levels in reef tanks

[reefD]

I preach that they need to be zero'ed . this helps lots of issues in coral tanks. can anyone else explain why slight levels need to be address before searching for another cause of negative coral survival?

 

[Cruella]

well maybe if the rest of the coral is doing fine and reproducing some one wouldn't know that there was a problem until one shows a sign of sickness. also most people who sell coral have been telling people time and time again that they will not die if nitrates are .5 so calm down the reef nazi~ its only a hobby something die some time. I can bet money that when you started you made mistakes

 

[jaze36]

I would say that slight levels increase in an other wise stable tank could come down to a bunch of things. A faulty or old test kits. Something has died in the tank that has not been found. A new or increased food source, and the tank has not caught up biologically to the increase. Something has been added to the tank that has cauesd nitrifing to die back. Poor tank husbandry. Lack of matainence.

I agree with you David, levels should be zero'ed, if nitrates go up to 10ppm or is that ppb, this would also be acceptable. I would say that slight levels need to be addressed because something is wrong in the tank, these are living things and they should have proper care. They are our responsibility.

On another note I killed my dog last summer by leaving him in a running car in a closed garage on a 97 degree day, for 8 hrs. No one ever told me not to do that, and he was just a pet. I hope the dog nazis don't get me. Sorry to be a jerk, just a reef nazi and a jr. member of the tang police. I know things die some times but I don't think they should die because we don't understand what we are doing. Reading and understanding helps to save money and a creatures life. JK about the dog, sorry to be a jerk, just my ideas on the hobby.

 

[TA]

This is actually a very interesting topic.

I've been reading quite a bit in the SPS forum about "nutrient levels" (whatever that means) and overall SPS "health". There is this idea out there that slightly elevated levels, achieved primarily through increased fish load (ie., fish poo) and feeding, can improve SPS growth/coloration. Check it out. This comes up quite a bit especially when people ask about sps coloration.

 

[jaze36]

Tony does that mean there should be a slight and dectable increase in ammonia and nitrite? Or does that mean having a little higher nitrate is ok? Or does skimming have to be adjusted as to not take to much out of the tank? Are we going to come full circle and in a few years are bio ball going to be the big thing? Just courious.

 

[reefD]

lol jaze36. im in your corner. i am not saying that we dont make mistakes when we are new to the hobby. but i think after a few mistakes we all took a step back and asked why. why does the exact coral thrive instantly in an other tank but not mine? you can blame a corals health over and over again but after every coral that i purchased slowly melted away i quickly stopped adding coral until i was certain they would survive. this took about 6 months. then i got a small frag from a member of the club and when it began to spread in a couple of days i knew something in the water was right on!
TA that sounds very interesting. I just question how high the levels can be ? when they occur slightly like you say im sure it can be beneficial. but could you imagine someone purposly over stocking thier tank and over feeding? i think you really have to worry about going over the line and be able to filtrate water fast if you go over board.
cruella sorry you are taking me the wrong way. I am always trying to be helpful . you post a thread and you get comments. no worries. actually in this hobby things really just dont die. 90% of the time any death in a saltwater reef tank occurs from stress that our tanks put on the animal. excluding things like shrimp and snails and some of the expert corals like sps and other rare varieties. as they tend to crash at times ....like RTN. as for fish they tend to die from stress or being attacked/eaten by another tank mate. again i am speaking of the easy type fish like damsels clowns gobies ect...
now stuff like anglers and other oddities tend to be difficult to care for.
best of luck

 

[TA]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7338841#post7338841 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jaze36
Tony does that mean there should be a slight and dectable increase in ammonia and nitrite?

No

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7338338#post7338338 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TA
..."nutrient levels" (whatever that means)...There is this idea out there that slightly elevated levels, achieved primarily through increased fish load (ie., fish poo) and feeding....

Emphasis is on "whatever that means".
Just posting what I've read in quite a few threads now.

 

[reefD]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7338290#post7338290 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jaze36
..........

On another note I killed my dog last summer by leaving him in a running car in a closed garage on a 97 degree day, for 8 hrs. No one ever told me not to do that, and he was just a pet. I hope the dog nazis don't get me. Sorry to be a jerk, just a reef nazi and a jr. member of the tang police. I know things die some times but I don't think they should die because we don't understand what we are doing. Reading and understanding helps to save money and a creatures life. JK about the dog, sorry to be a jerk, just my ideas on the hobby.

my ideas too.........does this make me a reef nazi?! whats that mean?
nazi were in germany and are noted for the anti semetic ideas that they had. heres a history link
http://www.cympm.com/history.html

anyways does a reef nazi mean you hate reefers like the nazi hated jewish people? or a reefer that has nazi views?


im just fooling around guys.... couldnt help analyzing whats a reefnazi. LOL

 

[reefD]

ahhhhh i get it. nutrient levels can be more than just ammonia nitrates and nitrites. so when they say nutrient levels it might be alot of things. right?

in any case great info TA!

keep us updated on anything else you hear about that.

 

[jaze36]

Just courious Tony, trying to get a better understanding.

 

[reefD]

im curious too...this topic is very interesting!

 

[TA]

My guess is that increasing fish load, and therefore increased feeding, ultimately leads to elevated levels of zooplankton which the sps feed on. Another example would be the beneficial use of phyto in an sps tank.....while sps don't feed on phyto directly, the phyto helps increase zooplankton which sps do feed on.

But, in no way does that mean that you want elevated amm, trites, trates, phosphates....you need to be prepared to export any excess before it reaches that state.

Then again, I may have this all wrong

 

[reefD]

interesting thought with the zooplankton. i totally agree with you that you need to prepared to export any excess before it become ammonia/trates.
im thinking it is something to do with plankton growth.
we need to keep this conversation going! lol seriously

 

[xian]

Here are my thoughts on this matter. I have heard it said by many of the experts, including Eric Bornman, that reefs are not nutrient starved. They are so rich that the nutrients often cycle without being noticed. This includes nitrates and phosphates. However we cannot come close to equalling the immense diversity of a reef in an aquarium and so our solution is to starve the inhabitants we don't want. ie turf algae
Without the algaes to absorb the nutrients they may start to build and then irritate our corals.

I have constantly been frustrated by the nagging presence of Nitrate in my water and I probably owe that to a fairly heavy bioload for a 55gal but since my crash I have stablized my system and some of my corals are nicer than ever. Especially the montiporas Which by some "conventional" wisdom I shouldn't be able to grow.