stony_corals
New member
I noticed the opposite effect, after dosing with carbon, my ORP went up.... Could be as simple as the reduced pH from bacteria respiration causing the ORP to increase..
Lets talk about Vodka/sugar dosing
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Re: Zedar
Re: Zedar
Yeah that happens. Spike in skimmer output suggests the water becomes full of wastes after addition. There is a good chance that this is the reason for RTN and detrimental effects on corals when dosing is high upfront. I decided to add at a more consistent level by adding ethanol to my top-off water running through my kalk reactor (I wouldn't suggest sugar or vinegar for this method though). Has worked decently since I've started doing it with a nice constant output from my skimmer.
Isn't half a teaspoon of sugar alot to be adding to a tank? I add half a shot of vodka at 42 proof / day in top-off water.
Re: Zedar
Yeah that happens. Spike in skimmer output suggests the water becomes full of wastes after addition. There is a good chance that this is the reason for RTN and detrimental effects on corals when dosing is high upfront. I decided to add at a more consistent level by adding ethanol to my top-off water running through my kalk reactor (I wouldn't suggest sugar or vinegar for this method though). Has worked decently since I've started doing it with a nice constant output from my skimmer.
Isn't half a teaspoon of sugar alot to be adding to a tank? I add half a shot of vodka at 42 proof / day in top-off water.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
So, what is everyone dosing as an AA complex, bacteria supplement, trace minerals/vitamins, ETC.... Just curious what people are doing that are not on a full blown zeo system. Are you using some zeo products, no zeo products? What other additives are you dosing that seem to be helping with coloration, growth, microfauna reproduction, and any other noted benefits or drawbacks of carbon dosing and the needed successive supplementing.
I've been dosing sugar for several weeks now. Is it okay to only dose sugar (I'm a recovered alcoholic and don't want vodka in the house), or do i need to dose acetal as well? I have noticed decreased diatoms on the glass, decreased cheato growth, and a massive increase in skimmer output. My LPS are looking great! some of my SPS are starting to look a little pastel. I am currently feeding LOTS day and night and the skimmer is able to keep up with the feedings now where it was struggling before. I am dosing Kent Coral-Accell as directed on the bottle. I still feel like I am missing some key parts of this system, I'm just not sure what.
How would one know if there system has accumalted a mono bacterial culture? I'm thinking of ordering zeobac just to be safe. Is that nessecary?
I've been dosing sugar for several weeks now. Is it okay to only dose sugar (I'm a recovered alcoholic and don't want vodka in the house), or do i need to dose acetal as well? I have noticed decreased diatoms on the glass, decreased cheato growth, and a massive increase in skimmer output. My LPS are looking great! some of my SPS are starting to look a little pastel. I am currently feeding LOTS day and night and the skimmer is able to keep up with the feedings now where it was struggling before. I am dosing Kent Coral-Accell as directed on the bottle. I still feel like I am missing some key parts of this system, I'm just not sure what.
How would one know if there system has accumalted a mono bacterial culture? I'm thinking of ordering zeobac just to be safe. Is that nessecary?
LionfishFinatic
New member
anyone dosing smaller tanks?? would there be any benefit in doing so?? I am just getting started in SPS and would greatly appreciate any info on how to keep my params as stable as can be. (sorry for the hijack 
)
EDIT: tank is a 29 gallon
)EDIT: tank is a 29 gallon
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12190408#post12190408 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LionfishFinatic
anyone dosing smaller tanks?? would there be any benefit in doing so?? I am just getting started in SPS and would greatly appreciate any info on how to keep my params as stable as can be. (sorry for the hijack
EDIT: tank is a 29 gallon
If you have a 29g tank you really shouldn't mess around with this. I'm sure someone out there is doing it but from personal experience you just don't need to. If you have a 20g refugium setup with it you can grow SPS without issues. I did. Salt changes are so easy as 5 gallons is ~10% on 50g why mess with something that could potential end your tank.
glassbox-design
New member
we were using our "method" on our 20g sps nano with good results...granted we also had a deltec mce600 on it.
