wds21921
New member
Since we were talking about this the other evening at the picnic I thought it might make for a great discussion piece/review on here.
Take a look:
http://www.solarisled.com/
Take a look:
http://www.solarisled.com/
LED breakthrough, finally?
- Thread starter wds21921
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wds21921
New member
While the cost is out of most hobbysists range at this point, it's good to see that it's a viable solution?
With the added effects of lunar control, cloud cover, etc. it's not unusual that it would be so high starting out. I don't see there price dropping much if at all most likely, but competitors will be coming soon I expect.
With the added effects of lunar control, cloud cover, etc. it's not unusual that it would be so high starting out. I don't see there price dropping much if at all most likely, but competitors will be coming soon I expect.
kaptken
New member
it looks like a good fixture. it will be great to see one in a shop some day soon. it has pretty much all the features I had read about in other experimental models. but it looks like they will be the first comercial ones. good find.
you know how much i like LEDS... now if i can just find my roll of duct tape, i could maybe bundle all my LED flashlights together and see how it looks.
better LEDS are coming out all the time with better drivers. power is increasing per diode. maybe up to 140-180 lumens per, right now. which means we would need lots of them. but the focused lense makes it put more light into the tank, and thus need less output relative to lamps. which shine in every which direction.
you know how much i like LEDS... now if i can just find my roll of duct tape, i could maybe bundle all my LED flashlights together and see how it looks.
better LEDS are coming out all the time with better drivers. power is increasing per diode. maybe up to 140-180 lumens per, right now. which means we would need lots of them. but the focused lense makes it put more light into the tank, and thus need less output relative to lamps. which shine in every which direction.
Whoa! Equivalent to a 250W halide! and a 400W equivalent coming later this year.
Even with the (assumed) large initial cost, the savings in power, heat, and bulb changes really add up quick.
I mean, they are stating 50,000 hours out of this unit. HOLY CRAP - that's over 17-years at 8-hour/day, or over 10 years at 12-hours a day!!! I'm pretty sure that will last as long as my next tank :thumbsup:
I'm assuming they're using the 1W or 5W (I'd assume 5W as they're not using a ton of lights) Luxeon LEDs with reflectors and cullimnating (sp?) lenses - which are expensive to start with, but the integrated complete digital control of not only timing, but also color temperature - this thing is really blowing my mind :lol:
I'm going on an RC hunt to see what kinds of prices these are going to be
Even with the (assumed) large initial cost, the savings in power, heat, and bulb changes really add up quick.
I mean, they are stating 50,000 hours out of this unit. HOLY CRAP - that's over 17-years at 8-hour/day, or over 10 years at 12-hours a day!!! I'm pretty sure that will last as long as my next tank :thumbsup:
I'm assuming they're using the 1W or 5W (I'd assume 5W as they're not using a ton of lights) Luxeon LEDs with reflectors and cullimnating (sp?) lenses - which are expensive to start with, but the integrated complete digital control of not only timing, but also color temperature - this thing is really blowing my mind :lol:
I'm going on an RC hunt to see what kinds of prices these are going to be
BAM!
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/5/aaeditorial
more reading on Luxeon's:
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF
PFO said that they're using 3W Luxeon's in a 25-LED array.
Ummmm
that's 75W power producing the same lumens as a 250W halide
PFO said they'll be producing PAR data soon for direct comparison of the light available to our corals.
Excited - yes I am
More:
from this thread : http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=851006&highlight=Solaris
Here's a quote w/ some prices (show specials, so retail could be even more :eek1: )
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/5/aaeditorial
more reading on Luxeon's:
http://www.lumileds.com/pdfs/DS45.PDF
PFO said that they're using 3W Luxeon's in a 25-LED array.
Ummmm
that's 75W power producing the same lumens as a 250W halide PFO said they'll be producing PAR data soon for direct comparison of the light available to our corals.
