Levamisole In-Tank Treatment for AEFW
- Thread starter James404
- Start date
jcolletteiii
New member
I am fairly convinced that this treatment is a dead end - at least at low dosages. My own experiments with live flatworms and both prohibit and foye's levamisol have failed to kill aefw's at all but super-duper high concentrations that I would feel VERY uncomfortable introducing into my tank.
Will be doing a tank move in about a month. At that point I think I will set up a long-term quarantine tank, and start doing weekly dips using the Bayer protocol until they are destroyed. Hey, it was worth a shot, but didn't work for me.
Will be doing a tank move in about a month. At that point I think I will set up a long-term quarantine tank, and start doing weekly dips using the Bayer protocol until they are destroyed. Hey, it was worth a shot, but didn't work for me.
From what I'm reading, I, too, am pretty leery to do the in tank treatment. Those dosages would crash instantly any tank, I'd imagine.
I have made a decision to do NOTHING at this point. Today is the third week in a row that I've seen no flatworms blown off any coral.
I must have the version of flatworm that some people live with. And I'm personally ok with that.
I also put a hell of a test into action today (not me per say), as my melanarus died. I saw him swimming this morning right before the lights came on, and found him dead under a coral an hour ago, being dined on by the few remaining crabs I have (a bit ironic). So with him out, I will see if he was actually really controlling the flatworms as well as I think he was.
I do intend to have another, as I had him for three and a half years. He was my favorite fish. :worried2:
I believe ReefBum has done quite well living with them, and I think, at this point, I will too.
For fragging purposes, I will run a QT that they will go through for several weeks before being introduced to the frag tank. That way I'm still able to trade frags and sell with a clear conscience. I plan to use Bayer as a dip for the QT tank.
Good luck everyone! I plan to follow this closely for any developments. My prohibit will sit, unopened until I can either stomach the thought of losing everything, or if someone perfects the treatment. I do long for a pest free reef, though, but absolutely refuse to do so with risk of losing so many colonies.
Perhaps I will frag everything and run it through QT. Once that is done, I will move it to the frag tank and then consider treating. :debi:
cato
New England
Completely agree. ^^^
roberto_lopes
Member
Here in Brazil we have a medicine called "Ascaridil" that is Levamisole Clorhidrate. It's been quite efective over AEFW. I have tested and they die almost immediately at 1,2g / 300 Gallons.
I know people are testing without success Levamisole in-tank treatment but I think our medicine have other component that kill this thing also because here, they die even on that low concentration.
Will check the components tomorrow to post here.
I have trated my friend's tank this weekend with success as far as I can see. Will see the true on about one week.
I know people are testing without success Levamisole in-tank treatment but I think our medicine have other component that kill this thing also because here, they die even on that low concentration.
Will check the components tomorrow to post here.
I have trated my friend's tank this weekend with success as far as I can see. Will see the true on about one week.
roberto_lopes
Member
Ok Bax.
The treatment was on last friday. Today we took some colonies that had THOUSANDS of AEFW and NONE has fall from it.
We will wait for 6 or 7 days and dip again do see. But we will do at least 4 treatmens.
The treatment was on last friday. Today we took some colonies that had THOUSANDS of AEFW and NONE has fall from it.
We will wait for 6 or 7 days and dip again do see. But we will do at least 4 treatmens.
Islander84
Reefer
:beer: Roberto what concentration were you using..... how many grams per gallons?
How did you dose..how long...
How did you dose..how long...
Bax
Premium Member
In keeping with my policy of full disclosure of the good, the bad, the ugly of my reef keeping, I have to report on an incident in my system.
