Let's talk about water quality in an SPS tank.

[melev]

Joe, thanks for the reply. I'm trying to gauge our tanks to get an idea if they are comparable. It sounds like we are pretty even.

wfgworks, Phosban is a dry, dusty media where ROWAphos is damp and will make a plastic spoon look like it is rusty (after using it in the media).

I still can't get over the tiny amount you guys are recommending. Not that I'm complaining, but 3 tablespoons sounds like nothing compared to 330g of water. I do understand your cautious approach to assure the corals will be okay and still remove PO4 from the water. If I'm only using such a small amount, one Phosban Reactor should be plenty.

Joe, you were specific about using carbon above the media to help trap / remove some of the fines. What about the fact that for 4 weeks, carbon has exceeded its usefulness, has become a nitrate-producing zone, and may even release something it has absorbed early on? I normally run carbon for 3 days and take it off the system. Here's why: http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm

 

[JB NY]

Hey Marc,

I'm not using the carbon to reduce Gelbstoff. Rather to catch anything harmful from the GFO.

I know that article well. It is the reason that, in the beginning, I only used carbon for 48 hours at a time I did this for about 1 1/2 years. After a while I felt that my primary reason for using carbon was not to reduce Gelbstoff but to reduce organics and nutrients. So I started keeping my carbon in the sump for two weeks. After about a year, I was talking to some people using zeovit. The zeovit system uses carbon for one month before swapping it for new carbon. A few people who had previously been changing carbon more often did not notice any detrimental effect to letting the carbon go a month in between changing. So I tried it and agree that changing carbon one a month seems to work just as well, over the long term, as changing it every two weeks.

I think if you have a problems, you should change out the carbon more often. If I see problems with my tank I will change carbon every 2-3 days until I think I have things under control. But for regular maintenance I only change it once a month.

FWIW. My Nitrates have always been undetectable and my phosphates undetectable with Salifert tests.

Also as far as preference to GFO, I have used Phosban, Salifert's Phosphate Killer, and Rowaphos. I think Salifert and Phosban work the same. I think the Rowaphos work slightly better than the others. FWIW.

 

[dgasmd]

It is interesting to see that you guys are using such small amounts of GFO. For over a year, I used phosban at twice the recommended dose with no problems at all. Then again, I had so much algae growing everywhere from the gigantic fish I was keeping and fron the accumulated PO4 over time. In my new tank, I have been using it from the begining at 1/2 the dose. Still have some nuissance algae growing that has been in check only with the use of several urchins. I do run a lot of carbon for 1-2 months. I am lazy, so I change it when I remember only. I decided to stop using phosban continiously and use it only for about 2 months and leave it off for another 2 months. I can't tell you a see a real difference yet. I will however start using a Merck/Deltec PO4 kit and test the effluent of the reactor too. Good discussion by the way.

 

[Fliger]

my phosphates undetectable with Salifert tests.

I love Salifert for everything except phosphate. In fact I'm surprised they even put it out. It is unreliable and doesn't give the grades necessary (IME). For years I though I had zero phospates until I got a Merck (Deltec) kit. I use it sparingly, a test costs a buck. A friend has a colormeter and our results on Kent salt turned up the exact same results of .04 which is a scary discussion in itself.

Finsreef told me that Tunze was coming out with a phosphate test kit but I have no idea how it turned out.

 

[Hef]

Where are you guys getting this Merck/Deltec PO4 kit? I know its' expensive, but my real PO4 level is something I would like to know.

 

[Travis]

FWIW, you can get a Hanna colorimeter and 100 reagents for just under $200. That comes out to about $2 per test. When you run out of reagents you just purchase another 100 pack for around $20. Then you are down to about $.20 per test. If you plan to use it a lot it may be more cost effective in the long run to go with a Hanna.

With the Deltec/Merck, do you need to purchase a new kit every time or can you just get the reagents? If the latter, how much for the reagants and how many tests do you get from them?

 

[vair]

http://www.deltecusa.us/aquariummedia/phosphatetestkit.php

Dave

 

[Fliger]

A friend has that colorimeter and it is cool. When my Deltec kit runs out I'll decide which to buy. I'm not sure, but I think you have to buy a whole new kit every time - but I really like the kit.

