LaCl Reactor
- Thread starter insomniac2k2
- Start date
I definitely like the thoracentesis cath! I sure hope it works! :0) I know some of the problems that I'm having is caused from the high bacteria count. Tonight I had about a gallon of water somehow and somewhere leak out and into the plastic box that holds the reactors. The filter was saturated with precip and there was alot of bacteria in the filter, canisters, fittings and tubing. I don't know if the bacteria coating everything could be causing the solution to dwell at the "T" and thus causing the clogging? I have turned off the vinegar for now. I'm still trying to find the right amount of vinegar to dose and then hopefully I won't have all that bacteria causing problems with the LaCl setup ;0)
Just be patient
My pride and joy is splitting so it has to finish and recover. I'm not the fastest person anymore
They will come:beer:
_shorty_
New member
I'm also curious. Have you gotten your dosing amounts dialed in? If so, what are you using, and how are your PO4 test results?
I'm currently still waiting on my dosing pump/motors in the mail.. from China.. and it's KILLING me on how long it's taking. It's okay, I'm waiting on new PO4 test reagents anyway.
I'm currently still waiting on my dosing pump/motors in the mail.. from China.. and it's KILLING me on how long it's taking. It's okay, I'm waiting on new PO4 test reagents anyway.
awais98
SPS
It is working pretty ok for me, no problems till now. It seems like in a few days time I will have to change the filter floss.
Sump water is definitely entering the skimmer inlet. The flow in the LaCl2 is low..... and the skimmer pump is about 250-300 GPH.
Im not sure if I am done dialling in.
Well, currently Ive been dosing about 1.2 ml of LaCl2 per day. Ive diluted it 1:20 and dose about 24 ml 24 times a day.
I took a gallon container... added about 3800 ml RODI water and 200 ml of LaCl2, mixed it, so the concentration is 1:20 and I drip it as above 24 ml on 24 hours.
My phos I checked went down to about 0.05ppm.... and then I put some gfo in a media bag and threw it in 2 days ago, will check phos again soon.
Im also thinking about vodka/vinegar dosing also.
I used to do bipellets for a year, didnt seems lt did not thing at all. My nitrates alwys been 0 likley due to DSB and phos wouldnt go low with biopellets, so thats out.
Once I have the phos stay low like currently...Ill tinker with vodka/vinegar dosing...
_shorty_
New member
If nitrates are truly 0 , then the biopellets may have not been able to do thier job - as the bacterial colony need the nitrogen to populate, and in turn pull down the PO4 levels. I assume you'd reach the same limitations with any other carbon dosing, unless you were to dose a nitrogen source too.
insomniac2k2
Active member
So nice to see people still rolling with my idea 
You would say that im FINALLY feeling like i may start having some free time to get going on phase 2 of this plan. Well technically, i just need to put my reactor setup back online, but my snafu is that im now running an external skimmer. So running the treated water directly into my skimmer inlet will have to change in design a bit.
And now that everything leaves my new tank and out the garage wall, im thinking about remotely locating everything out there (so far, just the skimmer).
As a side note. I left all reactors offline since moving. Nitrates are still 0. Phosphates are insane atm. 2.7! For those that think that sps simply cannot live in high phosphates, well...I'm not sure that I agree. Although i can say that one of my colonies is starting to look a little ugly. It's sister colony, which is higher in the tank (getting a lot more light) is still in great shape. So im inclined to believe that its the light, more than the phosphate level.
Oh, and I think my Green BTA split due to poor water quality. Heh. Bonus.
Anyway, cleanup time is coming in the next few weeks. I should have some reactor pictures to post then.
Hope your doing well Terri!
You would say that im FINALLY feeling like i may start having some free time to get going on phase 2 of this plan. Well technically, i just need to put my reactor setup back online, but my snafu is that im now running an external skimmer. So running the treated water directly into my skimmer inlet will have to change in design a bit.
And now that everything leaves my new tank and out the garage wall, im thinking about remotely locating everything out there (so far, just the skimmer).
As a side note. I left all reactors offline since moving. Nitrates are still 0. Phosphates are insane atm. 2.7! For those that think that sps simply cannot live in high phosphates, well...I'm not sure that I agree. Although i can say that one of my colonies is starting to look a little ugly. It's sister colony, which is higher in the tank (getting a lot more light) is still in great shape. So im inclined to believe that its the light, more than the phosphate level.
