lighting feedback needed.

[dots]

The T5/MH debate is very hot currently.....in fact there is a poll in the SPS forum about this currently.( http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1012222)I think you will find most "old school" reefers will use SE MH lighting, Ca Reactors, and even VHO supplementation.

Newer technologies such as T5, DEs, and 2-part supplementation are comming into thier own and have been shown to be viable alternatives to the old standbys.

The choice between T5 and MH come down to these differences:

T5s are best used in low profile conditions where a MH pendant would be too close to the water.

T5s put out less heat than MHs

T5s (If I remember correctly) are more effecient per watt

MHs have different wattages that range from 150w-1000w

Wider (IMO) bulb selection

More intense (per above) due to point source generation vs spread out over the length of the bulb.

Have the "shimmer" effect that everyone loves.

-IMO T5s look washed out and I believe that the "color tuneability" with MH bulbs is greater, but I believe this difference will probably disappear in the future due to new T5 bulbs introduced. Bulbs in MH differ by Kelvin ratings and even the same rated K rating from manufacturer from manufacturer varies. With MH the light will punch through the water down to the bottom and still have enough PAR to give clams and SPS enough light energy to thrive on the bottom of deep tanks. Yes, MH tend to use more electricity. Yes they tend to put out more heat, so a chiller may be required. I believe the right "look" of the tank is one of the most important things and only MH give what I want when I think "reef tank". A chiller IMO should be standard equipment to keep the tank within range, much like a heater.......if one can arque about not having a chiller, the same arquement can be used in not having a heater.....and that is one of the first pieces of hardware we buy.

T5s or MH will support clams or SPS or Anenome, which are the most light dependent specie.....either choice will do. It just comes down to personal preference.......I prefer MH......250w DE. Even then, the choice between DE and SE the line becomes even fuzzier as it comes down to personal experience and preference......Some say/said that DEs are more intense that SEs....I still am unsure of this, cuz most of the SEs I ever see are 20K Radiums.........I am almost starting to wonder if there are any other SE bulbs used?

Either way, do some research and spend the extra money now on a quality setup and mentioned....PFO, coralife etc.....are good choices.

With either decision you have the option to buy a "plug and play" kit or build a retrofit kit from parts to fit under a canopy or save yourself some money.

If you still don't want to spend the money on a new quality setup, find a quality used one. Lighting is definatly something you want to invest wisely in because it not only keeps your tank growing strong and health, but quality craftmanship can be the difference between life and death of your family.

 

[pcurry18]

well, that is some really good info. I guess im going to do more research on top of my 500 hours already. Does anyone know of a T5 designer in SAC that can custom make them to my tank? Im not an electician and have know clue as to where to start.

 

[pepe.king.prawn]

Sounds like your best bet with T5's is to buy a canopy for the tank. You should be alright DIY'ing them in thereafter. Canopy + retrofit T5's is pretty easy.

Interesting poll dots. I think a lot of those results stem from the fact that the average SPS keeper has changed a lot now that many more people are keeping SPS. Many hardcore growers I know still have SE 400's or 1000 MH, Ca reactors and maybe a couple additives.

Anyhow, good luck in your decision, let us know what you end up with or if you need help installing lights etc.

 

[pcurry18]

I think im at the point of begging someone to send me a link and say buy this you will never regret it. In fact i am almost at the point where i will higher someone to come over, determine what i need and buy it. Im so frustrated now. I here all about High end T5s, bulb combination and many other things...i want to buy this one http://www.aquauniverse.com/compone.../category_id,51/option,com_phpshop/Itemid,31/ is it sufficient if i got with 6 daylight 10ks and 2 actinic and maybe put my 24" inch T5 in the back of my aquarium. PLEASE HELP! Im going bonkers over this information overload. I will even give out free RO/DI water to anyone who will help, hell i might even loan out my girlfriend at this point in time. GRRRRRRR

 

[rockwyld]

Hey Paul, bring your new canopy back over to my house and we can play around with the T5s. I just bought a used system that has 2 36" and 2 24". You would be able to tell what exactly you can fit under that hood. let me know..

 

[pcurry18]

When is a good time for you?

