Leopard Wrasse vs. Dragonet: Which is harder to keep fed and ween onto prepared foods

[small alien]

I would really appreciate input from people with experience.

I've kept Ocellated Dragonets alive for a couple of years solely on prepared food.

I've tried a few Green Mandarins and given them away because it was just too much work keeping weight on using prepared foods.

I have a 75 and I'm wondering about a pair of leopard wrasses. I'm familiar with rigorous target feeding.

Thanks. the small one

Thanks

 

[small alien]

Obviously, they would be added when the tank is much more mature. I'm just putting together my stocking list and order. Thanks. The leopard wrasses are absolutely stunning.

 

[Tylt33]

I've got five leopards in my tank- of 16 that I've purchased. And four I've had for less than a week. They have an 80 to 90% death rate within the first week or so, from factors out of your control. That being said, if you get a healthy one, they eat without problems.

Mandarins are tricky to get eating prepared foods. Beyond that, they're fine.

 

[AquaKnight]

Mandarin's are harder to get to eat prepared foods. But if the tank is large enough, err has a good quantity of live rock, refugium, and mature time, they don't need fed. I've had my green spot for a bit over 4 years now. Only really see him a couple of times, mostly is in the rocks hunting pods. Never have noticed in interested in prepared foods.

Leopards are harder to keep. They are significantly more prone to jumping (not that mandarin's don't jump), are more prone to disease (internal parasites), and health concerns. Arriving underweight, with a damaged mouth from a container with no sand, etc.

 

[cykenp]

Leopards can be tricky, but I have had ones that ate pellets and frozen.

Mandarins could be trained...try feeding live brine, then froze brine and then frozen mysis. Being patient and dropping the food in front of them is important

 

[snorvich]

Leopards will eat frozen, especially PE mysis. However, they must be able to hunt for copepods, etc, in addition to the frozen food supplied. I have mandarins and leopards (but not in the same tank) and have no problem keeping either. As Tylt33 says above, getting healthy ones is problematical. I have 5 in one tank including a pair of M. choati; my death rate of acquisitions has been minimal but I would certainly not recommend more than one in the OP sized tank. You do NOT target feed leopard wrasses, they will go into the sand.

 

[Tylt33]

I wouldn't recommend trying to keep a leopard without reading the primer above... Need to know what you're up against.

 

[jedi31]

I have my Red Mandarin for almost 6 months now. He doesn't eat prepared foods but I have tons of pods. I do have to buy the tiggers pods ever now and than but he his fat and happy. I have ordered two blue star leopard wrasses and brought another one from a good LFS and all three died within a week. IME the leopard's are the hardest first I have every dealt with and I have 7 plus years experience in keeping marine fish. They are sweet looking but never again.

 

[small alien]

Thanks for all the info. I will read the primer. Sorry I missed that.

Appreciate the no target feeding suggestion.

Would you guys recommend I wait for one to come through DD or try to get one locally? How do they ship?

Thanks.

 

[snorvich]

Would you guys recommend I wait for one to come through DD or try to get one locally? How do they ship?

Thanks.

Personally, I buy all of my fish through Divers Den for a variety of reasons: they have a 14 day guarantee (which most others do not, especially on leopard wrasses), they tend to have select specimens, they are eating and generally treated for any potential illness. Shipping is not normally an issue if they are healthy. Locally, every once in a while you can get lucky, but generally you won't have the same advantages as DD. There do seem to be good batches and less good batches; I guess it depends on the capture and handling the fish experience before the ultimate vendor.

 

[small alien]

Thank you, Steve. I appreciate your input very much. If and when I get one or a pair, y'all will be the first to know. Best.

 

[jedi31]

DD Live Aquaria is awesome. I have received some beautiful fish from them but I still wouldn't have the leopards shipped IMO. They love to bury themselves in the sand and when they ship overnight they try to bury themselves in the bag and they end up damaging their mouths and it makes it even harder for them to eat. For the Leopards the best is to find one that is eating at your LFS and grab it. They also need very timid tank mates otherise they will never come out and eat. Good Luck if you decide to get one. Those Blue Star ones are amazing.

 

[small alien]

Thanks for the tip.

 

[snorvich]

Well, all but one of my leopards were shipped to me. I did get one from my LFS but it was a present for services rendered. So, shipping, at least for me, has not been a problem.