Oh, and I think my Green BTA split due to poor water quality. Heh. Bonus.
Anyway, cleanup time is coming in the next few weeks. I should have some reactor pictures to post then.
Hope your doing well Terri!
_shorty_
New member
good to hear an update. I've been toying with this a bit... but haven't been able to do much serious testing yet. Still waiting on my cheap dosing pumps :mad2: ... so just been playing with a drip setup so far.
Insomniac, I'd like to hear your opinion on my first stage previously posted - as to whether you think the extra water movement is worth the water displacement caused by the extra piping inside? I'm struggling with what's more important: water volume or reaction time. However, with the first stage, I should be able to bump up flow through the reactor a little bit to provide more fresh unreacted water.
Your mention of a new skimmer makes me remember some thoughts I was working through about adding an additional DIY skimmer. I'd like to hear other's thoughts. Typically skimmers you want a certain amount of flow through the skimmer to skim the entire system - and lots of opinions on how inefficient/ineffective these are unless they are certain height, etc, etc..
What about a low flow skimmer (only the flow through the reactor) setup specifically for this purpose of catching any precipitate that makes it through (or if carbon dosing into this reactor exporting bacteria sluff off). It may not be worth it. It may not be necessary as I know some people's opinions seem to be that the filter floss does the job... but if that's the case, why feed directly into a skimmer in the first place anyway. I probalby wouldn't even be thinking about it, but I question the effectiveness of my own skimmer to pull out any extra precipitate with the added flow of the original feed pump to the skimmer.
Insomniac, I'd like to hear your opinion on my first stage previously posted - as to whether you think the extra water movement is worth the water displacement caused by the extra piping inside? I'm struggling with what's more important: water volume or reaction time. However, with the first stage, I should be able to bump up flow through the reactor a little bit to provide more fresh unreacted water.
Your mention of a new skimmer makes me remember some thoughts I was working through about adding an additional DIY skimmer. I'd like to hear other's thoughts. Typically skimmers you want a certain amount of flow through the skimmer to skim the entire system - and lots of opinions on how inefficient/ineffective these are unless they are certain height, etc, etc..
What about a low flow skimmer (only the flow through the reactor) setup specifically for this purpose of catching any precipitate that makes it through (or if carbon dosing into this reactor exporting bacteria sluff off). It may not be worth it. It may not be necessary as I know some people's opinions seem to be that the filter floss does the job... but if that's the case, why feed directly into a skimmer in the first place anyway. I probalby wouldn't even be thinking about it, but I question the effectiveness of my own skimmer to pull out any extra precipitate with the added flow of the original feed pump to the skimmer.
insomniac2k2
Active member
I like what you did with the first phase, but i do wonder if it will be too much water displacement. PVC is very thick and cumbersome as compared to pre-molded things such as the BRS GFO container. That said, the design looks solid.
You said this is the first stage. What is the second stage?
I just want to note my opinion on dwell and reaction time. I do feel strongly that dwell time is very important. This is why i keep my flow rate pretty slow. That said, I feel that the introduction of turbulence is very important. This will force water and introduced LaCl3 to take unpredictable paths, thus enabling better reaction overall.
The way the holes in your PVC are may help with that. Idealy, i'd try to find a way that you will ensure that the LC reaches the backside of the cylinder as much as the front (where the inlet is).
A recirculating skimmer would be awesome for making sure there is enough dwell time. That's also part of my 2.0 plan.
I have some ideas for 2.0, but I will spare sharing them until implementation
You said this is the first stage. What is the second stage?
I just want to note my opinion on dwell and reaction time. I do feel strongly that dwell time is very important. This is why i keep my flow rate pretty slow. That said, I feel that the introduction of turbulence is very important. This will force water and introduced LaCl3 to take unpredictable paths, thus enabling better reaction overall.
The way the holes in your PVC are may help with that. Idealy, i'd try to find a way that you will ensure that the LC reaches the backside of the cylinder as much as the front (where the inlet is).
A recirculating skimmer would be awesome for making sure there is enough dwell time. That's also part of my 2.0 plan.
