kathainbowen
New member
As prompted by the previous post of griping about lfs vs. online, I felt we needed an aside to address two very important things for newbies and all of us, in fact, to know about.
I'm coming across more and more of a startling trend. People who are excellent LFS staffers are walking away from the job, despite loving it, because of clients. My former manager, who I was very proud to have worked for, just left. Another respected staffer, both knowledgable and informative, told me the other day about how he wished he would get fired so he could finally get a break. And, so many clients are complaining about LFSs, moving to online trade.
There's definitely some issues we need to address- and on both ends of the spectrum here!
Proper LFS Manners (and RC applicable, too!)
1.) Ask, do not demand. Using foul language or harsh tones never got anyone anything, except for maybe more problems!
2.) Do your homework BEFORE you start asking questions. Your local library's books are most likely too old to offer credible, reliant advice. However, RC is filled with info filled stickies here and there, as well as informative articles. Tropical Fish Hobbyist always has fascinating articles. In the case of reef discussion, you really cannot go wrong with any book from Julian Sprung (he's also very candid and honest, I'm told, if you go to any of his lectures or discussions, as well as an excellent public speaker)
3.) Know your tank. Be aware of the size, equipment, water quality (pH, N02, NO3, ammonia, and SG!), feeding, and maintenance program. All of this information is absolutely crucial if you have an issue with your tank in diagnosing what truly is the problem. Sometimes, an omission of one of these details can be a critical missing clue in determining what to do with a tank. If you are not aware of this information, or, if you are afraid of forgetting, might I recommend purchasing a small, mini-notebook at your local grocery store or dollar store. You can record dates you did things, and what animals you added to your tank quickly and easily. If you're new, just make sure you always have this info with you, either in your head or on paper when you go to an LFS, just in case!
4.) Ask questions! I know, I know, I said to do your homework first, but, when you're stumped, asking questions is far better than staying silent! By a simple, quick question, you can solve yourself worlds of issues by catching things quickly.
5.) Be prepared to get asked questions. LFS staffers get to see TONS of people and hear about THOUSANDS of tanks each week in more popular locations. Chances are, unless you go every other day, it's going to take a while for them to start remembering your tank at all. So don't be offended if you're a regular and the staff repeats the same questions to you a few times. That, and don't forget your little notebook with stats if you have a poor memory!
6.) Be prepared that the answers you get might not be the ones you like. Sure, that 18" bamboo shark is cute, and, yeah, you could shoehorn him into 75 if you felt like it, but chances are your LFS staff is going to tell you no. Perhaps the answers might point to poor care or lack of experience. Just be prepared for this and try to listen with open ears. Not all LFSs are on a comission pay, so it's more likely in the LFSs best interest to offer you open and candid advice than to try to push products on you. More often, it is far better to let a quick, small profit go, than to end up losing a lifelong client.
7.) Remember your basic etiquette and manners. You don't go to a restuarant and treat the staff poorly or drive away other customers and NOT expect to get Visine in your drinks or spit in your hamburger. Try to think of it as how you would speak to someone you respect as an adult or another human being. Show them the same courtesy and social decorum you wish to be shown in return. This includes manners your mother taught you as a child, such as not going through your neighbors things while at their house. So keep your hands to yourself, don't hit the tanks or muck things up, and especially keep your mits out of tanks!!! Big no no! Otherwise, the LFS staff is more likely to treat you like a child, talk down to you, or just address you as an ignorant person that is beneath them (*yes, many so-called "elitists" among LFS staffers were trained to be that way by customers showing them poor manners!)
8.) Talking about how online is cheaper, by the way, is exceptionally rude and a good way to get the cold shoulder or kicked out the door. Remember, many LFSs are small businesses which are still trying to figure out how they fit into this world with internet sales of livestock. Some businesses are embracing it, some are avoiding the issue, and others are being crushed by it. But, if you worked in a custom furniture store, you'd probably be pretty mad if I told a customer in front of you that they could mail-order it from Ikea for cheaper.
9.) If you do shop online, here's a tip.... keep it on the downlow. Telling an LFS staff that you shop at an online vendor over them is a quick way to make the staff feel used, particularly if you ask them a lot of questions without purchases. Remember, they are not your college professors who are getting paid by the your school. The LFS staffs need time to answer other peoples' questions and address their issues as well, so, if you're not going to buy anything or patronage their store, don't waste time that could be better used to help another customer. Take your issue to RC or your local clubs/society forums, or wait for a day you know it is not usually busy (like weekdays, and NOT on days when orders arrive) so they won't mind chewing the fat for a while.
