Learning/rebuilding from my epic fail

[reefmutt]

Google Donovan's denitrator, it is a thread here in diy , to see what it is exactly. I use it generally for increased bacteria population. I have noticed that only with increased bacteria population, I have very little film algae onto the glass. Before the reactor even with 0 po4, with Hanna 736, I have to clean the glass every 3-4 days. With optimum denitrator usage = splitting doses of 1ml carbon through out the day, without gfo and po4 between 0,15-0,2 I have to clean the glass most of the time every 6 days, so something good was happening in there last month after the summer vacations , i started to clean more often the glass, even every other day, and small patches of cyano reappeared. So I thought to increase the dosages of 1 ml carbon from 7to 9 and dose some nano3 to increase bacteria population and bring down po4 and reduce cyano and frequency of film algae cleaning.

PS Today morning I dosed 5ml nano3, and I thing I am seeing now i am home,some more cyano, so maybe I should reconsider the above strategy[emoji15]

Cyano has a bloody life of its own. I don't have a lot of patience for it. I probably won't wait too long before I treat mine..
I find that if you wait too long, it sets up its own ecosystem and skews the whole system it is in.
I prefer to kill it early before it establishes itself..
Curious to see if the added no3 helps pull down your p..

 

[slavetonet]

Cyano has a bloody life of its own. I don't have a lot of patience for it. I probably won't wait too long before I treat mine..
I find that if you wait too long, it sets up its own ecosystem and skews the whole system it is in.
I prefer to kill it early before it establishes itself..
Curious to see if the added no3 helps pull down your p..

Do you know why you are getting cyano in the first place?
The time I got it is when I just finished the 14 days cycle.
From NO3 of 100+ppm and PO4 of 0.38ppm to ULNS in 3 days - without any water change at all.
I think you want to look carefully at your actual organic balance in your system.
Peel back all the layers of cheatos, mechanical filtration and whatever else you have going on to control your nutrients.
Objectively see your input and output of nutrients with rate of tank water turnover ratio.

Anyway I have ramble on too much now. :debi:

 

[Wally.B]

Cyano has a bloody life of its own. I don't have a lot of patience for it. I probably won't wait too long before I treat mine..
I find that if you wait too long, it sets up its own ecosystem and skews the whole system it is in.
I prefer to kill it early before it establishes itself..
Curious to see if the added no3 helps pull down your p..

I've had my share of Cyano days.
Learned never to blow the stuff off the rocks EVER!! or it can spread like wildfire. (In this case if was also too much RED LED lights/Nutrients Leaching out of new rocks).

So best it to Siphon EARLY PATCHES out of tank, and not spread around.

Since then I always treat with a mix of (Zeovit Zeobak in Coral Snow), and if not good enough I use (Zeovit Cyano Clean in Coral Snow).
Either product is soaked in Coral Snow (for 5 mins), and then dosed into tank for overnight treatment. (Daily till Cyano disappears)
Works best at first sign of Cyano. (Did this last week, and Cyano gone).

 

[slavetonet]

I've had my share of Cyano days.
Learned never to blow the stuff off the rocks EVER!! or it can spread like wildfire. (In this case if was also too much RED LED lights/Nutrients Leaching out of new rocks).

So best it to Siphon EARLY PATCHES out of tank, and not spread around.

Since then I always treat with a mix of (Zeovit Zeobak in Coral Snow), and if not good enough I use (Zeovit Cyano Clean in Coral Snow).
Either product is soaked in Coral Snow (for 5 mins), and then dosed into tank for overnight treatment. (Daily till Cyano disappears)
Works best at first sign of Cyano. (Did this last week, and Cyano gone).

I don't know what you are doing to make them stay.
I have done 3 of my recent tanks and don't have issues even when it break out, I know what to fix it with.
End of the day, it is a bacteria form, best way is have other desirable bacteria to out compete it.

 

[Wally.B]

End of the day, it is a bacteria form, best way is have other desirable bacteria to out compete it.

That's exactly what treating with ZeoBak or Cyanoclean is all about. It's just quicker at the start.
I assume there are other cheaper more natural ways to achieve this.
Especially in a Larger Tanks where the products are not cost effective.