 

[chem-e]

As dots said, there are a lot of ways to do things. I'm one of those that plan to stick with what I have - T5s, 2-part supplementation, and shallow sand bed.

Check out some of these corner bows. I tried to find some threads to show various setups.

Like anything in reefing, there's more than one way to do things.

first

second

third

 

[pcurry18]

Ok, what im goin with is the 36" 4X39W retro T5s in the front of the tank and the 24" 4X24W in the back of the tank. I will cut the 1/2 inch plywood out and replace the plastic cover. My only concern is the surrounding plastic canopy that the plywood will sit on. Will it be effected by the heat or will the heat with proper fans be that intense? Any info would be greatly appreciated.

 

[chem-e]

I don't think that you'll have a problem. I had the plastic Oceanic canopy which I used retros in (2 T5s for daylight and 2 VHOs for actinics) for about half a year to a year before going with a fixture. The problem I had was that I didn't use a thick enough wood, so it sagged a little and I didn't think it was safe. If you plan to make the lid the same dimensions as the current lid to sit on the lip of the canopy, I'd just be careful about the weight because the plastic didn't look that sturdy to me. But other than this, the T5s should work well for you because you'll be able to maximize the lighting area.

 

[Justin74]

Great advice guys. I think your on the right track pcurry, and cheme knows that hood better than I do so he's your man in the physical setup department. I kinda skimmed through the thread but really appreciated your mathmatical to layman explanation of point source. I think the only thing I got hung up was when you mentioned the life of the two different bulbs. How I understood MH lives to be in terms of sufficient PAR levels before coloration shifts occured was between 6-9 months, with DE's I think that was stretched to 9-12 mo.? With T5's the usefull range is between 12-18 mo, but pretty much even out due to the quantity that will need replacing.

As far as PAR values at a 24" depth T5(fitted w/IC reflectors) v 250 SE(PFO reflector), what you were told and thought was right norcall99, and quite significantly at that. But then again, were not talking about 250w+DE's in an L3 either, so it's all relevant.

Rest assured though pcurry, with some IC reflectors on an IC ballast your clam will feel warm and fuzzy at the bottom of the tank. Though Im not sure an Ice Cap ballast would really even be needed, but you definately wont be wondering if you need more if you get it Btw, Ive been growing sps just fine and colorfull on the bottom of my tank on the sand and there about 20 inches from the light.



-Justin

 

[rockwyld]

Justin- Is the Ice Cap 660 ballast better than what is being offered with all the "retro T5" setups. The other ballasts appear to be longer and skinnier (dont remember the manufactur). I just bought a used T5 setup with 4 bulbs and an IceCap ballast and the seller said it would "overdrive"the bulbs. What does it mean to "overdrive"? thanks

 

[dots]

As with most in this hobby, lighting is still being figured out what works, what doesn't and why.....there are a lot of debates esp. on the SPS forum about which is the best bulb, reflector, SE vs DE vs T5 and what not. Unfortunatly, Qualitative vs Quantitative perferences get in the way and someone may have a preference on on a type of lighting based on most likely their individual experiences while using that type and think that had something to do with it.

Eventually I think in the near future someone will be able to say I have this and this tank, I want to keep xyz, what kind of lighting do I need and it will be pretty straight forward........

I think when it gets really confusing and hard to realize between fact and opinion when people start to push the envelope and maximize it to the nth degree or push the application.........like using PCs for growing SPS for example.

But I think it comes down to the few differences between MH and T5 that allow someone to make the choice best suited for them.

I have to agree with you Justin..........I like the "just the facts" attitude on this one to allow the person to make thier own desicion rather than herd them into something.......I dont think he could really go wrong with either......either one wouldn't limit the growth potential of anything he would like to keep.......As far as the life span of SE vs DE......I don't know, most get tired of the K long before the bulb burns out and I think switch the DEs around due to the availability out there, but even then to really measure that loss in PAR and when it has a negative effect can only be measured on tanks where that is the only variably, and I think that is few and far between.........I am even thinking of going a tad bluer as we speak, but am having some great coloration and growth now that I have been feeding more......who knows.

 

[dots]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1013083