About mid last week, I found out that I need to move my offices by the end of the year, my system is in my office. So I came up with the bright idea of dosing the system once a month until that move as a insurance policy against seeing any AEFW rebound once I transfer stock to my new system that I will be setting up in my home (What is to be my last system! At least , that's what I tell my lovely wife! :lmao
So, I pulled my GAC and shut down my skimmer. Mixed up about 6 grams of Levi and dosed my roughly 320 gallon system. As has been the case with every dose, mini brittles and pods where getting trashed my clam did not look happy, and my fish began feeding like crazy on the bounty that floated into the water column. I went home planning to return in sixish hours to restart the skimmer. Life being as it is in my house, I did not get back till early the next morning, nearly twelve hours after the dose was dropped....
I really was not worried, not pleased about the delay in restarting the skimmer in particular, but not really concerned. After all, I have a huge amount of in tank flow and, I OD'd my system with 15 flippin grams of Levi and every motile critter survived. Right!!!????....
.... Not this time :headwallblue: My seven year old (1,000% reef safe) coral beauty and my six year old fox face (A bubble algea eating machine) were belly up. I am devistated by their loss! A few corals have shown some tissue loss but the majority are fine. The remainder of the critters seem OK. I am baffled by this system responce given the history of my previous treatments. I would add that a check on all params showed evrything else was within normal ranges.
Despite this loss, I am adamant that Levamisole is a critical tool in overcomming an infestation of AEFWs. I am now 100% convinced, that if you have a significant infestation, you are screwed, and you need to take the scoarched earth path to irradication. Aggressive fragging, disposal of bases, and heavy dipping along with isolation in an SPS only QT using Levi is the only route out. Your live rock must be left 100% acro free for at least 90 days (even cooked if you will) and Levi may be the way to assure its purged as well.
The best way to "treat" AEFWs remains not getting them! Establish an acro QT procedure now! Never add a coral that has not been QT'd and dipped, aggresively!
While fish and dipping may control them, my experience tells me these means will not irradicate the pests. At least not in my case, and my heniocus butterfly and coral beauty were avid FW eaters. Lesson is, be careful with Levamisol, while a good tool in fighting AEFWs, the "cure" may be problematic.
While the experiences posted in this thread have been helful in seeking a solution, what really needs to be done is a properly controlled study on Levi and AEFWs, in a lab setting. Maybe there's a young marine sience major out there looking for a senior project?
Anyway, continue trying, it is the only way we learn. :worried2:
About mid last week, I found out that I need to move my offices by the end of the year, my system is in my office. So I came up with the bright idea of dosing the system once a month until that move as a insurance policy against seeing any AEFW rebound once I transfer stock to my new system that I will be setting up in my home (What is to be my last system! At least , that's what I tell my lovely wife! :lmao
So, I pulled my GAC and shut down my skimmer. Mixed up about 6 grams of Levi and dosed my roughly 320 gallon system. As has been the case with every dose, mini brittles and pods where getting trashed my clam did not look happy, and my fish began feeding like crazy on the bounty that floated into the water column. I went home planning to return in sixish hours to restart the skimmer. Life being as it is in my house, I did not get back till early the next morning, nearly twelve hours after the dose was dropped....
I really was not worried, not pleased about the delay in restarting the skimmer in particular, but not really concerned. After all, I have a huge amount of in tank flow and, I OD'd my system with 15 flippin grams of Levi and every motile critter survived. Right!!!????....
.... Not this time :headwallblue: My seven year old (1,000% reef safe) coral beauty and my six year old fox face (A bubble algea eating machine) were belly up. I am devistated by their loss! A few corals have shown some tissue loss but the majority are fine. The remainder of the critters seem OK. I am baffled by this system responce given the history of my previous treatments. I would add that a check on all params showed evrything else was within normal ranges.
Despite this loss, I am adamant that Levamisole is a critical tool in overcomming an infestation of AEFWs. I am now 100% convinced, that if you have a significant infestation, you are screwed, and you need to take the scoarched earth path to irradication. Aggressive fragging, disposal of bases, and heavy dipping along with isolation in an SPS only QT using Levi is the only route out. Your live rock must be left 100% acro free for at least 90 days (even cooked if you will) and Levi may be the way to assure its purged as well.