10.) Follow their policies and be aware of them! Okay, this really is more in your favor. Such as knowing a return policy and being aware of what to do for a refund. All LFSs pretty much demand a sample of a water in a separate container and the deceased animal to even consider a refund, this is just standard procedure. Others may require a receipt of sales. Just be aware of this. But, on the same token, being aware of their policies could clue you into group buys, special sales, or discounts for club or aquarium society members!
11.) Take all advice with a grain of salt. This includes advice from online, other customers, and LFS staffs. We're not all experts, and fish/corals are just harder to diagnose than other animals, which are worse still that diagnosing people, since we can't communicate with them! That, and information as well as research into this ever evolving field is always changing, so keep reading and keep abreast of info. If it seems questionable or doubtful, do more homework before commiting to advice that could be shady.
And, not to be left out in this discussion of appropriate behavior.
And selecting a good LFS
1.) A good LFS is staffed with friendly, knowledgable people. Seek a place where you are comfortable and you trust the information being given. However, you must understand, these are also humans who can have bad days from time to time, and this is a rough business, with many people still insisting on using techniques we now consider to be unethical, neglectful, and, at times, downright barbaric. So, if you have a bad experience one day, you may need to try a second time just to be sure. And, sometimes, this also includes staff who are smart enough to know when a question is just beyond their knowledge and you need to seek a second, more informed source.
2.) A good LFS is well stocked with at the very least your essential products, or is capable of ordering them for you. Frozen foods, staple foods, chemicals, buffers, medicines, nets, etc. There are just about thousands of different lighting of tank combinations out there that could never fit in your average LFS, so make sure they can order what you want so you don't settle for less!
3.) Any LFS is going to have deaths in fish stock, because shipping, unfortunately, isn't always perfect. Fish can, and do, arrive sick or injured for any number of reasons. Or, once in the stock tanks, they could be injured by other fish. However, seek an LFS which can quaranteen fish and/or treat when sick, as well as refuse to sell sick or injured fish.
4.) A good LFS will shy away from fish farms or importers known for poor quality stock. There are a few I could name, but I shall not for fear of the mods coming after me. I'll leave that for your independent research!
5.) A good LFS is staffed by people who will encourage research over purchase if you are unsure of an animal's care or keeping. Yes, you can buy a particular animal, and it'll be a quick, good sale, but that doesn't mean the animal is going to be the right fit for you, your personality, your tank, or your lifestyle. When in doubt, crack the books out!
6.) A good LFS generally ALWAYS has some access to either books or research materials which they can offer customers to back up their claims or information if a customer is still unsure. Whether this is, at the very least, a link or suggestion to check out a website, or something physical, like Julian Spring's Algae: A Problem Solver's Guide, it doesn't matter. But any LFS worth it's salt should have some reading material either available in the store, or know where to find it online. It's good to reassure people that what they are doing is right.
7.) A good LFS has a return policy in regards to deceased fish. And, unfortunately, as a part of this, you must also understand that return policies are going to involve their rules- see above. But, if they cannot credit a refund for the animal, especially due to issues with water quality, a good LFS is going to try to help you out with getting things back on track.
8.) A good LFS, however, will seek out the issue that caused a fish to die or tank to suddenly change through water testing or other means. As I stated in the previous tip, a good LFS will help you try to straighten things out. This could include helping you make out a plan of action for dosing or water change schedule. Other LFSs might give you a small sample of a chemical or a food to try on a picky eater if you just need a small portion. And, sometimes, other means might involve photos (such as discovering that the culprit might be an aggression animal due to a lack of appropriate and ample territory- most often the case with african cichlid issues!)
9.) A good LFS is clean, organized, and welcoming seeming.
10.) A good LFS is staffed with people who can openly and honestly tell you the care program at that location, including feeding and water changing schedules.If their is an issue with their stock, they should be more than capable of informing you of any current changes or situations which aren't desired.
11.) A good LFS is always striving to become a stellar, super-awesome, amazingly fantastic LFS. Whether this is by getting new livestock in, trying out new products, or engaging in new things like fragging demos or hosting clubs, a good LFS is always striving to become better. Their staff is actively working to get new info, either by research, reading, lectures, discussion groups, or even forums like RC.
