Lets Talk About Fish Tank Support - Electrical Question

[KMP]

So I pretty much have your standard system plus/minus a few things:

1 - Return pump (38w)
1 - Heater (250w)
1 - Skimmer (20w)
1 - MH (250w)
2 - Actinics (192w)
4 - Moonlights (?w)
1 - Fuge Light (48w)
1 - Mini Jet 606 (6w)
1 - Mini Jet 404 (4w)
2 - Tunze 6025 (13w)
2 - Wavy Seas (?w)
8 - Fans (?w)
1 - AC Jr (?w)
1 - Chiller (?w)

Like most I said, "Here's where I want to put it" - plop - hmm, there is only one standard "2 plug" receptacle. It's a given that more plugs are better; however, got me to thinking:

Is that to much for those 2 plugs and how many plugs are other folks using to run their systems.

I have another "2 plug" receptacle about 8 ft away that I can plug the chiller into. If I were to do that, would everything else be good on the 1 "2 plug" receptacle.

 

[WarrenG]

The wiring in the walls for EACH outlet SHOULD be enough for 15 amps at either location. If the outlet slots also have a little opening that's 90 degrees to the regular slots then the wiring SHOULD be enough for 20 amps (newer homes in kitchens and baths and garages, etc.) . No matter how many plugs you use the breaker will provide the total limit, so check that first.

 

[D&KSac]

Well heres the thing Kenny. Unless you have a dedicated outlet for your tank. The circuit in whole is more than likely 15 amp. now under continuess load you should never exceed more than 80% of that. Not to mention the recepticle is only rated for usually for household convience outlets is only 15 amps also. Its not so much the load on that one outlet you need to be all that concerned with. Since unless your chiller and halides are pulling some major juice, but if you have more on that circuit you may start tripping the breaker.

 

[wpnorton]

You'll need to find out if the 8' away outlet is on the same circuit It's easy enough to do by shutting all the breakers off except the tank outlet..then go see if the other one 8' away has juice too. if so, putting your chiller in that plug will still draw on your breaker at the box. You Might be tripping that breaker at initial chiller startup when everything else is running....especialy if you go with a double metal halide system down the raod like your thinking about.

Electrical is always Fun!

 

[KMP]

Warren - Thank you.

D&KSac - Got your PM. Will try to call later or tomorrow. I'm trying to get kids settled for the night right now.

Wayne - I'll have to do the field test; however, the breakers are labeled "Living Room West Wall" (chiller) and "Living Room North Wall" (tank). So I think I'm good.

Given this info and much discussion with Wayne today and assuming the outlets are on different breakers I think I'll do this:

1st outlet - All the stuff hooked up to the tank, except...

2nd outlet - Chiller, 100w heater (not big enough for tank, but but will keep temps stable longer should the other heater go out and small enough should the heater temp control fail it won't cook the tank), 1 Tunze. That will give me some back up (heat and circulation) should the 1st outlet trip when I'm not around.

 

[KMP]

Tested the outlets. They are on separate breakers - cool!

 

[D&KSac]

Then you should be fine.

 

[RAYSTOCKETT]

YOUR DOING THE RIGHT THING

YOUR DOING THE RIGHT THING

SPLITING BETWEEN THE TWO OUTLETSDOES GIVE YOU BACK UP. VERRY GOOD.
BUT FYI THE TOTAL WATTAGE YOU LISTED IS ONLY 821WATTS. ONE 15 AMP CIRCUIT BREAKER (AT 120VOLTS) IS CAPEABLE OF HANDELING UP TO 1,800 WATTS BUT SHOULD ONLY HAVE A CONTINOUS LOAD OF 80 %(AS WASS STATED ABOVE) WHITCH WOULD BE 1,440 WATTS. SO YOU COULD LOAD EACH CIRCUIT UP TO THAT BY CODE.
RICHARD

 

[RAYSTOCKETT]

