LFS with attitude

Hi TAMike97,
Sorry you had so much trouble with your 75 G. It does sound like your system is clearing up now. I made sure my skimmer would handle the load - it's made for a system that's about 50 to 75 g more than what I have. I also have a good sized refugium, I'm sure it's not doing much right now but later I think it will help keep things in check. You mentioned using mangroves in your refugium, I think that would be cool. I saw some at FAOIS last week when I had stopped in. I guess the idea is that the rots do the filtering?
 
I keep a shallow sand bed and just clean it regularly (and periodically remove and replace sand). Works fine and my watchman goby and pistol shrimp seem pretty happy. Nitrates are unmeasureable and I've never seen any mini-cycles from disturbing the sand bed.
 
It does sound like a shallow bed might be the way to go when you're into borrowing livestock - such as the goby. What depth would you say it is? I'm interested because the watchman is one of the gobies I'd like to get. As I said mine is 3 at most 4 inches at this time. I will be keeping all this information on hand just in case I do have any problems - not that I'm anticipating any.
 
I personally have a shallow sand bed in my 200g. It is maybe 1.5 inches at its deepest part. I only used like 100lbs of sand. It is very easy to keep clean. I just stir it up once a week. I had a sand sifter goby that burrowed his home under 1 of my rocks. He seemed to be very happy with the shallow sand bed. Just my 2 cents.
 
So it seems yours is about half what I have. I wonder if they just go more horizonal with their burrows rather than vertical. Kind of if it's there I'll use it, but if not that's fine I'll use what I have. I do think for them to act for feel at home they need to be provided with some substrate - just how much is the key. Getting to that happy middle - ease of care, shallow enough so it can breath but still deep enough to keep the little ones happy. I'd read that gobies need something like 3 inches of substrate, but now my question is "what was that based on"?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8192801#post8192801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefArtist
Oh Matt I might have to take you up on the offer
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Any time.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8192801#post8192801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefArtist
I'm wondering if poknsnok is talking about LPS's that like to be placed in the sand. I'm not an LPS expert so I'm not sure but kind of like putting a borrowing goby in a BB - just a thought.
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That may be...but he's likely referring to the "common" knowledge that LPS and softies prefer more nutrient rich water and therefore have trouble flourishing the the super clean water that is typical of bare bottom systems. I've never actually seen any evidence that proves this. They obviously need to feed, but there're ways to address that in tanks with pristine water quality.

There are some LPS species that I've avoided because their natural habitat is resting on the sand.
 
I'm not positive, but I'd guess my sand ranges from 1" to even 3" where the flow backs some up into a dune. I'd guess I have about 40-50#s of sand in my 110. The goby bounces from deeper areas in the back to some shallower spots and the pistol chose to dig under a rock which has maybe 1" of sand under it.
 
Since I'm getting ready to run 5 big setups at school...I'm tempted to try each of the different methods and compare the results.
 
Now that would be very interesting and what an experience for the kids. Boy I wish I had a teacher like you when I was young! What age do you teach?
 
LadyFSU - I just took a look at your web site. Big kids, do you have them do the research? If you need some help I'd be more than willing. I see that you need some items - is your list up to date?
 
hey well i have a 10 gallon i just set up, and i wasnt aware about the burrowing fish NEEDING the sand. i am going to get a high fin goby and have just under an inch of sand in there... i just assumed he would make a tunnel other the LR or something with the pistol shrimp. I really didnt think a tunnel would hold up in the aragonite sand anyways. should i add more? or cc?
 
Hi Playa0069u,
I just looked the high fin up (Very beautiful fish) and it does say that they need places to burrow and that they prefer presence of substrate. Now the question is the depth of the substrate - is the one inch enough? Anyone out there have experience with the High Fin Goby?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8192399#post8192399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luminary
I beg to differ! My tank is predominanetly LPS and softies. I feed heavily knowing that my tank can handle it and everything remains quite healthy.
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mine were much happier in my "sandy tank" my leather was much more extended and my frogspawn too... could be the ozone i run too. ive read that lps dont like that either. it was just my opinion and my experience. My sps sure like the bareness.. :)
 
I am surpised no one has said this yet....