 

[jedi31]

Well, all but one of my leopards were shipped to me. I did get one from my LFS but it was a present for services rendered. So, shipping, at least for me, has not been a problem.

Steve,

Did you have LA ship sand in the bag with your Leopard? Did you get yours from DD? I just had no luck with them. The first one I ordered from LA not DD site but the one in Cali arrived DOA. The replacement lived for 3 days and died in the sand. The third one was from a good LFS he never ate there or in my tank. He died after 3 weeks. I gave up! Lucky you they are great fish. I guess I stick with my mystery wrasse he's a nice alternate.

 

[rkelley_10]

Leopards have notriously low survival rates due to collection practices and poor feeding in transit and holding along the collector/wholesaler/aquarist pipeline. A well poplulated fuge and large amount of mature LR is tantamount to the success of keeping both mandarins and leopard wrasses. Comparing the two, the feeding requirements for a leopard are much more demanding. My roommate and I have successfully trained mandarins to take PE Mysis using a feeding station. The Mandarins have very high metabolisms and are not a "chase and eat" feeder. Here's what we do: observe the mandarin and note an area where they like to dwell. Take a urine specimen cup or other small container and drill a few holes in it. Weight it down by half burying it in sand or with LR rubble. Place the food product inside so it stays stationary and doesn't get blown away by the tank's water movement. Usually, it will take a week or so for the mandarin to realize the food is in the feeding station. An additional process that could yield better results or quicker acclimation to prepared feeding is to isolate the dragonet and provide the feeding station. As aforementioned, the dragonet will have to "discover" there is food there.

NOTE: if feeding prepared, the product provided should be of the highest nutritional density. Brine shrimp simply will not suffice with a crude protein content of around 3.5%. Even mysis products from companies like Hikari and Ocean Nutrition have a protein content of only 5-10%. Use PE Mysis, the have a crude protein content of approximately 70% and are rich in HUFA (Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acids) and Omega-3's. Additional nutrient value can be added by soaking the food in Selcon or other HUFA solution and/or vitamin C solution such as Koralle-VM by Brightwell Aquatics. Just remember that a dragonet, because of their metbolism, may take up to 6 months to waste away and die.

With proper food choice and success in training with the feeding station, the biggest problem you'll have is figuring out how to keep those pesky little hermit crabs from raiding the cookie jar. Hope that helps.

 

[ScooterTDI]

According to the packaging for Hikari and PE mysis, they are that different in terms of % protein and % fat content. Hikari gives their protein and fat content as a % of wet weight, while PE gives their protein and fat content as a % of dry weight. When Hikari's numbers are converted to dry weight figures, the fat and protein content is roughly comparable. Interestingly enough, the dry% protein and fat content of SF bay brine shrimp is actually a little greater that of Hikari mysis. Again, this is just according to the packaging.

Scott

 

[snorvich]

According to the packaging for Hikari and PE mysis, they are that different in terms of % protein and % fat content. Hikari gives their protein and fat content as a % of wet weight, while PE gives their protein and fat content as a % of dry weight. When Hikari's numbers are converted to dry weight figures, the fat and protein content is roughly comparable. Interestingly enough, the dry% protein and fat content of SF bay brine shrimp is actually a little greater that of Hikari mysis. Again, this is just according to the packaging.

Scott

The problem with the above is that all of my leopards eat PE mysis and will not touch Hikari. If they will not eat it, it does not make a big difference what the package says.

 

[Tylt33]

Thanks for all the info. I will read the primer. Sorry I missed that.

Appreciate the no target feeding suggestion.

Would you guys recommend I wait for one to come through DD or try to get one locally? How do they ship?

Thanks.

I've had two through DD, three through LA. All died, but were refunded. Of the five that I've had survive, I got one from Blue Zoo (survived out of a group of three), and four are from Vivid Aquariums (four of four survived). I would say Vivid had the least intensive packaging- not much water, only double bagged. However, they're in southern Cali, and I'm in northern Cali, and I was able to have them shipped to a hold facility, so shipping was probably not as stressful as for the others. And, as Snorvich said (and I believe whole heartedly) there are good collection and bad collection batches. These are difficult fish.

 

[small alien]

Thanks for taking the time, rkelly et al.