 

[reefmutt]

Do you know why you are getting cyano in the first place?
The time I got it is when I just finished the 14 days cycle.
From NO3 of 100+ppm and PO4 of 0.38ppm to ULNS in 3 days - without any water change at all.
I think you want to look carefully at your actual organic balance in your system.
Peel back all the layers of cheatos, mechanical filtration and whatever else you have going on to control your nutrients.
Objectively see your input and output of nutrients with rate of tank water turnover ratio.

Anyway I have ramble on too much now. :debi:

Do I know why I got cyano?
I would assume it has to do with my no3 and amino additions after my nutrient reduction.
Personally, I don't believe there is a unified theory as to why cyano shows up, nor a nutrient ratio that will actually cause it. There are just too many variables and chemical processes going on in a reef to pinpoint any one cause.
I'm not sure I know what "˜peel back the layers of cheato, mechanical filtration and whatever else you have going on to control your nutrients.
Objectively see your input and output of nutrients with rate of tank water turnover ratio."˜ means..
Once my fluconazole treatment is done, I will do a good clean out of detritus in my frag tank and fuge, removal as much cyano as I can from the frag rack and add some carbon. In the mean time, my cheato will be working out a new balance now that the bryopsis is gone.
If the cyano remains with my aminos and no3 additions stopped, I will does a slime remover... or maybe try wally's Method of zeobak and coral snow.. although I already use AF's version of coral snow- Build..

 

[slavetonet]

Do I know why I got cyano?
I would assume it has to do with my no3 and amino additions after my nutrient reduction.
Personally, I don't believe there is a unified theory as to why cyano shows up, nor a nutrient ratio that will actually cause it. There are just too many variables and chemical processes going on in a reef to pinpoint any one cause.
I'm not sure I know what "˜peel back the layers of cheato, mechanical filtration and whatever else you have going on to control your nutrients.
Objectively see your input and output of nutrients with rate of tank water turnover ratio."˜ means..
Once my fluconazole treatment is done, I will do a good clean out of detritus in my frag tank and fuge, removal as much cyano as I can from the frag rack and add some carbon. In the mean time, my cheato will be working out a new balance now that the bryopsis is gone.
If the cyano remains with my aminos and no3 additions stopped, I will does a slime remover... or maybe try wally's Method of zeobak and coral snow.. although I already use AF's version of coral snow- Build..

I didn't know you are doing the fluconazole treatment.
That is your source of problem with the bryopsis dying and short burst of nutrients explosion. Which it happened to me on my previous tank when I did the same treatment.
It will go away naturally in about 1 month if you left your cheatos to their job.

I do believe there is a good ratio of N to stay within to keep the tank looking clean. 22:1 is the magic number that I have come up with after many trial and error. Corals really pump hard with growth and colours if I am feeding that ratio. Which doesn't cause algae bloom issues.

 

[reefmutt]

I think i will let the cheato do its thing and not mess with no3 for a while..
Ill see where n goes... i expect it'll drop back down to next to nothing.. maybe ill just let it go this time..
maybe p will follow.. maybe not.
I haven't really just let the tank work itself out..
I'll do that this time..

 

[Scorpius]

Never had good luck with Chaeto or any macro algae. Got tired of the nutrient seesaw. Algae would grow like crazy and nitrate and phosphate would bottom out. Algae would die back and nitrate/phosphate would rise once again.

Not worth the parameter swings at the end of the day.

 

[Reefer40b]

Never had good luck with Chaeto or any macro algae. Got tired of the nutrient seesaw. Algae would grow like crazy and nitrate and phosphate would bottom out. Algae would die back and nitrate/phosphate would rise once again.

Not worth the parameter swings at the end of the day.

I find it more of a balance thing, dial back your lamp hrs on the cheato or use smaller amounts and pull out more growth more often until you find what your tank balance is...

 

[gregkn73]

I have experienced more than once chaeto growth stagnation but never died chaeto. IMO when chaeto die the cause is not the lack of nutrients but the lack of something I can not determine. I have a 20g plastic drum full with chaeto ,just a 6w lamp above it and sparingly fed, for amphipods propagation, and surprisingly chaeto is not dying, just not growing.

 

[Scorpius]

I find it more of a balance thing, dial back your lamp hrs on the cheato or use smaller amounts and pull out more growth more often until you find what your tank balance is...

Just another parameter to worry about. To each their own. Chaeto is a ticking parameter time bomb imo. I'd rather test for nitrate/phosphate and run some gfo and control my fish feedings and water changes.

 

[Alex Costa]

I haven't really just let the tank work itself out..
I'll do that this time..