DONT FORGET

DONT FORGET

YOUR FRIDGE OR WASHING MACHINE COULD BE ON ONE OF THOSE CIRCUITS(tHOUGH THEY SHOULDNT BE). IM JUST SAYING DONT FORGET OR NEGLECT THE OTHER THINGS THAT COULD BE ON THOSE CIRCUITS.
RICHARD

 

[KMP]

fridge and washer are on a total separate fuse box. thanks for the input guys regarding load on the plugs.

while there are some electrictians in the house each of my plugs when you plug something into them can lose power if the cable is knocked/wiggled. from talking to wayne he mentioned this is common in older houses and the receptacle needs to be replaced. i did pull one of the receptacles out and all wiring is in tack. are we on the right track? is this merely a case whereas the receptacle needs replacing?

also, any problem with putting a 20amp gfi on a 15amp line?

 

[RAYSTOCKETT]

right

right

its not the wiring thats the broblem its the old outlet. Replace it, and problem solved.
as for the 20 amp outlet on the 15 amp line and breaker. The 15 amp breaker can hold 15 amp and the wire required for a 15 amp circuit is 14 gague that can only hold 15 amps. yes you can put a 20 amp outlet in. but dont think you can now switch the breaker to a 20 amp breaker, your wire would still anly be able to hold 15 amps and if your tried to load it to 20 amps it would in theory melt and or catch fire.not good.
but yes 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit, only loading it up to 15 amps
richard

 

[KMP]

thank you sir!

 

[D&KSac]

They sell 15 amp gfci for residential use at home depot. I disagree with Ray more than likely there would be no problem. But the whole reason for a Ground Fault Current Interupter. Is to stop a ground fault locally. It has a much faster trip response then the panel which could be located at a greater distance that the water source. I would size the appropriate outlet with the circuit. Thats why they make 15 amp GFCI's and make 20 amp.

 

[KMP]

Not knowing about amps before talking with you guys, I bought a 20 amp gfci. However; if for no other reason, I should return it and get a 15 amp just so I don't forget what I'm working with years from now

 

[D&KSac]

yes that would be best. Its not uncommon to see that in a house 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit. Its just not the right thing to do and with all the moisture and amount of electrical we use on our tanks i would have the right outlet for the right circuit.

 

[CaliforniaDreamer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11667229#post11667229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by D&KSac
yes that would be best. Its not uncommon to see that in a house 20 amp outlet on a 15 amp circuit. Its just not the right thing to do and with all the moisture and amount of electrical we use on our tanks i would have the right outlet for the right circuit.

Absolutely. Also note that if the circuit is wired with 14 gauge then the 20 amp GFI will be setup to accept 12 gauge not 14 gauge wire. Using the screw terminals will work, but you would get a better connection using a 15 amp GFI.

In any case DO NOT use the push in connectors on a 20 amp GFI with 14 gauge wire. This could cause a loose connection, corrosion and heat buildup and eventually a fire.

 

[Reefugee]

FYI: I have had great success with the Leviton brand. Also - make sure that you wire the load and the feed properly. Last - do yourself a favor and purchase a GFCI/wiring tester to make sure the wiring is done properly.

Here's a post that may have some useful information:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=802223

Good luck. If you need help - let me know. I live close enough to you.

Minh

 

[MrMikeB]

Kenny, glad to see you have the sense to plan this stuff out. There are those, who shall remain nameless, who did not account for the initial spike when certain equipment fired up and overloaded a circuit overnight which lead to a huge loss of life due to something that was easy enough to fix with a little foresight.

So my advice is to not only look into continuous draw, but account for the spike chillers and other large items usually draw when they fire to ensure you are covered.

 

[D&KSac]

Yup motor start is a big one hence why you only wanna load a circuit to no more than 80% not to mention loading a circuit beyond that can cause a breaker to fail over time. Some big ones that can affect motor start is pumps, and compressors (chillers in our case here) things of this nature have a initial amp spike above there normal working amp draw. Usually motors will have both load ammounts on there equipment stamp.

 

[mpoletti]

IMO, I feel that it is very important to fave a dedicated circuit for our lighting and chillers. They draw so much power and I was always scared that I would pop my breaker. I slept very well this summer knowing that I took the correct measures.