I have some ideas for 2.0, but I will spare sharing them until implementation
_shorty_
New member
I like what you did with the first phase, but i do wonder if it will be too much water displacement. PVC is very thick and cumbersome as compared to pre-molded things such as the BRS GFO container. That said, the design looks solid.
You said this is the first stage. What is the second stage?
I just want to note my opinion on dwell and reaction time. I do feel strongly that dwell time is very important. This is why i keep my flow rate pretty slow. That said, I feel that the introduction of turbulence is very important. This will force water and introduced LaCl3 to take unpredictable paths, thus enabling better reaction overall.
The way the holes in your PVC are may help with that. Idealy, i'd try to find a way that you will ensure that the LC reaches the backside of the cylinder as much as the front (where the inlet is).
A recirculating skimmer would be awesome for making sure there is enough dwell time. That's also part of my 2.0 plan.
I have some ideas for 2.0, but I will spare sharing them until implementation
I appreciate your thoughts on dwell/reaction times.
2nd stage is like yours - same instert that goes into a BRS reactor stuffed with Poly-fill sandwiching a couple inches of activated carbon - packed in as tight as I can get it. Curently that feeds the inlet of my skimmer pump.
How would you implement a recirculating skimmer? Initially I thought of putting it as a first stage to increase water volume, but I was concerned that the backpressure from the filterfloss would change over time and create issues keeping any skimmer flow tuned in..
insomniac2k2
Active member
I was thinking about just dumping the output right into the bubble chamber. And if that doesnt work do to inconsistencies, I would probably T off of the feed line for the skimmer and run a 1 way valve. Back pressure from the filter floss and backpressure from the skimmer water inlet would definitely be an issue to consider!
Dwell and reaction time are definitely the key along with catching the precip. There are 3 issues that I continue to fight: first, the blockage at the "T" - second, the filter or filter floss chamber clogging (more to follow) and third, the sluff/bacteria also causing a reduction and/or blockage of flow , usually occuring at the filter/floss reactor.
I really like using the 5 micron sediment filter! They are cheap and replacement is a breeze. The issues I found were that due to high PO4 levels, the filter clogged within 3 days. The other issue was that the filter often times clogged prematurely because of the large amount of bacteria (sluff) from carbon dosing (vinegar). If I ever get to where the "T" doesn't block from the LaCl precip and, alot less bacteria/sluff, then I will use the sediment filters again as they should last alot longer (just a guesstimation at this point). Before I started carbon dosing at a much higher level and before the "T" issue started, the sediment filter lasted a month plus (if I remember correctly). The current issue I'm having with the filter floss is how tightly to pack it. As Insomniac suggested packing it very tightly, I did that...so much so that flow was at a dribble :9( I did that 3 different times1 LOL One time I got the floss just right :0) Tonight I dealt with the blocked "T" and, the bacteria/sluff was so thick at the bottom of the floss and media holder, only about 1/3 of the floss had precip in it. Others may or may not have the problems that I have, hopefully not :0)
Shorty, I do not think it is necessary to have a skimmer specifically for the LaCl IMO.
I really like using the 5 micron sediment filter! They are cheap and replacement is a breeze. The issues I found were that due to high PO4 levels, the filter clogged within 3 days. The other issue was that the filter often times clogged prematurely because of the large amount of bacteria (sluff) from carbon dosing (vinegar). If I ever get to where the "T" doesn't block from the LaCl precip and, alot less bacteria/sluff, then I will use the sediment filters again as they should last alot longer (just a guesstimation at this point). Before I started carbon dosing at a much higher level and before the "T" issue started, the sediment filter lasted a month plus (if I remember correctly). The current issue I'm having with the filter floss is how tightly to pack it. As Insomniac suggested packing it very tightly, I did that...so much so that flow was at a dribble :9( I did that 3 different times1 LOL One time I got the floss just right :0) Tonight I dealt with the blocked "T" and, the bacteria/sluff was so thick at the bottom of the floss and media holder, only about 1/3 of the floss had precip in it. Others may or may not have the problems that I have, hopefully not :0)
Shorty, I do not think it is necessary to have a skimmer specifically for the LaCl IMO.
