Lighting Wavelengths

[ReefEnabler]

I just read this one too:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2003/feature.htm

If I am reading it right, giving a coral ~650nm (red) light without also giving it the correct balanced amount of 685nm ("far red") light could result in an imbalance between PS I and PS II and a loss in pigmentation.

But somehow picking up the "far red" light helps the coral deal with red??

That wasn't the main focus of the article so it didn't go into it as much as I had hoped. I'd really love to have more information on that, hopefully there will be some more studies

Looking at some of Sanjays spectral graphs for my bulbs, the radium 20k and hamilton 14k both have roughly equal spikes at

670 and 690nm.

Aquaconnect 14k has a TINY spike at 660nm, and then a decent one at ~685.

An XM 10k bulb has more light everwhere it seams, but the "far red" is more intense than the "red".


I wonder if this is why some of my Montiporas have gotten slightly lighter after replacing XM10ks with Hamilton 14ks.

 

[liveforphysics]

I had used the KZ fiji-purple T5 bulbs for a year and loved the colors and performance. They do have a spike of red in their spectra.

But, that article does show a trend worth further testing.

I'm going to break a couple frags off the same coral that appear roughly the same, then weigh them, and mount them both somewhere with similar water flow. Then setup a high powered red LED on a spotlight irradiateing one and not the other and observe the results over time.

It's not a perfect test of course, but it could be interesting to see what happens.

-Luke

 

[ReefEnabler]

definitely.... is there any way you would be able to tell the relative concentration of 650nm and >685nm light in the bulb, or are you pretty much limited to what the manufactures "peak wavelength" information says?


I usually look at the spectral graphs on reefgeek when talking T5 spectrum (not sure if its reliable or not), but there no spectrum info for the KZ Fiji purple or the ATI Procolor unfortunately.

I wonder if theres a spectral analysis of those bulbs anywhere, since I'm curious to see exactly what kind of red and "far red" light is produced.

 

[snaza]

i'm about the replace my bulbs and now wandering if i will use another fiji or not?

 

[liveforphysics]

I'm going to be doing new photometricspectral graphs for all my HID bulbs after I reach 200 hours of break-in. I will make sure to get a capture of the spectra of the red LEDs I will use.

I think I have at least 10 of every damn T5HO bulb ever made. I will bring one of each with me and get some data for them as well, including the KZ fiji.

As far as a bulb goes, I loved the Fiji purples. I thought the color was great and the corals seemed to grow as fast as I could keep up with calcium, so I can't complain.

However, if red light does negatively effect coral somehow, I personally wouldn't want to give my corals anything that encourages bleaching.

 

[snaza]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14095443#post14095443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by liveforphysics
I'm going to be doing new photometricspectral graphs for all my HID bulbs after I reach 200 hours of break-in. I will make sure to get a capture of the spectra of the red LEDs I will use.

I think I have at least 10 of every damn T5HO bulb ever made. I will bring one of each with me and get some data for them as well, including the KZ fiji.

As far as a bulb goes, I loved the Fiji purples. I thought the color was great and the corals seemed to grow as fast as I could keep up with calcium, so I can't complain.

However, if red light does negatively effect coral somehow, I personally wouldn't want to give my corals anything that encourages bleaching.

thats would be great. i would love to see some spectral graphs of a fiji. Yes im with you, I love the color of my Fiji but I too dont want to coral to be unhappy :rollface:

 

[snaza]

Quoting GRIM REEFER here from his T5 Q&A thread

"The Pro Color lamp alone might be 60% red, as part of an array of lamps it isn't even close to providing the amount of isolated spectrum they are talking about. The deeper red spectrum also causes fluorescence in a few corals"

Same goes for Fiji i guess

 

[The Grim Reefer]

Gads, I was following this thread back when it was a wee babe and forgot about it. Good stuff.

Anyone know where I can score a used spectrometer?

The biggest difference I see running a lamp with some red in it is the color you see. Not sure if the red is causing any change to the pigmentation or not.

I was PAR testing some fixtures using all Aquablue lamps. I have a Pink Birds Nest in my tank which look gray under the aquablues. When it came time to test my 7 lamp fixture I left a UVL 75/25 lamp in for the 7th lamp. It is 75% actinic/25% daylight but has a decent amount of red in it. When that lamp comes on it brings out the pink in the Birds Nest so it doesn't take a whole lot of red to bring out the color.

My regular mix of lamps is 4 Blue Plus, 1 75/25, 1 pro color and 1 GE 6500K Daylight. I am getting really good growth under those lamps and really good color. One branch of an Acro is directly under the Pro Color lamp a few inches below the surface. I can't really say I am seeing any difference in the growth rate compared to any of the other parts of the coral.

 

[snaza]

thanks grim. always good to hear your view on lighting

 

[The Grim Reefer]

I really didn't want to clutter the thread with equipment talk. I like to read up on the theory side of things when I can escape the Q&A thread.

 

[ReefEnabler]

would you guys say that a coral could also bleach from a loss of light intensity (say a 50% decrease), or would it be more likely to turn more brown in that situation??

obviously if the light is no longer strong enough to sustain the coral it would bleach and die eventually. But I am talking about a sudden decrease of light intensity that is within the range of what the coral could adapt to.

 

[Zimster]

I have seen this happen with a few tanks i have given frags to. They went from my T5 lighting to PC lighting (not enough bulbs for the tank size) and the frags seem to brown out but it takes a week or two for them to lose their color. They never seemed to bleach thus far.

