Lighting cubes, how to determine light needed?

[ahud]

Hello,

I am trying to decide on a tank size with lighting being the number one factor deciding how big I go. I don't want a larger tank with a ton of lighting because my apartment seems to get humidity problems easily. I would like to go LED, but I would only want to buy one fixture. If I go t5, I want to stick with a 4 bulb fixture or under just due to heat and humidity.

It would be helpful if you guys could suggest some options I could try. I have been reading about lighting for a few weeks now, but I am still confused.

So what would I need to keep softies and LPS in:

18x18x18 cube

24x24x18 cube

Thank you

 

[rtparty]

An 18" Ecoxotic Panorama PRO fixture will work for either tank if you are looking LED. An EcoTech Radion will also work for either tank.

For T5's, there are no good T5 setups for the 18" tank so the 24" tank is the better choice here. However, 4 bulbs will NOT cut it on the 24x24 tank. You will need at least 6 bulbs for coverage. ATI Sunpower would work or you can get a standard Tek.

If heat is really a concern then LED is better bet. The 18" Ecoxotic fixture will come with 3 modules, an in-line dimmer and cost about $400.

 

[SkullV]

I used a 20" Nova Extreme Pro over my 18" cube and it grew SPS very well. The color was kind of frosty (Just blue and white) and there are limited bulb replacement choices (UVL and Current) but if you can handle that it is a great little fixture.

This is using that light with the stock bulbs:

 

[ahud]

Thank you for taking the time to give me well thought out responses! I will look into your suggestions.

I have received mixed answers about the 24x24 cube, some say 4 bulb will cut it, others say it won't. For you guys using the nova extreme pro, is that a 6 bulb fixture or 4?

 

[ahud]

Thank you for taking the time to give me well thought out responses! I will look into your suggestions.

I have received mixed answers about the 24x24 cube, some say 4 bulb will cut it, others say it won't. For you guys using the nova extreme pro, is that a 6 bulb fixture or 4?

 

[SkullV]

Thank you for taking the time to give me well thought out responses! I will look into your suggestions.

I have received mixed answers about the 24x24 cube, some say 4 bulb will cut it, others say it won't. For you guys using the nova extreme pro, is that a 6 bulb fixture or 4?

6 bulb. It's not the cream of the crop (ATI/TEK) as far as T5 fixtures are concerned, but it is certainly enough for an 18" deep tank where the fixture is almost as wide as the tank.

 

[ahud]

If I only keep mushrooms, zoas, and GSP does my lighting needs drop significantly?

 

[Chris27]

If I only keep mushrooms, zoas, and GSP does my lighting needs drop significantly?

Yep.

 

[mussel and hate]

If heat is really a concern then LED is better bet.

^This.

I don't think you should consider fluorescent lights at all. From the builds here on RC LEDs seem to provide equivalent light output at about half the wattage and without semi-annual bulb replacement costs.

 

[m2434]

LEDs seem to provide equivalent light output at about half the wattage and without semi-annual bulb replacement costs.

Most lighting is pretty comparable light output to watts. Most of the benefits come from focusing the light on the correct areas of the tank. For example, to compare to a MH, I think an LED will be about equivalent to a MH on a cube, if using the best reflectors and bulbs available with the halide. On a rectangular tank LEDs may be twice as efficient, overall, compared to a metal halide, but this is mostly because the MH is leaking a lot of light over the front and back. If you take a MH, and put it over a 24"x24" cube and use say a lumen-bright reflector, which is designed to light a 24"x24" area, then the MH should actually be more efficient and produce more PAR per watt (on average - not talking about at a specific point) over the tank.

For example, if you look at Sanjays comparison here, of different lighting sources, LEDs are not more efficient per watt when you consider the spread. However, if you don't need all the spread, they can get much more efficient as you are only using the light you actually need by directing it well (of course this is assuming you have the correct optics and power to cover your tank well).