The best way to "treat" AEFWs remains not getting them! Establish an acro QT procedure now! Never add a coral that has not been QT'd and dipped, aggresively!
While fish and dipping may control them, my experience tells me these means will not irradicate the pests. At least not in my case, and my heniocus butterfly and coral beauty were avid FW eaters. Lesson is, be careful with Levamisol, while a good tool in fighting AEFWs, the "cure" may be problematic.
While the experiences posted in this thread have been helful in seeking a solution, what really needs to be done is a properly controlled study on Levi and AEFWs, in a lab setting. Maybe there's a young marine sience major out there looking for a senior project?
Anyway, continue trying, it is the only way we learn. :worried2:
James404
I <3 Acros
Sorry to hear Bax. As for myself, I haven't been on as much lately due to a busy schedule and been kind of bummed out, but a few weeks ago I decided to stop dipping and all treatment of my 75, I'm afraid the infestation is just too much, all my SPS are about dead or STN'ng so I will be starting over with my 225g. All future corals will be going into a separate QT system for at least 4 weeks.
Sorry to here that! I feel your pain! My 60g cube I'm setting up for a QT arrived today. So I will be getting that going hopefully this week. All sps will go through QT before they make it into my DT. Gonna let my DT run for about 8 weeks with no sps, don't have any left anyways! 
will be starting from scratch.
will be starting from scratch.
Bax
Premium Member
The FWs are seemingly behind me. Although I maintain a watchful eye, it seems to me if pods, bristle worms and mini brittles can rebound, why not the AEFWs? This is the reason I decided to use monthly treatments until my new system goes on line.
Since this latest event, my SPS are doing well, all but one are recovering from the tissue loss that affected less then 25% of my SPS stock in my DT. Interestingly, my frag tank did not flintch, no harm to any inhabitants and at all.
I am blaming oxygen deprivation for the loss of the fish (Well, I am blaming myself, but I think this is what happened). Lack of oxygen, combined with the bad things that happen when large animals, and large numbers of small animals die in an aquarium caused the SPS tissue loss. The two fish I lost were my largest (the foxface) and my most active (the coral beauty). They were by far the largest users of oxygen in the population. My tank, inparticular the DT went thru a mini cycle of sorts following the several weeks of treatment with the Levi. There's been a mulm or sludge on the rock as a result of the mini cycle that lingers despite my efforts to remove it. This varies from my frag tank, in which the LR is very clean and supports a healthy growth of bubble algea. I have not reconnected my ozone set up since ending the Levi treatment either. I feel these things combined together to drop the bottom out of the O2 in the DT and I lost the two fish.
This is a huge reminder to anyone attempting the use of Levi in a system or a QT, to really keep an eye on aeration and get the skimmer back on line within about 4-6 hours.
Since this latest event, my SPS are doing well, all but one are recovering from the tissue loss that affected less then 25% of my SPS stock in my DT. Interestingly, my frag tank did not flintch, no harm to any inhabitants and at all.
I am blaming oxygen deprivation for the loss of the fish (Well, I am blaming myself, but I think this is what happened). Lack of oxygen, combined with the bad things that happen when large animals, and large numbers of small animals die in an aquarium caused the SPS tissue loss. The two fish I lost were my largest (the foxface) and my most active (the coral beauty). They were by far the largest users of oxygen in the population. My tank, inparticular the DT went thru a mini cycle of sorts following the several weeks of treatment with the Levi. There's been a mulm or sludge on the rock as a result of the mini cycle that lingers despite my efforts to remove it. This varies from my frag tank, in which the LR is very clean and supports a healthy growth of bubble algea. I have not reconnected my ozone set up since ending the Levi treatment either. I feel these things combined together to drop the bottom out of the O2 in the DT and I lost the two fish.