BB tanks, IMO, look unnatural and kind of weird. I love looking at my sandbed and watching all the critters and other stuff that are there.

Also, I like trying to recreate nature in my tank as much as possible (especially on a budget). Sand is an inexpensive way to do that. I have never seen a reef without a sandbed!

Further, so what if your nitrates are a little high. If my tank was perfect all the time it would be boring! I like constantly tweaking my setup to run as best as possible without drastically changing it such as taking out my sandbed.
 
Leathers and softies like more nutrients due to there placement in the reef. They are predominately found in the beginning (start of the flow) of the reef. For instance the general flow of the Great Barrier Reef flows south with most of the rivers dumping water at the northern part of the reef. These rivers are rich in nutrients from the run off of the land. The water then gets filtered by the leathers and softies so that by the time it gets down to the southern areas of the reef sps become more dominate. I am not saying that there are none of each in both N & S but the dominance is there. It is also interesting to see that Montis are in the middle along with LPS.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8197397#post8197397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MikeBrke
I am surpised no one has said this yet....

BB tanks, IMO, look unnatural and kind of weird. I love looking at my sandbed and watching all the critters and other stuff that are there.

Also, I like trying to recreate nature in my tank as much as possible (especially on a budget). Sand is an inexpensive way to do that. I have never seen a reef without a sandbed!
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I've also never seen one with 4 glass walls ;). I have however seen flourishing reefs hundreds of feet wide with only sand on the outside. Think of a barebottom tank as being similiar to a reef crest. There are plenty of examples in the ocean of a reef with no sand anywhere near. Can you tell there's no sand in the tank? Of course. Once the bottom gets covered with coraline it's really not noticable.

Let's face it, our tanks are NOT a recreation of nature no matter how much we try to pretend they are. We attempt to provide the best conditions suitable for sustaining the health of our livestock. We do this by using techniques that may or may not exist in the wild, but strive to deliver the same end result. Some of us feel that sand does that, some of us do not. IMO, the rapid nutrient export that a barebottom system provides is much closer to the "real" reef.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8197607#post8197607 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaddyJax
Leathers and softies like more nutrients due to there placement in the reef. They are predominately found in the beginning (start of the flow) of the reef. For instance the general flow of the Great Barrier Reef flows south with most of the rivers dumping water at the northern part of the reef. These rivers are rich in nutrients from the run off of the land. The water then gets filtered by the leathers and softies so that by the time it gets down to the southern areas of the reef sps become more dominate. I am not saying that there are none of each in both N & S but the dominance is there. It is also interesting to see that Montis are in the middle along with LPS.
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They're also commonly found on the outer reef slope, as well as on deep water reefs (such as the lower part of reef walls). I suspect that their location in the wild has just as much to do with light intensity than with nutrient availability.

I think it's also worth pointing out that the "nutrients" that we're talking about in the wild aren't necessarily concentrated nitrate and phosphate. There's a much more complex relationship on the real reef. For instance, higher NO3 and PO4 will be more conductive to the growth of phytoplankton (which in turn can yield higher zooplankton). Both of which may provide a better food source for softies and LPS. That may equate to a higher concentration of these species in areas that are higher in NO3 and PO4. That doesn't mean that an aquarium with a higher concentration of those compounds is preferable because we won't have the full cycle in our tanks. Instead, they'll just be sitting in dirty water. Given that, it's preferable to provide as clean a tank as possible and feed heavily.

Does anyone have any scientific resources on the topic? I tried googling for it but gave up after wading through 10 pages of aquarium related sites. My comments are all based on speculation and anecdotal evidence. I'd like to see what the people who really know about this say.
 
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