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature2


Bulb replacement is a big benefit though. Remember though, LEDs do loose output over time, so, ideally, if you go that route, you want something that produced more PAR than needed and is dimable, so that you can increase the output over time.

And LEDs definitely do better heat wise, as the heat is distributed in such a way that it is more manageable (although, supposedly LEDs actually waste more energy as heat than halides. It just goes out the back through the heatsink and away, rather than getting trapped int he reflector and radiating downward, as is the case with a halide).

 

[mussel and hate]

You're totally right I misrepresented that. LEDs enjoy only a marginal effiecieny advantage. I should have said that LEDs don't suffer the same reflective losses as MH or Fluoros since they are directional emitters. This allows use of less total wattage since more useful light hits the target before bouncing though probably not twice as much.

I think the latest LEDs from cree are about 53% efficient which should put them in the same ballpark as the very best high par MH lamps but with a longer service life.

I wouldn't buy fluoros. The expense of replacement lamps and the toxic waste is difficult to justify.

 

[rtparty]

You're totally right I misrepresented that. LEDs enjoy only a marginal effiecieny advantage. I should have said that LEDs don't suffer the same reflective losses as MH or Fluoros since they are directional emitters. This allows use of less total wattage since more useful light hits the target before bouncing though probably not twice as much.

I think the latest LEDs from cree are about 53% efficient which should put them in the same ballpark as the very best high par MH lamps but with a longer service life.

I wouldn't buy fluoros. The expense of replacement lamps and the toxic waste is difficult to justify.

Your last sentence makes no sense. MH have to replaced just as often, if not more, than T5s. A MH bulb has WAY more mercury in it then a T5 does. Heck, if a MH bulb breaks you should probably call hazmat out to clean it up!

 

[cody6766]

If you go with a 24" tank you'll want 6 T5 bulbs for coverage concerns. It also gives you a color advantage. 4 is fine for a 18" tank, but 6 is good too. If you go with an ATI fixture, you could probably run a 4x 24" and be just fine on either tank. If you go with a Tek or Nova light, go with my first bit of advice. I have a 6 bulb Tek and have played with 4 and 6 bulbs on a 40 breeder and a 30 cube (similar dimensions to both cubes you're considering).

Personally, I think I prefer MH. I started the hobby with it and I'm going back to it. I now have a 250w SE Radium over my 30 cube in a lumenarc mini reflector (DIY). I'm wanting to add some actinics over it for color, but the light is more than sufficient with the MH bulb. A 175 or 150w in a good reflector would also be fine for either as well.

 

[mussel and hate]

Your last sentence makes no sense. MH have to replaced just as often, if not more, than T5s. A MH bulb has WAY more mercury in it then a T5 does. Heck, if a MH bulb breaks you should probably call hazmat out to clean it up!

I was contrasting LED with fluorescent lamps. The fluorescents contain mercury and have a short effective lifespan. I hope that clears up the confusion.

 

[rtparty]

I was contrasting LED with fluorescent lamps. The fluorescents contain mercury and have a short effective lifespan. I hope that clears up the confusion.

Yes that does, thank you.

One thing I will say is this, don't be surprised when LEDs don't last more than 3-4 years. I know some people think they will but I just don't see it.

T5's were supposed to last 2 years with no cooling needed. Yeah, we figured out that was bunch of crap pretty quick. 6 months is the longest to go on T5s if they are not cooled. You can go 12 months if you cool them.

I sure hope LEDs last longer but history tends to repeat itself.

 

[ahud]

Good discussion going on. I tend to agree, LED seems too good to be true at the moment, but the lack of heat is a pretty big benefit itself.

If I went with the bigger 24x24x18 cube, would you guys still give the same lighting suggestions for zoas, shrooms, and gsp? I want a bigger tank, but heat, humidity, and cost associated with lighting are whats holding me back. I'm trying to find that balance between size and lighting. It won't do me much good to have a nice tank that makes my apartment uncomfortable.