Led Lighting, really reef adequate?

[jminick2]

) You asked if I had Acro. I said yes. Then qualified it by noting that SPS with lower light needs HAVE to be put lower or they will bleach.

My bad I didn't get all that based on what u said, I misunderstood

Who knows how many have 2 Hydra 52 fixtures over a 24"X12"X10" tank to have mushrooms and zoas because that's what he read he needs.

well at least if decides to go acros he will be set in the mean time turn the intensity down....

 

[Hitch08]

These threads cause me to question whether I should just buy a third Radion Pro for my 48x24x24 tank.

Do I really need a third? If so, should I buy it now while I'm making modifications to my canopy (in other words, modify for three now rather than try to switch from two to three later)? Should I do T5's instead? Should I wait - maybe get a newer generation?

Ugh!

 

[jminick2]

These threads cause me to question whether I should just buy a third Radion Pro for my 48x24x24 tank.

Do I really need a third? If so, should I buy it now while I'm making modifications to my canopy (in other words, modify for three now rather than try to switch from two to three later)? Should I do T5's instead? Should I wait - maybe get a newer generation?

Ugh!

I have same dimensions I had two g3 pros and it was absolutely not enough to keep sps dominant tank. I now run MH and am much more happy.

 

[Wazzel]

These threads cause me to question whether I should just buy a third Radion Pro for my 48x24x24 tank.

Do I really need a third? If so, should I buy it now while I'm making modifications to my canopy (in other words, modify for three now rather than try to switch from two to three later)? Should I do T5's instead? Should I wait - maybe get a newer generation?

Ugh!

It really depends. I ran a single hydra 52 on a 24x24x24 and had good results for about a year. After that the shading started to become an issue. If your scape is short and flat you may be good with two or at least good for longer. I have a couple of steep parts that got covered at 6-9 months in and the corals in those areas suffered. I now run two of the same on the tank and the suffering corals have recovered. Based on my experience, I would say at some point you will more than likely need a third unit.

 

[alton]

Here is a video (if it works) of a good friend's tank that has LPS, Zoo's and SPS. The tank is 60" x 27" x27" and grows corals very well. He has 6 Hydra 52's on it for an even coverage. He had two AI fixtures on his 65 before moving everything over.

https://vimeo.com/118770812

 

[Johnseye]

I have same dimensions I had two g3 pros and it was absolutely not enough to keep sps dominant tank. I now run MH and am much more happy.

In what way were 2 G3 pros not sufficient for SPS in a 48x24x24 tank?
Did you use the wide angle lenses?

 

[jminick2]

In what way were 2 G3 pros not sufficient for SPS in a 48x24x24 tank?
Did you use the wide angle lenses?

yes and acros wouldn't grow they would stay alive but they would not grow except for one, for some reason 1 did grow. they would also lose color and become pale. I can show you an example if you'd like....

 

[Johnseye]

yes and acros wouldn't grow they would stay alive but they would not grow except for one, for some reason 1 did grow. they would also lose color and become pale. I can show you an example if you'd like....

I would like to see an example. Losing color and becoming pale is an indication of bleaching, too much light not too little. If they became brown they would have had too little light.

 

[jminick2]

I would like to see an example. Losing color and becoming pale is an indication of bleaching, too much light not too little. If they became brown they would have had too little light.

they did become brown....AKA pale. listen man my corals are a very nice color now I have literally done nothing different other than change my lights you do the math. I don't need anyone trying to troubleshoot my tank i have no issues.

 

[jminick2]

new growth....under MH



when I bought it

 

[jminick2]

I would like to see an example. Losing color and becoming pale is an indication of bleaching, too much light not too little. If they became brown they would have had too little light.

as you can see it a very pale brown and not bleached. the new growth is a nice vibrant purple.

 

[Johnseye]

they did become brown....AKA pale. listen man my corals are a very nice color now I have literally done nothing different other than change my lights you do the math. I don't need anyone trying to troubleshoot my tank i have no issues.

MH is plug and play. LED is not. I'm not trying to troubleshoot your tank. I'm just questioning your statement that two Radion 3 pros are not enough on a 48x24x24 tank. That's what I have and I see no issues with the amount of light. I am using the wide angle lenses and running my lights at about 40%.

 

[jminick2]

MH is plug and play. LED is not. I'm not trying to troubleshoot your tank. I'm just questioning your statement that two Radion 3 pros are not enough on a 48x24x24 tank. That's what I have and I see no issues with the amount of light. I am using the wide angle lenses and running my lights at about 40%.

I ran mine at 80% I got the schedule from a guy with a very successful sps reef the only difference is he had more fixtures.

 

[Perth_reefer]

What kind of tank did the OP ask lighting for? A mixed reef. NOT a full Acro tank. Does he still need 1 Hydra 52 per foot? Does he want Acros from glass to glass? Does he want acros on top, LPS on bottom? Or Acros top, LPS middle, softy on bottom? Do you know? If you don't, how can you advice how many Hydra 52s he needs?

A mixed reef, so softies, LPS and SPS, the OP asked about lighting for a variety of different corals, what information have I given him.....

Of course you can raise your light at the expense of PAR, or you can lower your light at the expense of spread....but people wanting full acropora tanks need both.

I've also included PAR readings for my specific scenario, these were for Hydra52s at 11" from the water surface, the OP can look at these readings and research what light levels the corals require for what he is hoping to achieve. I could ask you the same question, the OP has mentioned a mixed reef, so on your advice of 1 fixture is enough for a 3ft tank he puts one fixture on and wonders why his new expensive Acropora isn't growing.
My advice of having more fixtures will mean the OP has a much higher chance of success, if there is too much light then he can dial them down; having one fixture hanging high above the water surface for sufficient spread may limit what he can keep successfully.