NanoReefWanabe
Active member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12193078#post12193078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
There ya go. That someone responded faster than I thought.
i wish i could effectivly reduce them with changes...i quite possibly have bad rocks...but i dont know...GHA is growing and i cant stop it..i have a 4 or 5 gallon refuge set up with a big ball of regularly prunned cheato and a mangrove...and i am actually getting 5 more mangroves tomorrow...and i cant git rid of nitrates...i was doing 5 gallons a week in 20H display and 10 gallon sump (~full to about 7gallons) to no avail...
i started dosing vodka...in very small amounts...1 st week i was doing 1/2 ml...then i went to 3/4 ml the second week...then 1 ml...currently i am at 1.25ml and i seeing the GHA starting to recede and the bubble algae is melting...
so currently i would say i am having success with the vodka...but i really dont want to add anymore then i already do...
i had to change my topoff schedule because before i was dripping kalk at night...and decided it would be easier to drip it during the day since i was adding the vodka to the kalk drip...and since my skimmer is off during the night i was afraid of O2 depletion with the skimmer off....
anyway...i now have less then 5pm of nitrate almost 0 which is far better then the 10-15 it was always at..and according to my API PO4 kit i have no detectable PO4
needless to say i am very happy so far...
glassbox-design
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12193078#post12193078 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Genetics
There ya go. That someone responded faster than I thought.
Water changes don't provide a stable foam head or a food source for corals
The key is a good skimmer, something many <50g tanks lack.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12193339#post12193339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by glassbox-design
Water changes don't provide a stable foam head or a food source for corals
Agreed on the skimmer. My 29g had a 150g rated skimmer on it. Though I remember people arguing about "over-skimming" with that sized skimmer on a small tank. Still think its amusing. Anyways, could you elaborate on "a stable foam head"? With a form of nutrient export, such as a refugium, and a decent skimmer you would be able to feed your corals well. The water changes would help also.
I guess what I'm worried about is people conceptually think more is better. So by adding ethanol, sugar, or vinegar you would make your tank better. If you add too much of one of these carbon sources with an undersized skimmer and high nutrient load you could potentially kill your tank overnight.
What I've noticed on these boards is no one pays attention to the amount of carbon added. I see "added 1ml of EtOH for best results on my such and such size tank" while this is great it provided absolutely no value to the thread and shows a lack of conceptualization. When I started adding EtOH to my kalk-reactor autotop off I noticed my ORP drop to ~270 the first night. Adding very little (4mL of 20% EtOH) to 250gal saltwater almost ended my tank. On a tank totaling less than 50g I just don't understand why anyone would want to risk it.
glassbox-design
New member
When a skimmed is pulling 400lph, in an already low nutrient 20g tank there is not enough bioload to create skimmate...because the skimmer is indeed oversized for the tank. The biomass created from the carbon adds to the foam head and helps removed nutrients along with it.
I agree no one pays any attention to the amount of carbon dosed, but in general the amount is pretty meaningless IMO. Each tank is much different and following a guideline, could lead to more harm than good.
It all depends on the tank, like you said 4ml almost crashed your system. I was up to 2ml's of our mix at one point on 20g's of volume...Now currently I experience a mini bloom pushing it past 1ml on our 90g. Every tank is very different and is why carbon dosing should be used as a tool for advanced reefers who understand the implications of it's use.
Everyone has their preference in methods and that's why this hobby is so interesting. To say it's silly on smaller tanks IMO is limiting. If the stability and export is there I see no reason why not. (With the logic you gave, any filtration on a nano tank should be dumped in favor of WC's because they adequately handle nutrients. Clearly that is not the case, but I hope you get the point that I am making )
Carbon dosing is no more powerful than kalkwasser, two-part, and other supplements. All should be added slowly, with care, and with the necessary knowledge... which is easily accessible via RC and other online forums.
I agree no one pays any attention to the amount of carbon dosed, but in general the amount is pretty meaningless IMO. Each tank is much different and following a guideline, could lead to more harm than good.
It all depends on the tank, like you said 4ml almost crashed your system. I was up to 2ml's of our mix at one point on 20g's of volume...Now currently I experience a mini bloom pushing it past 1ml on our 90g. Every tank is very different and is why carbon dosing should be used as a tool for advanced reefers who understand the implications of it's use.