..... did I miss anything?
I'm coming across more and more of a startling trend. People who are excellent LFS staffers are walking away from the job, despite loving it, because of clients. My former manager, who I was very proud to have worked for, just left. Another respected staffer, both knowledgable and informative, told me the other day about how he wished he would get fired so he could finally get a break. And, so many clients are complaining about LFSs, moving to online trade.
There's definitely some issues we need to address- and on both ends of the spectrum here!
Proper LFS Manners (and RC applicable, too!)
1.) Ask, do not demand. Using foul language or harsh tones never got anyone anything, except for maybe more problems!
2.) Do your homework BEFORE you start asking questions. Your local library's books are most likely too old to offer credible, reliant advice. However, RC is filled with info filled stickies here and there, as well as informative articles. Tropical Fish Hobbyist always has fascinating articles. In the case of reef discussion, you really cannot go wrong with any book from Julian Sprung (he's also very candid and honest, I'm told, if you go to any of his lectures or discussions, as well as an excellent public speaker)
3.) Know your tank. Be aware of the size, equipment, water quality (pH, N02, NO3, ammonia, and SG!), feeding, and maintenance program. All of this information is absolutely crucial if you have an issue with your tank in diagnosing what truly is the problem. Sometimes, an omission of one of these details can be a critical missing clue in determining what to do with a tank. If you are not aware of this information, or, if you are afraid of forgetting, might I recommend purchasing a small, mini-notebook at your local grocery store or dollar store. You can record dates you did things, and what animals you added to your tank quickly and easily. If you're new, just make sure you always have this info with you, either in your head or on paper when you go to an LFS, just in case!
4.) Ask questions! I know, I know, I said to do your homework first, but, when you're stumped, asking questions is far better than staying silent! By a simple, quick question, you can solve yourself worlds of issues by catching things quickly.
5.) Be prepared to get asked questions. LFS staffers get to see TONS of people and hear about THOUSANDS of tanks each week in more popular locations. Chances are, unless you go every other day, it's going to take a while for them to start remembering your tank at all. So don't be offended if you're a regular and the staff repeats the same questions to you a few times. That, and don't forget your little notebook with stats if you have a poor memory!
6.) Be prepared that the answers you get might not be the ones you like. Sure, that 18" bamboo shark is cute, and, yeah, you could shoehorn him into 75 if you felt like it, but chances are your LFS staff is going to tell you no. Perhaps the answers might point to poor care or lack of experience. Just be prepared for this and try to listen with open ears. Not all LFSs are on a comission pay, so it's more likely in the LFSs best interest to offer you open and candid advice than to try to push products on you. More often, it is far better to let a quick, small profit go, than to end up losing a lifelong client.
7.) Remember your basic etiquette and manners. You don't go to a restuarant and treat the staff poorly or drive away other customers and NOT expect to get Visine in your drinks or spit in your hamburger. Try to think of it as how you would speak to someone you respect as an adult or another human being. Show them the same courtesy and social decorum you wish to be shown in return. This includes manners your mother taught you as a child, such as not going through your neighbors things while at their house. So keep your hands to yourself, don't hit the tanks or muck things up, and especially keep your mits out of tanks!!! Big no no! Otherwise, the LFS staff is more likely to treat you like a child, talk down to you, or just address you as an ignorant person that is beneath them (*yes, many so-called "elitists" among LFS staffers were trained to be that way by customers showing them poor manners!)
8.) Talking about how online is cheaper, by the way, is exceptionally rude and a good way to get the cold shoulder or kicked out the door. Remember, many LFSs are small businesses which are still trying to figure out how they fit into this world with internet sales of livestock. Some businesses are embracing it, some are avoiding the issue, and others are being crushed by it. But, if you worked in a custom furniture store, you'd probably be pretty mad if I told a customer in front of you that they could mail-order it from Ikea for cheaper.
9.) If you do shop online, here's a tip.... keep it on the downlow. Telling an LFS staff that you shop at an online vendor over them is a quick way to make the staff feel used, particularly if you ask them a lot of questions without purchases. Remember, they are not your college professors who are getting paid by the your school. The LFS staffs need time to answer other peoples' questions and address their issues as well, so, if you're not going to buy anything or patronage their store, don't waste time that could be better used to help another customer. Take your issue to RC or your local clubs/society forums, or wait for a day you know it is not usually busy (like weekdays, and NOT on days when orders arrive) so they won't mind chewing the fat for a while.