My point was your blanket statement about needing 1 LED fixture per foot is too broad for ALL tanks. In your case of wanting a full acro tank then yes, you need more than 1 LED fixture to get the appropriate light spread and par.
But not everyone wants a full acro tank. My needs are for a mixed reef, more LPS dominate than anything and 1 Hydra 52 is more than enough FOR ME.

You are correct here, I should have clarified the reason why my lighting spread wasn't sufficient and the reason I needed more fixtures.
My quote here was meant about my Acropora requirements:-

Not my experience with Hydra52s. Awesome lights but poor light spread, you need one fixture per ft of tank IMO.

However I think we're both guilty of not clarifying our posts:-

Not my experience. Only 1 hydra 52, 16" awl running at 70% on a 33/18/16 tank and it's plenty of light.

I have tons of light spillage out the sides. Some zoas are bleaching sitting on the sand in the corners.

So is one Hydra52 plenty of light for all tanks? is it too much for Zoas? you're bleaching them on the sandbed. You need to dial them down to stop bleaching Zoas, but then you're restricting PAR for high light demanding corals....

It is posts like yours that breed confusion about LED lighting needs and lead to misconceptions about LED light spreads and power. Who knows how many have 2 Hydra 52 fixtures over a 24"X12"X10" tank to have mushrooms and zoas because that's what he read he needs.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, my statement about needing around one Hydra52 per ft of tank could have been clearer is saying this is SPS requirements, however I have backed it up with PAR readings and pictures of my old lighting setup.
Plenty of people on here take advice about having less fixtures over their tanks and find they don't get sufficient growth and colouration, instead of buying more fixtures they turn to MH then come on here stating LEDs don't work, this site is full of threads like that.
You have basically stated that one Hydra52 on a 3ft tank is fine as long as you mount it high enough, you are bleaching corals on the sand bed and have to move easier SPS down in the tank to stop them bleaching. I'd like to see PAR readings across your tank because you are certainly in the minority here...

I have same dimensions I had two g3 pros and it was absolutely not enough to keep sps dominant tank. I now run MH and am much more happy.

I ran a single hydra 52 on a 24x24x24 and had good results for about a year. After that the shading started to become an issue.

It also proves LEDs work but you have to add many more than the manufacture suggest. If you follow Roberto's rule you will need 10 Hydra's on a 72" x 24" x 27" tank

I currently have two Kessil A360NEs on my 36x18x24" tank and have been considering adding one more. Most of my coral is thriving but I do have shadowing and a frag in the upper corner of the tank, mounted high on the wall, is not getting enough light on the side facing the outside of the tank.

Led do have comparable intensity, however it is a more direct light source that tends to put hot spots on corals which is why many cannot run them at full intensity.

 

[jminick2]

whoa whoa you say ppl come here and say they don't work....reread mine "absolutely not enough" and "not working" is two different things.
I know they can work. I just feel pound for pound they are inferior, and until they can compete pound for pound this argument will always exist.

 

[Perth_reefer]

whoa whoa you say ppl come here and say they don't work....reread mine "absolutely not enough" and "not working" is two different things.
I know they can work. I just feel pound for pound they are inferior, and until they can compete pound for pound this argument will always exist.

That comment definitely wasn't directed at you, I meant more the actual 'I'm ditching LEDs for MH because.....' threads, there's plenty of those about!

 

[jminick2]

That comment definitely wasn't directed at you, I meant more the actual 'I'm ditching LEDs for MH because.....' threads, there's plenty of those about!

True that

 

[Wazzel]

whoa whoa you say ppl come here and say they don't work....reread mine "absolutely not enough" and "not working" is two different things.
I know they can work. I just feel pound for pound they are inferior, and until they can compete pound for pound this argument will always exist.

My opinion is they fixtures such and the AI hydra and ETM radion cover the power and color parts no problem. There major issue is spread, which is just geometry. I do not see any changes coming soon due to the cost of retooling to make that change.

 

[Perth_reefer]

My opinion is they fixtures such and the AI hydra and ETM radion cover the power and color parts no problem. There major issue is spread, which is just geometry. I do not see any changes coming soon due to the cost of retooling to make that change.

Absolutely right. My 3 Hydra52s packed more of a punch than my $3500 Giesemann Aurora, but it's a lot of power and very focussed, that's fine as long as people realise that you won't be getting all that power across the whole tank unless you buy the appropriate number of fixtures, which in most cases is more than the manufacturer recommendation.

 

[lpsouth1978]

Absolutely right. My 3 Hydra52s packed more of a punch than my $3500 Giesemann Aurora, but it's a lot of power and very focussed, that's fine as long as people realise that you won't be getting all that power across the whole tank unless you buy the appropriate number of fixtures, which in most cases is more than the manufacturer recommendation.

This is exactly why I run A LOT of LED's with no lenses, only about 5 inches above the surface of the water (I run the equivalent of 9 Hydra 52's, while the mfg. suggests 5-6 for my tank). Having no lenses means that I get much LESS focused light, requiring more LED's to get the penetration needed. It also means that I can (or have to) keep the light close to the surface of the water in order to reduce wasted light that just fills the room. Having lots of LED's also helps to eliminate the disco effect and shadowing problems.

The down side is that I save NOTHING on electricity. My lights pull just as much power as a MH system. The only savings for me are in bulb replacements and the lack of a need to run a chiller.

So why am I still such a big fan of LED's? Simple..... controllability and customization. LED's allow this like no other light source (arguably also the biggest down side and the biggest complaint of some LED haters who want a plug-and-play stsyem).