Everyone has their preference in methods and that's why this hobby is so interesting. To say it's silly on smaller tanks IMO is limiting. If the stability and export is there I see no reason why not. (With the logic you gave, any filtration on a nano tank should be dumped in favor of WC's because they adequately handle nutrients. Clearly that is not the case, but I hope you get the point that I am making
)Carbon dosing is no more powerful than kalkwasser, two-part, and other supplements. All should be added slowly, with care, and with the necessary knowledge... which is easily accessible via RC and other online forums.
You make some excellent points that I'm not disagreeing with. However, most useful supplements added for water quality are all able to be measured within the water column (Calcium, Mg, PO4, NO3, Salinity). Currently, there is little to guide carbon source addition ATM and long-term effects are still undecided. Putting an arbitrary cap on tank size isn't an ideal situation, but the smaller the tank gets the larger the potential for that initial overdose. The fact that there is such a variation b/t system does not add to this.
Personally, I would dose on my old nano if I still had it set up. With that said what I recommend online is always towards the safer side. Think of this advice much like warning labels on coffee (this beverage you are about to enjoy may be extremely hot).
So if you want to dose a 29g tank with a source of carbon I would do the following first:
1) Make sure your skimmer can handle an increase in biofilm output.
2) Understand that 3 different carbon sources exist currently in the hobby which may not be quickly interchangeable so choose one that you're comfortable handling and stick with it.
3) Dilute your dose into a container that allows reproducibility. For ethanol I would dilute it to 1% and then start with 1mL increments. For vinegar the same.
4) Add 1mL daily and wait for results. Increase as needed. Noticeable differences (in clarity, coral coloration, and polyp extension) have been seen in my tanks after 1 week (even the ones running ozone).
melev
Well-known member
If any of you have reached the point where you feel comfortable creating some type of user's guide or template for probable success, please type it up. Threads like these are good to hash out some details, but at some point someone needs to put together some guidelines as that will help the most people.
JCTewks
In Memoriam
Sorry to quote myself....I'm just hoping that since all or most people involved in this thread are currently dosing and supplementing that this would be a good place to get an answer
I thought maybe my question got lost in the shuffle :lol:
I thought maybe my question got lost in the shuffle :lol:
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12187594#post12187594 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
So, what is everyone dosing as an AA complex, bacteria supplement, trace minerals/vitamins, ETC.... Just curious what people are doing that are not on a full blown zeo system. Are you using some zeo products, no zeo products? What other additives are you dosing that seem to be helping with coloration, growth, microfauna reproduction, and any other noted benefits or drawbacks of carbon dosing and the needed successive supplementing.
I've been dosing sugar for several weeks now. Is it okay to only dose sugar (I'm a recovered alcoholic and don't want vodka in the house), or do i need to dose acetal as well? I have noticed decreased diatoms on the glass, decreased cheato growth, and a massive increase in skimmer output. My LPS are looking great! some of my SPS are starting to look a little pastel. I am currently feeding LOTS day and night and the skimmer is able to keep up with the feedings now where it was struggling before. I am dosing Kent Coral-Accell as directed on the bottle. I still feel like I am missing some key parts of this system, I'm just not sure what.
How would one know if there system has accumalted a mono bacterial culture? I'm thinking of ordering zeobac just to be safe. Is that nessecary?
Chrisrush
New member
I think the point Marc, is that there will and probably should never be a standard, hardset guideline for carbon dosing. Each tank starts at a given N/P level, each tank has different characteristics, each tank has different skimmer selections, etc.
On my tank (~70g total), I started off with .25mL for 3 days and then went up to .5mL for 2 weeks. Only after those 2 weeks, did I feel comfortable with adding another .5mL to the daily dose. At this point, I'm on the low end of dosing for my tank size, but I don't feel comfortable pushing the limit at this point. Partially because I have a bit of cyano that I'm researching, and partially because I am seeing good results with the amount that I am at right now. If I bump up to 1.5mL, will I see better, faster results? I might, but I also might get a bloom or worse, OD the tank.
On my tank (~70g total), I started off with .25mL for 3 days and then went up to .5mL for 2 weeks. Only after those 2 weeks, did I feel comfortable with adding another .5mL to the daily dose. At this point, I'm on the low end of dosing for my tank size, but I don't feel comfortable pushing the limit at this point. Partially because I have a bit of cyano that I'm researching, and partially because I am seeing good results with the amount that I am at right now. If I bump up to 1.5mL, will I see better, faster results? I might, but I also might get a bloom or worse, OD the tank.
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