tonight and I'd like to keep the range .04-.05, do I leave the dose where it's at? Feed a little more? I just don't want it to drop more overnight....
When I dosed 000:015/007:45 the PO dropped ALOT. With the 000:015/008:45 it dropped just a smidge :0) So it seems that the 15 secs every 8 mins & 45 seconds could be the maintenance dose... So really my question is since the PO is at .0365 tonight and I'd like to keep the range .04-.05, do I leave the dose where it's at? Feed a little more? I just don't want it to drop more overnight....
Just saw this Insomniac
I didn't think about stopping to see how quick it rises :facepalm: That sounds like a plan :thumbsup: I just finished feeding the corals as I thought that might help it from dropping more over night. I will stop dosing at midnight...test again for the baseline and then test again at midnight tomorrow:lol2:When are you moving in to your new home? Are you getting a larger tank too? :fish2:
insomniac2k2
Active member
Ouch! Tested at 12:30 and the PO was .10ish... I fed the corals at 10:30 so that was 2 hours ago!
It seems crazy that hour numbers could rise so quickly. How long after you fed did you test?
Do I have a bad batch of reagents or what??!! I just tested at 10:15pm and the result was .09132 That would be a drop from midnight's test but only by a smidge. I'm going to summarize my results since starting the dosing to see if we can figure this out!
7/16 .0669
7/18 15 sec every 14:45 mins
7/20 .079
7/21 15 sec every 7:45 mins
7/22 .1156
7/24 .0547 ----dosing stopped
7/25 .082
15 sec every 9:45 mins
7/26 .0882
7/27 .0943
7/29 .0913
15 sec every 8:45
7/30 .09132----WC @ 12-15g estimate
.0700-----result after WC
7/31 .04566
8/1 .03652----- corals feeding about 10:30pm
8/2 .1095 @ 12:30 AM!!!
.09132 @ 10:15PM {drop of .0182)
7/16 .0669
7/18 15 sec every 14:45 mins
7/20 .079
7/21 15 sec every 7:45 mins
7/22 .1156
7/24 .0547 ----dosing stopped
7/25 .082
15 sec every 9:45 mins
7/26 .0882
7/27 .0943
7/29 .0913
15 sec every 8:45
7/30 .09132----WC @ 12-15g estimate
.0700-----result after WC
7/31 .04566
8/1 .03652----- corals feeding about 10:30pm
8/2 .1095 @ 12:30 AM!!!
.09132 @ 10:15PM {drop of .0182)
Ouch! Tested at 12:30 and the PO was .10ish... I fed the corals at 10:30 so that was 2 hours ago!
I suspect that testing variances/errors are accounting for most of the fluctuations you are seeing. Looks like most of your readings are between .07 and .10, which is well within the best-case accuracy range of the Hanna checker of about +/- 0.015. Personally, I wouldn't worry so much about changes from hour to hour, or even day to day, but would rather monitor changes over a period of weeks to get a better idea of the trend you are establishing. Short term testing would be helpful to make sure you aren't dropping too fast, but for determining your maintenance level you would be much better off looking at a longer time frame (my opinion, of course). Remember, with LaCl the tortoise is going to beat the hare every time