This is a huge reminder to anyone attempting the use of Levi in a system or a QT, to really keep an eye on aeration and get the skimmer back on line within about 4-6 hours.
roberto_lopes
Member
Well Bax, really sorry to hear about your loss. I have lost not less than 12 fishes to oodinium last month. Some with more than 7 years old. Believe me, I feel your pain.
About the "ascaridil" treatment. The medicine is too specific for flatworms and even on low concentrations, they die almost immediately.
The dosage was 1,2g / 300 gal. Thousands of AEFW begins to "fly" around after 2 minutes. We have socks and nets to catch them.
The SPS don't even close up the polyps during treatment.
We have basted the corals with powerheads until nothing falls. And the leave the tank for about 7 hours.
Put larges amounts of GAC back and NO water change was needed.
found some eggs on large bases of encrusted colonies. take them out with a knife and siphon it.
tomorrow will come the second dose. So far no AEFW was saw and no losses at all.
I'll post the results from the second treatment tomorrow night.
Regards
prop-frags
SPS Slave
Bax, so sorry to hear of your losses and it does sound like it was due to oxygen depletion... might I suggest that if you cannot allow your skimmer pump to run w/the cup removed to continue aeration during the treatment, that you add an air pump or 2 w/air stones? Some of these air pumps also have a battery backup and are the best "first line defense" during a power outage as well.
Bax
Premium Member
Thanks all for the kind words
prop-frags
I was doing a water change today. Noramlly I siphon alll detritus off the bottom of my BB display and frag tanks during this effort. Today, I moved a large slab of montipora cap that i just haven't moved in , well, nearly two months since my last Levi treatment and in that time, it has attached to the rocks. I siphoned out five gallons of sludge water that smelt absolutely anearobic. I mean NASTY! from this one area. I've never had that kind of build up before especially not during the Levi treatments.
Initiating a bio die off in this kind of poo pile is never a good thing in any system. .
I point out this detail as I agree with your assesment that aeration during the treatment is key. Previously, I've always relied on my in tank water movement. I applied this treatment exactly as I had done previously. The big difference, this monti slab hiding this sludge. And, I did not restart the skimmer in a timely maner. BIG mistake, HUGE!
SO:
Watch out for aeration;
Keep water moving vigorously;
Be leary of detritus build up and remove it before dosing;
and
Here's the big one, if you have an old DSB, or an SSB that is not regularly stired, be very certain you are prepared for potential colateral damage.
prop-frags
I was doing a water change today. Noramlly I siphon alll detritus off the bottom of my BB display and frag tanks during this effort. Today, I moved a large slab of montipora cap that i just haven't moved in , well, nearly two months since my last Levi treatment and in that time, it has attached to the rocks. I siphoned out five gallons of sludge water that smelt absolutely anearobic. I mean NASTY! from this one area. I've never had that kind of build up before especially not during the Levi treatments.
Initiating a bio die off in this kind of poo pile is never a good thing in any system. .
I point out this detail as I agree with your assesment that aeration during the treatment is key. Previously, I've always relied on my in tank water movement. I applied this treatment exactly as I had done previously. The big difference, this monti slab hiding this sludge. And, I did not restart the skimmer in a timely maner. BIG mistake, HUGE!
SO:
Watch out for aeration;
Keep water moving vigorously;
Be leary of detritus build up and remove it before dosing;
and
Here's the big one, if you have an old DSB, or an SSB that is not regularly stired, be very certain you are prepared for potential colateral damage.
Atomikk
SPS OG
Wow, that sucks. I always try to keep an eye on the pH levels in the tank. It can tell you if the water is depriverd of oxygen or not.
This is a definite case of oxygen deprivation. It is related to the use of Levamisole to a point. Leaving the Levamisole in for an extended amount of time would mean no airation via skimmer, and higher respiration rates in fish and corals (at night).
I can safely say that my display is AEFW free, having it dosed 3 times with Levamisole. But my display has 7 wrasses and 6 Angels, and a couple of camel shrimp. So in combination, I amanged to rid myself of these pests.
Good luck everyone.
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