lighting vs cyano

[reefkeeper2]

Won't erythromycin play havoc with all the benificial bacteria you need to cycle your ammonia and nitrites? Doesn't seem like a good idea to get rid of the cyano and kill off your sand bed in the process. I have seen every remedy you can think of posted here and am still of the opionion that they are all coincidental (except the antibiotics) in getting rid of the stuff. As I said, I also use phosban , my PO4 and nitrate levels are non detectable and I keep a rigorous water changing schedule. I blast the rocks and remove what I can with the trusty turkey baster as well. It grows back. I cant inagine what its living on. I don't even get any micro algae growth on the acrylic surfaces because the PO4 levels are so low. There has to be another factor other than phosphates and nitrates that helps fuel the growth of cyano.

 

[3D-Reef]

A phosphate level above 0.012 ppm can cause cyno to grow.
Search for Plantbrains cyno cure or go to the plant section and look in helpful old post.

 

[Ninong]

Re: lighting vs cyano

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7910549#post7910549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brad Black
is it possibble to create or wosten a cyano prob with lihjting that is out dated?

Yes, it most certainly is possible, even probable!

I use t-12 lighting and have recently developed a worsening problem.
I have not replced lighting in about 1-1 1/2 years. Whats the thinking on this?

I think you should replace your lamps.

Depending on exactly which species of cyanobacteria we're dealing with, the pigments will absorb certain wavelengths more efficiently than others. The most common pigments in cyanobacteria are phycoerythrins and their absorption level is optimized at 555-564 nm. That means that as your lamps age and shift towards the red end of the spectrum, they produce more light in the range favored by cyanobacteria.

There are other variables that affect cyanobacteria but this is in answer to your specific question about lighting.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7913617#post7913617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by humbugy
ive noticed in aquriums with bottoms covered with cyano that objects that cast a shade will have no cyano in the shade

That's because cyanobacteria is photosynthetic.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7916216#post7916216 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 3D-Reef
IMO,cyno can grow in about any lighting,new or old.If your fighting cyno,your phosphates are to high.Changing to new lights,with the increased amount of light,may make it grow faster.I use chemclean when an outbreak occurs.

Phosphate has nothing to do with it. Cyanobacteria feeds on nitrogen, carbon dioxide and dissolved organic compounds. It is nitrogen limited.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7926696#post7926696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by outy
reefkeeper2 you kind of hit the nail on the head, no one knows exactly the cause or cure but we do know this.

I disagree. We know exactly what it is and what causes it. We also know how to deal with it. Unfortunately there are a wide variety of factors that influence it and these can come in unexpected combinations.

I have never had cyanobacteria other than in my DSB where it belongs.

If you maintain your calcium around 450-475 ppm and your alkalinity between 10-12 dKH and replace your lamps before they shift too far to red and keep good water currents in your tank and maintain nitrate at reasonably low levels, you are not likely to have a problem with cyanobacteria.

BTW, it's the alkalinity part that is important but you will need to keep calcium reasonably high in order to keep the alkalinity and calcium in balance.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7942312#post7942312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by panic


Brad - Algae loves light...

True, but cyanobacteria is NOT algae. It hasn't been classified as blue-green algae in decades.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7969454#post7969454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by overgrownaquatics

I believe that phosphates are the key to it's growth,...

No, it's not phosphate, it's nitrogen.

Also, having a refugium with a good healthy culture of Chaeto will help with the uptake of nutrients that would otherwise fuel the cyano.

Yes, absolutely true.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7969471#post7969471 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redFishblue
Not sure of chemi clean, but Maracyn (erythromycin) will clear up the cyno overnight.
Of course, it not the best long term solution.

You're right, all erythromycin does is treat the symptom (cyanobacteria). It doesn't do anything about the underlying cause of the cyanobacteria. If other changes aren't made to deal with the underlying cause, it will be back.

Erythromycin prevents bacteria from growing by interfering with protein synthesis. It binds to the bacterial ribosome and thus inhibits the translation of peptides.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7970309#post7970309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by reefkeeper2
There has to be another factor other than phosphates and nitrates that helps fuel the growth of cyano.

Yes, there are other factors besides nitrogen, but phosphate isn't one of them.

Points to remember:

Cyanobacteria can be a natural part of the new-tank cycle. Most people do experience a certain amount of cyanobacteria during the first few weeks or months after setting up their tank. It's nothing to get all worked up about. It will usually go away on its own if good maintenance practices are followed.

Cyanobacteria are photosynthetic bacteria that are nitrogen limited. They are unique organisms in that they can perform both nitrogen fixation and oxygenic photosynthesis. Cyanobacteria is a VERY natural part of the environment -- terrestrial and aquatic -- and has been for billions of years. It will occupy any available space given the right environment and a lack of competition. It is quite common in new tanks and not something to be alarmed about.

Cyanobacteria is less common in fully-stocked, mature reef tanks but it can pop up suddenly for no apparent reason. A slight change in the equilibrium can make the tank more hospitable to the cyanobacteria. The slight change could come in the form of aging lamps that have shifted to the red, it could come in the form of sudden temperature changes, it could come in the form of a sudden increase in available dissolved organics, etc.