10.) Follow their policies and be aware of them! Okay, this really is more in your favor. Such as knowing a return policy and being aware of what to do for a refund. All LFSs pretty much demand a sample of a water in a separate container and the deceased animal to even consider a refund, this is just standard procedure. Others may require a receipt of sales. Just be aware of this. But, on the same token, being aware of their policies could clue you into group buys, special sales, or discounts for club or aquarium society members!
11.) Take all advice with a grain of salt. This includes advice from online, other customers, and LFS staffs. We're not all experts, and fish/corals are just harder to diagnose than other animals, which are worse still that diagnosing people, since we can't communicate with them! That, and information as well as research into this ever evolving field is always changing, so keep reading and keep abreast of info. If it seems questionable or doubtful, do more homework before commiting to advice that could be shady.
And, not to be left out in this discussion of appropriate behavior.
And selecting a good LFS
1.) A good LFS is staffed with friendly, knowledgable people. Seek a place where you are comfortable and you trust the information being given. However, you must understand, these are also humans who can have bad days from time to time, and this is a rough business, with many people still insisting on using techniques we now consider to be unethical, neglectful, and, at times, downright barbaric. So, if you have a bad experience one day, you may need to try a second time just to be sure. And, sometimes, this also includes staff who are smart enough to know when a question is just beyond their knowledge and you need to seek a second, more informed source.
2.) A good LFS is well stocked with at the very least your essential products, or is capable of ordering them for you. Frozen foods, staple foods, chemicals, buffers, medicines, nets, etc. There are just about thousands of different lighting of tank combinations out there that could never fit in your average LFS, so make sure they can order what you want so you don't settle for less!
3.) Any LFS is going to have deaths in fish stock, because shipping, unfortunately, isn't always perfect. Fish can, and do, arrive sick or injured for any number of reasons. Or, once in the stock tanks, they could be injured by other fish. However, seek an LFS which can quaranteen fish and/or treat when sick, as well as refuse to sell sick or injured fish.
4.) A good LFS will shy away from fish farms or importers known for poor quality stock. There are a few I could name, but I shall not for fear of the mods coming after me. I'll leave that for your independent research!
5.) A good LFS is staffed by people who will encourage research over purchase if you are unsure of an animal's care or keeping. Yes, you can buy a particular animal, and it'll be a quick, good sale, but that doesn't mean the animal is going to be the right fit for you, your personality, your tank, or your lifestyle. When in doubt, crack the books out!
6.) A good LFS generally ALWAYS has some access to either books or research materials which they can offer customers to back up their claims or information if a customer is still unsure. Whether this is, at the very least, a link or suggestion to check out a website, or something physical, like Julian Spring's Algae: A Problem Solver's Guide, it doesn't matter. But any LFS worth it's salt should have some reading material either available in the store, or know where to find it online. It's good to reassure people that what they are doing is right.
7.) A good LFS has a return policy in regards to deceased fish. And, unfortunately, as a part of this, you must also understand that return policies are going to involve their rules- see above. But, if they cannot credit a refund for the animal, especially due to issues with water quality, a good LFS is going to try to help you out with getting things back on track.
8.) A good LFS, however, will seek out the issue that caused a fish to die or tank to suddenly change through water testing or other means. As I stated in the previous tip, a good LFS will help you try to straighten things out. This could include helping you make out a plan of action for dosing or water change schedule. Other LFSs might give you a small sample of a chemical or a food to try on a picky eater if you just need a small portion. And, sometimes, other means might involve photos (such as discovering that the culprit might be an aggression animal due to a lack of appropriate and ample territory- most often the case with african cichlid issues!)
9.) A good LFS is clean, organized, and welcoming seeming.
10.) A good LFS is staffed with people who can openly and honestly tell you the care program at that location, including feeding and water changing schedules.If their is an issue with their stock, they should be more than capable of informing you of any current changes or situations which aren't desired.
11.) A good LFS is always striving to become a stellar, super-awesome, amazingly fantastic LFS. Whether this is by getting new livestock in, trying out new products, or engaging in new things like fragging demos or hosting clubs, a good LFS is always striving to become better. Their staff is actively working to get new info, either by research, reading, lectures, discussion groups, or even forums like RC.
..... did I miss anything?