I think that sometimes it's the best call.

 

[reefmutt]

I find it more of a balance thing, dial back your lamp hrs on the cheato or use smaller amounts and pull out more growth more often until you find what your tank balance is...

Agreed 100% - not sure pulling works unless you really reduce the quantity of cheato, but reducing photoperiod will certainly reduce its efficiency.

I have experienced more than once chaeto growth stagnation but never died chaeto. IMO when chaeto die the cause is not the lack of nutrients but the lack of something I can not determine. I have a 20g plastic drum full with chaeto ,just a 6w lamp above it and sparingly fed, for amphipods propagation, and surprisingly chaeto is not dying, just not growing.

Agreed also.. I don’t think it’s the nutrients (alone) that have an effect in cheato. Cheato, like zoox or any other plant (freshwater or marine or terrestrial need a group of nutrients/minerals to be happy- ones that I can think of: iron, zinc, manganese, potassium, iodine as well as n and p.. You’ll find these in almost all plant fertilizers...
Maybe plants from different environments have different requirements but I think some are universal..

Just another parameter to worry about. To each their own. Chaeto is a ticking parameter time bomb imo. I'd rather test for nitrate/phosphate and run some gfo and control my fish feedings and water changes.

To each their own, for sure.. I have never had success with carbon dosing. Or gfo usage for that matter.. And I’d say that Carbon/gfo usage is as much of a ticking time bomb and/or parameter swinger as any nutrient method, when not properly managed.. and I’d go further to say that cheato moves nutrients in a more gradual manner than gfo and Carbon. An like everything in reefing, once the balance is reached, easier to monitor/maintain.

I think that sometimes it's the best call.

Yes.. I will observe this time and watch for a while when n drops out. I won’t immediately reach for the nitrate bottles..

 

[Rakie]

Matt -- For me, cyano comes when my nutrients hit zero. It seems in my tank, nutrients allow more dominant life forms to take over where cyano normally would.

Every tank is different though, and one thing that surely seems to mess with cyano is heavy flow. I'm of the belief that 'too much flow' is a non-existent fairy tale. You could probably double your flow and see nothing but happy corals and fish developing muscle

 

[reefmutt]

Matt -- For me, cyano comes when my nutrients hit zero. It seems in my tank, nutrients allow more dominant life forms to take over where cyano normally would.

Every tank is different though, and one thing that surely seems to mess with cyano is heavy flow. I'm of the belief that 'too much flow' is a non-existent fairy tale. You could probably double your flow and see nothing but happy corals and fish developing muscle

I've never really nutrients at 0.. but n was pretty darn close when the cyano appeared. It isn't too bad, really and only in my frag tank. It isn't in the display at all.. and yes, my flow is not great in the frag tank. I might find another pump to add in there.
I have been dosing AF Build and Probio s nightly to copy Wally's recipes of zeobak and coral snow. It seem sort of stagnant. It isn't spreading or thriving right now..
I turned my skimmer back up as well over the past week. I'm sure 3 weeks of almost no skimming didn't help things, either.
I'll do a frag tank clean out and wc this weekend.
And maybe do some tests.. haven't tested anything but alk in a while. It has been steady between 6.7-7.

 

[Rakie]

There's a million ways to skin a Reef Matt, don't sweat the small stuff. Cyano comes and goes. Pests are what really should scare you -- If it's not AEFW, I wouldn't be too worried buddy

And since you were so keen on Fox Flame pics, here's my latest, and one from 2-3 weeks ago

(A few days ago)

(2-3 weeks ago)

 

[reefmutt]

There's a million ways to skin a Reef Matt, don't sweat the small stuff. Cyano comes and goes. Pests are what really should scare you -- If it's not AEFW, I wouldn't be too worried buddy

And since you were so keen on Fox Flame pics, here's my latest, and one from 2-3 weeks ago

(A few days ago)

(2-3 weeks ago)

Well, aefws, I've had in the tank for years.. no biggie. Peppermint shrimp control them very well.. only problem is after the hurricanes, I can't get them! I'll have to start using a baster to blow them off.

Anyways that fox Flame is on fire!! it's growing like crazy.

 

[Rakie]

Anyways that fox Flame is on fire!! it's growing like crazy.

ATI Essentials man, everything in my tank loves it.

 

[reefmutt]

Nice! It’s not so readily available in Canada..