One thing is for sure, the Salifert test kit is rather useless for a reef tank, IME. And I love Salifert.

I do also agree with JBNY the the Deltec FR509 is a nice piece of equipment. The TLF Phosban reactor is improved, but its still not really in the same league as the Deltec. I hate the TLF sponges.

 

[melev]

Why do you guys not like the Salifert kit? Have you told Habib this so he can make any necessary adjustments? Paying $15 for that kit vs $200 for the one you guys are suggesting is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[wfgworks]

You dont have to buy a whole new Deltec PO4 Kit when you run out. Doug sells seperate refills depending on what you run out of.

 

[Hef]

It's just that the PO4 and in my opinion, the NO3 kits are way inferior to the more definitive read Ca, Alk, and MG kits that Salifert makes.
I've been testing for 5 years with a Salifert test kit, and I dont think I've ever seen any reading of PO4 on a test. I'm not nieve enough to think I dont have any, I just cant see any color change on the test. On the NO3 test now, you are looking through I think 1ml of water from the side. It just seems very inacurate.

 

[wfgworks]

What do you guys think of the MRC Fluidized Reactors for Carbon or a GFO?

I can understand certain technology when it comes to Protein skimmers and Cacium reactors, but a Fluidized reactor seems pretty basic with the upflow design.

 

[Fliger]

Melev - I just find it hard to read, and get inconsistant readings. The graduations of the Deltec kit are much smaller, and leave little doubt. It is $100, and is good for 100 tests. I think the Salifert kit is about $20 and its good for about 50 tests. So really its $40 vs $100 and I think its a very well spent sixty bucks.

Cool news wftworks. I hate your avatar. I flew to KC for the KC/Philly game. I'm in therapy for it. ;-)

 

[dgasmd]

FWIW, you can get a Hanna colorimeter and 100 reagents for just under $200.

Can you provide us with a link to the colorimeter you are suggesting?

 

[melev]

It's just that the PO4 and in my opinion, the NO3 kits are way inferior to the more definitive read Ca, Alk, and MG kits that Salifert makes.
I've been testing for 5 years with a Salifert test kit, and I dont think I've ever seen any reading of PO4 on a test. I'm not nieve enough to think I dont have any, I just cant see any color change on the test. On the NO3 test now, you are looking through I think 1ml of water from the side. It just seems very inacurate.

Hef, how about I send you some of my reef water, so you can test that? :lol: About two months ago, PO4 was 3.0. As of last Saturday, it was .1 finally. I'd love to have your problem, seeing a reading of 0 all the time.

Hey, I've got a better idea. Try feeding your tank occasionally. (I'm known for heavy feedings.)

 

[Travis]

melev, IMO and IME, the Salifert kit is only sensitive enough to tell you if you have a PO4 problem. It will not pick up low levels. FWIW, I've used the kit for several years. The only time I get any color change at all was with my DSB tank that had algae growing like crazy. Even then it was only reading .015. With my current tank I can't even get it to change color and I know my PO4's are not really 0, probably not even close.

wfgworks, how much are the Deltec kit refills and how many tests are they good for? I used to run the larges sized MRC reactor on my tank. I ran 1 L of Rowaphos in it and I never had a problem with it. I ended up selling it as I decided to stop running GFO's as I didn't see it benefitting me. I agree with you that, for the most part, a fluidized reactor is a fluidized reactor. As long as it has bottom up flow it should be fine.

dgasmd, The only person I know of that is getting them and selling them to us hobbiests at retail prices is Madison Bellanger. His screen name is OUinLA. You can PM him over on Z.... .com but I think he is in the middle of moving right now so may not be able to answer right away.

 

[wrassie86]

I have/had a newer salifert po4 kit that always read 0.i went out and bought a AQ po4 test kit and got a reading 1.0 then took action.the AQ now reads 0 and the salifert went in the trash.

 

[wfgworks]

How many GPH are you guys running through your Phosban reactors or whatever type reactor you are using for GFO?

 

[melev]

Mine is very slow. I have the ballvalve closed most of the way, and the powerhead is a MJ 600. The flow is trickling out of the reactors.

 

[wfgworks]

Travis

The refills (which includes both sets of chemicals) are $42 and give you 100 tests.