Excited - yes I am
More:
from this thread : http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=851006&highlight=Solaris
Here's a quote w/ some prices (show specials, so retail could be even more :eek1: )
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kaptken
New member
Hmmm?? those costs sound better than the operating cost calculator on the PFO site assumed. they used $2000 for a SOLARIS light strip. I too like the idea of being able to dial in the kelvin spectrum you want any old time. In time LED lighting will slide into our everyday lives. its very efficient and produces nice light.
for the ambitious do-it-yourselfer who just cant wait for the finished product to come along , the LED's, holders, lenses and ballasts are all available at the LUXEON site. might make a nice project for a small nano reef tank.
http://www.luxeonstar.com/?c1=banner&source=terralux
of course you will have to figure out the same problems PFO has done . what spectrum LEDS to use, mix , layout and what angle of focus. cooling and so on..
I can hear your wheels turning already, Nick....
for the ambitious do-it-yourselfer who just cant wait for the finished product to come along , the LED's, holders, lenses and ballasts are all available at the LUXEON site. might make a nice project for a small nano reef tank.
http://www.luxeonstar.com/?c1=banner&source=terralux
of course you will have to figure out the same problems PFO has done . what spectrum LEDS to use, mix , layout and what angle of focus. cooling and so on..
I can hear your wheels turning already, Nick....
wds21921
New member
Ha ha ha I had hoped this would cause some excitement and some input.
The 48" unit I checked on was listed for $2835 I believe with the controller and everything. While that doe ssound like a lot to invest in, if you do the math as Nick has and figure out bulb replacement costs as well as the energy costs I think you'll find a significant and quick savings
.
The 48" unit I checked on was listed for $2835 I believe with the controller and everything. While that doe ssound like a lot to invest in, if you do the math as Nick has and figure out bulb replacement costs as well as the energy costs I think you'll find a significant and quick savings
.
kaptken
New member
I guess you did that indeed , Dave. but when you think of it. some simple dual halide, dual VHO light hood sells for $900. so its not that far off. but time will bring improvements and lower costs. LED's can take their place in the hobby. but as far as I know, there are no true 420 nm actinic high power LED's yet. in my research i have only found one low power one in that spectrum.
so that brings me to another puzzle. if you look at Sanjay Joshi's spectrum graphs. lamps like the XM 20K seem to peak at something more like 450 nm. and we and the corals like it. so whats the good actinic wavelength? will LED's fill it?
so that brings me to another puzzle. if you look at Sanjay Joshi's spectrum graphs. lamps like the XM 20K seem to peak at something more like 450 nm. and we and the corals like it. so whats the good actinic wavelength? will LED's fill it?
well - the first PFO LED lighting hoods are supposed to be released next month (july) - so if you want to get one - they are taking pre-orders now. I guess you have to contact them directly, as I couldn't find anything on their distributor's websites.
Damn! almost 3K for a 48" light! (the next tank will be a 120 ) - that's way over my budget.
Two tidbits I've picked-up browsing the forums about this-
-Phillips recently acquired Lumileds (makers of the Luxeon) so manufacturing and quality (therefore consistency) will probalby be getting a big boost - I'm guessing that PFO might already have an agreement for making specialized Luxeons for this application with the correct wavelength.
-Supposedly there will be some major improvements in this area over the next 18-months from user feedback and manufacturing improvements (generally speaking for new-product-introductions) - so these are definatly going to be first-generation units, and better ones will be available in a year or two.
There's no question I'll be sticking with halides for a year or two - until there is a definate answer to quality and dependability issues (aka, they get the "bugs" worked-out)
Luxeon's over a nano would be very cool though - or over a refugium they are offering LED arrays that screw-into regular bulb sockets for horticultural use - but making your own out of Luxeon's would probably yield much better growth due to their intensity.
With the associated rise in cost for each unit, I'm hoping they're adding another 25-LED bank for each foot - so the 48" would have 100 LEDs, the equivalent of 4X250W halides - this would be a very powerful light! very exciting indeed!