Wikipedia's article on cyanobacteria.

 

[reefworldaq]

Hai Ninong, beside of your opinian, i think the problem is we cannot curing/baking the live rock. my experiment after baking the LR , all the nitrogen in the LR was out and cannot release again in water column. But if the LR not full of organic/nitrogen and the cyano cannot grow, even with old light, high ammoniac and nitrate. what do you think. thank's

 

[DCoats]

cyano or coraline, how to tell the difference?
http://easyshellz.com/tank/better/
http://easyshellz.com/tank/better/whole-shebang.jpg

 

[hahnmeister]

Re: lighting vs cyano

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7910549#post7910549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Brad Black
is it possibble to create or wosten a cyano prob with lihjting that is out dated? I use t-12 lighting and have recently developed a worsening problem.
I have not replced lighting in about 1-1 1/2 years. Whats the thinking on this?

Um, well, to get back to your original question...

The answer is YES... despite what many are saying here about other things, there are many types of cyano (like the red film types), that feed on IR wavelengths. This makes it easy for them to live w/o competition in many areas in the wild that are too bright for other algaes. As old bulbs shift in spectrum, they usually end up making more IR light (esp 10,000K halides I found), and this contributes to many cyano problems. I have whiped out cyano outbreaks in my tanks by swapping out the old bulb for a new, bluer bulb... and within a week the cyano is gone... no more IR to feed on...

nutrients, phosphates, ammonia, etc... all things that should be kept in check anyways, but even w/o them, you can still have a cyano problem if your bulbs are giving off IR light. I wouldnt say that cyano is any more an indicator of what these values might be beyong other algaes.

 

[Dag]

Phosphate has nothing to do with it. Cyanobacteria feeds on nitrogen, carbon dioxide and dissolved organic compounds. It is nitrogen limited.

Lots of smart people have said phosphate is a factor. What's your basis for this statement?

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7987485#post7987485 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dag
Lots of smart people have said phosphate is a factor. What's your basis for this statement?

I probably should have said primarily nitrogen, carbon dioxide and DOC. Phosphate is a more significant nutrient in many freshwater species of cyanobacteria than it is in the marine species we typically encounter. The basis for my statement is an article by Dr. Julia Holden on cyanobacteria in reef aquaria that I read several years ago. If I can find it, I will link it. Right now I have to go to a doctor's appointment.

I believe the main misconception that leads to confusion is the repeated comment by many hobbyists that cyanobacteria are algae. They aren't. They're in the Kingdom Monera, Phylum Cyanobacteria. There are thousands of different species, hundreds of which are marine. It is dangerous to generalize because there is a wide diversity, even among marine species, when it comes to which pigments are present and therefore which parts of the spectrum are favored.

 

[Dag]

Given the delicate balance in our aquariums, I firmly believe that what causes cyano in one tank is not the same as another. Too many people have cured their cyano problems by running phospate remover to rule at phospate as a material contributing cause.

 

[Dag]

Given the delicate balance in our aquariums, I firmly believe that what causes cyano in one tank is not the same as another. Too many people have cured their cyano problems by running phospate remover to rule out phospate as a material contributing cause.

 

[hahnmeister]

Okay... nobody is going to read my post...lol.

 

[Ninong]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7988727#post7988727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
Okay... nobody is going to read my post...lol.

I read your post.

Um, well, to get back to your original question...

The answer is YES... despite what many are saying here about other things, there are many types of cyano (like the red film types), that feed on IR wavelengths. This makes it easy for them to live w/o competition in many areas in the wild that are too bright for other algaes. As old bulbs shift in spectrum, they usually end up making more IR light (esp 10,000K halides I found), and this contributes to many cyano problems. I have whiped out cyano outbreaks in my tanks by swapping out the old bulb for a new, bluer bulb... and within a week the cyano is gone... no more IR to feed on...

nutrients, phosphates, ammonia, etc... all things that should be kept in check anyways, but even w/o them, you can still have a cyano problem if your bulbs are giving off IR light. I wouldnt say that cyano is any more an indicator of what these values might be beyong other algaes.

First of all, as you imply in your post, there are a wide range of cyanobacteria and different species contain different pigments. The most common pigment in the cyanobacteria typically found in home aquaria is phycoerythrin. It has good absorbency between 500-600 nm with an absorption peak at 555-564 nm. The other two phycobillin pigments -- phycocyanin and allophycocyanin -- have their absorption peaks further into the red. Phycocyanin has good absorbency between 550-650 nm and allophycocyanin has good absorbency between 600-675 nm.

I don't know of any cyanobacteria pigments that have absorbency beyond 700 nm. Chlorophyll-a and the carotenoids peak in the blue and then chlorophyll-a has another peak in the red around 690 nm.

Marine cyanobacteria is more likely to have pigments that absorb at wavelengths available in a marine environment. Red light is quickly absorbed by the water column in a marine environment. That may be why phycoerythrin is more common than allophycocyanin in marine cyanobacteria.

Here is a chart of cyanobacteria pigments and their absorbency.

 

[hahnmeister]

Ill try to find the article/notes. I think it was in a book actually... Perhaps the spectrums being tested with what you saw didnt have a wide range PAR meter available... so it wasnt covered.