 

[MCsaxmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14099095#post14099095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefEnabler
would you guys say that a coral could also bleach from a loss of light intensity (say a 50% decrease), or would it be more likely to turn more brown in that situation??

obviously if the light is no longer strong enough to sustain the coral it would bleach and die eventually. But I am talking about a sudden decrease of light intensity that is within the range of what the coral could adapt to.

No, a decrease in light intensity within the range that the zooxanthellae can adapt to (in other words, not putting them in the dark permanently) cannot cause bleaching. You'd almost certainly see an increase in pigment density in the zoox. though.

Also, let's not get too excited here guys. Dana's article is along the lines of thinking aloud, and asking questions. There aren't sufficient data to draw unambiuous conclusions here. There is something worth asking questions about, and testing, but we don't have robust answers yet

 

[ReefEnabler]

thanks.

guess you're right, its a good idea to keep some healthy skeptisicm and take early research with a big grain of salt....

hard not to get excited about the subject... which I guess signifies what a huge nerd I am

my wife loves the reef tank but she laughs at me when she always sees how much time I spend reading and writing in threads like this.

 

[The Grim Reefer]

OK, I did notice something with my tank.

I had been running all Aquablue T5's for a little over two weeks. All in all they were giving a 20% or so more PAR than my usual lighting.

There may be other subtle changes I hadn't noticed but I have a so-called pink Pacillapora (SP?) that has always looked mauve or whatever in my tank. With my usual lighting back in place that coral is now absolutely Brown. Not more brown or brownish, a lovely turd brown.

I will see how long to see the color shift back (hopefully). I can't really say if the red or blue is responsible for the color. All I know is this just re enforces my dislike for Aquablue lamps

 

[wet reefer]

What a great thread!

I think I understand points on both sides (spectrum vs PUR) and both make sense, but I have seen some conflicting results in my own tanks.

Set up a 55 frag tank with a 4 bulb TEK. I started with
aquablue-8hrs
blueplus-12hrs
GE daylight-12hrs
actinic-8hrs
Frags are about 2/3 down.
I seemed to have decent growth but colors were dull.

I replaced the daylight with an aquablue about 6 weeks ago and colors are coming back and growth slightly better. This would tell me spectrum does have an impact on growth and color of the coral itself, not just what they look like under a given bulb. But...

I also have a another 55 display tank, mostly sps, running off the same sump. Because I already had the fixture and lamps I went with the old stand by-4-VHO (2 actinics, 1 aquasun and 1 actinic white)

This tank was recently set up using frags from the above mentioned frag tank. In this tank the colors are noticeably more intense and growth is even better than the frag tank. Circulation is about the same in each and both have 12 hour photo periods.

So now I'm confused. In the frag tank where I removed the higher end of the spectrum the growth and color increased. In the VHO tank with an Aquasun in it is doing even better. The daylight is heavy in green and yellow but so is the Aquasun. The VHO tank seem "brighter" so that may have something to do with it.

Instinct tells me to go with what nature provides but I'm seeing two different results. From what I have experienced it seems is OK to go with a broad spectrum as long as you have plenty of blue. I think using a daylight with only 4-T5 lamps it was over powering the other lamps and affecting the corals.

I not stating any of this as fact, just what I have seen in my own tanks.

 

[snaza]

Thanks for posting wet reefer. Im seeing similar things with my sps frag tank. I had the same combo almost.

blue+
aquablue
blue+
daylight

I replaced the day light with another aqua blue and i swear colours are better.

I am planing on setting up a big frag tank and though that a mix of daylight and blue+ would be good, but now i dont know. im like you, i presumed daylight would provide the most natural light therefor giving the best colours and growth. doesnt seem to be that way though. Would love to head some other thoughs

cheers

 

[snaza]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14102586#post14102586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by The Grim Reefer
OK, I did notice something with my tank.

I had been running all Aquablue T5's for a little over two weeks. All in all they were giving a 20% or so more PAR than my usual lighting.

There may be other subtle changes I hadn't noticed but I have a so-called pink Pacillapora (SP?) that has always looked mauve or whatever in my tank. With my usual lighting back in place that coral is now absolutely Brown. Not more brown or brownish, a lovely turd brown.

I will see how long to see the color shift back (hopefully). I can't really say if the red or blue is responsible for the color. All I know is this just re enforces my dislike for Aquablue lamps

How did your lovely turd brown poci turn out

 

[ReefEnabler]

This is very anecdotal, and the scientific controls for this observation are non existant, but I'm interested in your responses.

Check out this Green Montipora Foliosa. This is after about 3-4 months in my tank, and it had already shown significant growth:

(also notice how red the monti cap in the background is).

This was under 2 x 250w XM10k's, and a single Radium 20k in the center of the tank (the green monti is in between).

About 2 months ago, I changed the XM10k's to Hamilton 14k's, and also added 2 x 80w T5 ATI Blue Plus. The addition of the T5s basically offset the loss in PAR. THe Red and green monti both get around ~275 PAR.

After about 2 months of the lighting change, here they are now:

Notice how both corals show significant growth, but the colors have gotten much more pastel. I miss the dark green color!

Of course I am not discounting that something else might be the culprit.... ultra low nutrients? I feed pretty heavily but my nitrates and phosphates have always been undetectable.

Anybody experience something similar?

 

[The Grim Reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14140553#post14140553 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by snaza
How did your lovely turd brown poci turn out

Haven't noticed a change yet.