Damn! almost 3K for a 48" light! (the next tank will be a 120
) - that's way over my budget.Two tidbits I've picked-up browsing the forums about this-
-Phillips recently acquired Lumileds (makers of the Luxeon) so manufacturing and quality (therefore consistency) will probalby be getting a big boost - I'm guessing that PFO might already have an agreement for making specialized Luxeons for this application with the correct wavelength.
-Supposedly there will be some major improvements in this area over the next 18-months from user feedback and manufacturing improvements (generally speaking for new-product-introductions) - so these are definatly going to be first-generation units, and better ones will be available in a year or two.
There's no question I'll be sticking with halides for a year or two - until there is a definate answer to quality and dependability issues (aka, they get the "bugs" worked-out)
Luxeon's over a nano would be very cool though - or over a refugium
they are offering LED arrays that screw-into regular bulb sockets for horticultural use - but making your own out of Luxeon's would probably yield much better growth due to their intensity.With the associated rise in cost for each unit, I'm hoping they're adding another 25-LED bank for each foot - so the 48" would have 100 LEDs, the equivalent of 4X250W halides - this would be a very powerful light! very exciting indeed!
Tbor
New member
For 3k I'll definitely build it myself!! Ken, there's nothing special about 420 vs. 450 nm, there is a pretty broad band from ~400-500nm that's great for photosynthesis. The LED's actually seem to be quite a bit broader than a 20k K MH bulb, 40-60nm as opposed to 10-20 for the MH bulbs. So it should actually be closer to natural sunlight, I would be surprised if the LED's don't compare more favorably when we have some PAR data. Plus when your MH bulbs start to age, that sharp peak @~450 is the first thing to drop. Hence what they call a 'red shift', the bulb spetrum doesn't really shift at all, but the drop in that blue peak causes the CCT value to trend toward the red. But you already know all this jazz...
kaptken
New member
I know some of it but still get a bit confused. i think the 420 peak increases the flourescence. but you are right, the zooxanthalae use a band of spectrum for photosynthesis. thats why i noticed the most favorite lamps seemed to peak at 450 according to sanjay's plots. and perhaps its the 420 area that penetrates deeper in the water for deeper reef species of coral. and it just looks cool too. I know my 420 actinic VHO lamps really make em glow when i turn off the whites. like dayglow at night. I miss the 60's!!
kaptken
New member
I read a study a while back on the peak ranges of coral photosyntehsis. they measured the metabolic rates of various corals under different wavelenghts of light. i think there are three basic categories of zooxanthalea chlorophyl. called 'A' , 'B' AND 'C'. under any given light situation one may dominate. but it also has something to do with the color of the coral. i wrote down some notes.
seems type 'A' blue-green, are most productive at 430nm and 670 mn peaks. yellow, at 476 & 446nm, blues at 630nm, orange at 447 & 449nm, reds at 472nm,
light green type 'C' at 627 & 578 nm, pink at 464 and yellow 470 & 440 nm.
I wish i could find the article again. it was an interesting study. where they actually measured the oxygen consumption under different light and thus indicate the spectrum where the metabolic rates peaked. the spectrum of maximum absorbtion.
so for what its worth, i guess thats why full spectrum lamps make them grow faster. but peaks at these wavelengths might make them more colorful . and it seems many peaks are in the 400's range of blue.
so i guess being able to squew the light spectrum to different parts of the spectrum would help tune your lighting to your tanks needs. or at least more pleasing to the eye.
yes, power savings will be real nice in the future too. my Delmarva rate went up 60% may 1. so i just saw my first new bill. OUCH!! I can just imagine how the LFS are feeling about their bills right now too. in the future it just might be less expensive in the long run , to build a green house tank room like Dr. Macs and use sunlight. or how about a nice light tube or two in the roof like these. I wonder how much light in lumens they bring in? Dr. Mac has two of these over the shallow tanks just to the left as you turn into the tank room.
http://shop.altenergystore.com/item...ular+Skylight+Kit~ic~NATTL-KIT-10~eq~~Tp~.htm
or maybe back to cold cathode lighting. that is certainly low power consumption. I just wonder if its enough light?
seems type 'A' blue-green, are most productive at 430nm and 670 mn peaks. yellow, at 476 & 446nm, blues at 630nm, orange at 447 & 449nm, reds at 472nm,
light green type 'C' at 627 & 578 nm, pink at 464 and yellow 470 & 440 nm.