_shorty_
New member
Thanks Terri Ann, I'd kind of wondered about using a 5 micron sedament filter and how quickly one would clog up. Before - I thought I read you were using a filter sock... which is why I was curious how you implemented it into your design. Are you able to clean the sedament filter, or you just have to replace it? That seems costly in the long run if you can't clean it....
insomniac2k2
Active member
To chime in a bit on the sediment filter thing...I think you should give it a try and see if it works for you. You can get them in bulk for less then 2 bucks a piece (from what i recall). Terri seems to BURN through LC like it's going out of style. Something tells me that Terri LOVES to feed her fish a LOT
You will definitely save money with the filter floss, but you cannot get the "guaranteed" 5 micron size. And if it only cost 2 bucks a month, it may be worth considering!
Although, i'd say that the good part about using filter floss is that you can carbon pack the top. I feel that this is definitely an added benefit!
Try everything. That's my motto!
You will definitely save money with the filter floss, but you cannot get the "guaranteed" 5 micron size. And if it only cost 2 bucks a month, it may be worth considering!
Although, i'd say that the good part about using filter floss is that you can carbon pack the top. I feel that this is definitely an added benefit!
Try everything. That's my motto!
I continue to use a 5 micron sock ( http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/bagfilters.php) at the water outlet which is placed just above the skimmer intake. I use the sock more for precaution than anything, I think. The sock will begin to fill partially with water after a period of time from particulates and thus gives a dwell/reaction time if any LC is unreacted when it reaches that point (probably just 'wishful' thinking though).
The 5 micron (RO) sediment filter cannot be cleaned but it's easy to change out and pretty cheap. I have had the entire sediment filter become full from the reacted PO4 :0)
The 5 micron (RO) sediment filter cannot be cleaned but it's easy to change out and pretty cheap. I have had the entire sediment filter become full from the reacted PO4 :0)
To chime in a bit on the sediment filter thing...I think you should give it a try and see if it works for you. You can get them in bulk for less then 2 bucks a piece (from what i recall). Terri seems to BURN through LC like it's going out of style. Something tells me that Terri LOVES to feed her fish a LOT
You will definitely save money with the filter floss, but you cannot get the "guaranteed" 5 micron size. And if it only cost 2 bucks a month, it may be worth considering!
Although, i'd say that the good part about using filter floss is that you can carbon pack the top. I feel that this is definitely an added benefit!
Try everything. That's my motto!
Now, Now Insomniac, Play Nice!:lol: Yes, I have gone through LC like it's going out of style. I do LOVE to feed my fish but I don't think it's ALOT:rolleye1: They are healthy and long-lived I must say:thumbsup: I just have an overstocked tank :facepalm: It's not "my" fault that Dori and FoxyFace could be a nice meal for a family:eek1: :wave:
awais98
SPS
LaCl Reactor
Sorry for the late reply,
You definitely have a point about zero nitrate and any carbon dosing not working.
I stopped biopellets abt 2 weeks ago and started vodka dosing 3 days ago and will see.
Adding nitrate source???? Lol I'd rather take that deep sand bed out one day... And nitrate will begin to climb. The longer I have this dsb the more I don't like the sand storm and the rocks covered with sand. Hate it.
Also I did note when the floss got old about 15-20 days I would feel sediments on the glass wall of the dt. Changed the floss and it's much less. Off note it did not harm my yellow tang or hippo at all.
I'm also going to look Into a 5 micron filter cartridge and if it's priced right would just use that in the 2nd chamber instead of the floss......
Sorry for the late reply,
You definitely have a point about zero nitrate and any carbon dosing not working.
I stopped biopellets abt 2 weeks ago and started vodka dosing 3 days ago and will see.
Adding nitrate source???? Lol I'd rather take that deep sand bed out one day... And nitrate will begin to climb. The longer I have this dsb the more I don't like the sand storm and the rocks covered with sand. Hate it.
Also I did note when the floss got old about 15-20 days I would feel sediments on the glass wall of the dt. Changed the floss and it's much less. Off note it did not harm my yellow tang or hippo at all.
I'm also going to look Into a 5 micron filter cartridge and if it's priced right would just use that in the 2nd chamber instead of the floss......