I wish i could find the article again. it was an interesting study. where they actually measured the oxygen consumption under different light and thus indicate the spectrum where the metabolic rates peaked. the spectrum of maximum absorbtion.
so for what its worth, i guess thats why full spectrum lamps make them grow faster. but peaks at these wavelengths might make them more colorful . and it seems many peaks are in the 400's range of blue.
so i guess being able to squew the light spectrum to different parts of the spectrum would help tune your lighting to your tanks needs. or at least more pleasing to the eye.
yes, power savings will be real nice in the future too. my Delmarva rate went up 60% may 1. so i just saw my first new bill. OUCH!! I can just imagine how the LFS are feeling about their bills right now too. in the future it just might be less expensive in the long run , to build a green house tank room like Dr. Macs and use sunlight. or how about a nice light tube or two in the roof like these. I wonder how much light in lumens they bring in? Dr. Mac has two of these over the shallow tanks just to the left as you turn into the tank room.
http://shop.altenergystore.com/item...ular+Skylight+Kit~ic~NATTL-KIT-10~eq~~Tp~.htm
or maybe back to cold cathode lighting. that is certainly low power consumption. I just wonder if its enough light?
Product Review: An Early Warning Device for Coral Bleaching?: The Spectrum CM1000 Chlorophyll Meter
Looks like it might be a bit broader than select wavelength peaks:
Feature Article: Lighting the Reef Aquarium - Spectrum or Intensity?
The proposed model suggests that Zooxanthellae have the ability to adapt (probably more of a "darwin"ian response to lighting recieved) to the light that they are provided
The response is more complicated by different corals hosting different Zooxanthellae.
Ken's proposition still stands though - as certain Zooxanthellae with more preferable coloration may excel at the above wavelenghts...
I'll post more as I find them
To search advancedaquarist.com use a google advanced search and search under the advancedaquarist.com domain - I find advancedaquarist to be an incredible research tool when it comes to our hobby -
Looks like it might be a bit broader than select wavelength peaks:
Feature Article: Lighting the Reef Aquarium - Spectrum or Intensity?
The proposed model suggests that Zooxanthellae have the ability to adapt (probably more of a "darwin"ian response to lighting recieved) to the light that they are provided
The response is more complicated by different corals hosting different Zooxanthellae.
Ken's proposition still stands though - as certain Zooxanthellae with more preferable coloration may excel at the above wavelenghts...
I'll post more as I find them
To search advancedaquarist.com use a google advanced search and search under the advancedaquarist.com domain - I find advancedaquarist to be an incredible research tool when it comes to our hobby -
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kaptken
New member
thanks for the references Nick, Ive put advanced aquarist in my list of sources. always NEED MORE INPUT, as Johnny 5 would say.
that sounds about right to me, they say chlorophyl can absorb and use light over a broad range of spectrum. but is most productive at certain peak wavelengths and that's why lamp makers try to target wave peaks since our lamps are not as bright as the sun on the sea. kinda like sharp shooting. while full spectrum 6500K light is more like shotgun.
that sounds about right to me, they say chlorophyl can absorb and use light over a broad range of spectrum. but is most productive at certain peak wavelengths and that's why lamp makers try to target wave peaks since our lamps are not as bright as the sun on the sea. kinda like sharp shooting. while full spectrum 6500K light is more like shotgun.
wds21921
New member
Have Nick or Ken broken out the solder guns yet? lol
We may be a year and a half to two years away on this being a viable solution (affordable for avg consumer) but for what it's offering, I think it is still a good investment in many ways.
At least the technology is already around the corner or close to it.
We may be a year and a half to two years away on this being a viable solution (affordable for avg consumer) but for what it's offering, I think it is still a good investment in many ways.
At least the technology is already around the corner or close to it.
