Lighting Website Updates
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E-A-G-L-E-S
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So what would that mean if i did want to run them with my m59's?(Ushio 14K SE)
BreadmanMike
New member
I thought German bulbs had a hard time firing on probe start ballasts, especially as they got older???
Also,
Anyone have any experience with 150w DE 20k Iwasaki's? They are for my LPS tank. I currently run Phoenix, but wouldn't mind a nice new look with decent par.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Aquaticman74 is right... the bulbs may not start. For 250s this might be more true though... DE bulbs will not fire on M58 ballasts (but probe starts will start on pulse start/HQI ballasts). The probe start ballast doesnt surge in the beginning to get the bulb going... its waiting for the 'probe' or starting port within the bulb to start the halide. If there is no probe... the bulb wont fire.
But Ill admit, there is a problem with 400 watters. See, 150 and 250watt HQI ballasts are true HQI, but 400s are really 430 watt HPS/MV/EYE ballasts in the US (forget which one, but you get the point). If you look at the startup/peak specs for 250 wattHQI, its 5.5 amps, and a probe start 250 is 2.5 amps... quite a gap... so DE bulbs wont start on M58 ballasts. But a 400wattHQI is only 4.55 amps... less than a 250! And the regular 400watt ballasts are 4 amps.... not even a huge gap. So the M59 test on HQI 400 bulbs might not work, as some 400wattHQI bulbs might fire on a M59 ballast... even though they wont be running to spec.
But Ill admit, there is a problem with 400 watters. See, 150 and 250watt HQI ballasts are true HQI, but 400s are really 430 watt HPS/MV/EYE ballasts in the US (forget which one, but you get the point). If you look at the startup/peak specs for 250 wattHQI, its 5.5 amps, and a probe start 250 is 2.5 amps... quite a gap... so DE bulbs wont start on M58 ballasts. But a 400wattHQI is only 4.55 amps... less than a 250! And the regular 400watt ballasts are 4 amps.... not even a huge gap. So the M59 test on HQI 400 bulbs might not work, as some 400wattHQI bulbs might fire on a M59 ballast... even though they wont be running to spec.
E-A-G-L-E-S
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So, a definite no go on a m59 for a 400W "SE" Ushio 14K? IYO
TropTrea
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Looking at the bulb specs though I realy wonder why someone would want to use 400 watt MH. They use up about 60% more power than a 250 Watt yet there Par difference is closer to 20% more. In most cases using 3 250 Watt units will give you considerably more PAR light and cost you less in electricity.
The only time I can see not getting around this might be if some custom tank is say 36" Tall, 36" Wide and 18" deep (100 gallons) where you need the dept penetration but you do nopt have room for 3 lights.
Dennis
The only time I can see not getting around this might be if some custom tank is say 36" Tall, 36" Wide and 18" deep (100 gallons) where you need the dept penetration but you do nopt have room for 3 lights.
Dennis
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
Or a 36" long 58g, can't fit 3 halides over it, so i'm using 2 halides....
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Dennis, keep in mind that your typical 250wattDE/HQI combo uses 300-350 watts. My pheonix usees 320. And a typical 400wattSE uses about 440 watts, and a HQI uses about 500. The 'true' wattage ratings do a better job of showing why 400s are still worth it. A aquaconnect 400wattSE, which is a HQI rated bulb, has a PAR of 170 for 500watts. A 250wattDE version has a PAR of 82 and uses about 320 watts. Thats around a 40% increase in power for a little more than double the PAR. Care to rephrase that idea that 400s arent worth it?
OF course, the Aquaconnect is a HQI bulb, so its more efficient than the average 400wattSE probe start bulb, esp when you consider how much faster the probe start bulb will degrade.
TropTrea
New member
Jon
Lots look at another popular combination. The XM 10,000K SE bulbs that come in both 250W and 400W versions, with a standard ballast.
The 250 Watt version is rated by Sanjay at 137 and consumes 315 Watts. That is 2.29 Watts per PPFD.
The 400 Watt version is rated by Sanjay at 172 and consumes 438 Watts. That is 2.54 Watts per PPFD.
Yes you found an exception to the rule with the aquaconnect bulb, but for a 250W Double ended bulb it is definatly not in top list for effeciency.
Dennis
Lots look at another popular combination. The XM 10,000K SE bulbs that come in both 250W and 400W versions, with a standard ballast.
The 250 Watt version is rated by Sanjay at 137 and consumes 315 Watts. That is 2.29 Watts per PPFD.
The 400 Watt version is rated by Sanjay at 172 and consumes 438 Watts. That is 2.54 Watts per PPFD.
Yes you found an exception to the rule with the aquaconnect bulb, but for a 250W Double ended bulb it is definatly not in top list for effeciency.
Dennis
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
Yes, but keep in mind that you are comparing a 250wattDE bulb, with a 400wattSE/probe start bulb. I was comparing two HQI rated bulbs.
400watt HQIs include the Aquaconnect 14,000K, the Aqualine 10,000K, and the Ushio/BLV nepturion 10,000K, 14,000K, and 20,000K (non-CWA). These 400s stack up a little differently.
400watt HQIs include the Aquaconnect 14,000K, the Aqualine 10,000K, and the Ushio/BLV nepturion 10,000K, 14,000K, and 20,000K (non-CWA). These 400s stack up a little differently.
PITSTOP
New member
Just picked up my 2 x 400 PFO HQI ballasts, 2 x 24" PFO Parallel Reflectors w/Moguls, 2 x 400w SE Ushio 14,000K's!!!
Will have to wait until Tuesday to install and get my first look at the upgrade...these reflectors are awesome (Sanjay's tests prove these reflectors are awesome for my 120)
Will have to wait until Tuesday to install and get my first look at the upgrade...these reflectors are awesome (Sanjay's tests prove these reflectors are awesome for my 120)
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
Also....the cost of 1-2 amp more of total elec. is 'nothing' compared to the cost of choice sps, equipment, etc.
And I personally like a 'really' bright tank visually, that's why I like 14k-20k less, they are too dim for me no matter how much wattage.
E-A-G-L-E-S
New member
pitstop...any spare m137's to test those Ushio 14k's? If not, pm me.
Robert Patterso
New member
Anybody ever had a new bulb not light? I bought a 400w Reeflux 10k, installed it on a Cool Touch standard ballast, would barely show a flicker in the inner tube. Don't recall what it's called. So I put it on a new PFO hqi ballast. Just sends a blue arc across the tube but still won't light. Both ballast light the xm bulb no problems. It's about 10 months old.
Retailer said they've never had one not light. Says they're not made for hqi ballast and won't last longer than a month, two at most.
I chose the reeflux because Sanjay's specs. show it to have the same ppfd as the AC 14k. Being that there's not a AC 14 bulb to be found (sure wanted on to) I went with the reeflux.
Retailer said they've never had one not light. Says they're not made for hqi ballast and won't last longer than a month, two at most.
I chose the reeflux because Sanjay's specs. show it to have the same ppfd as the AC 14k. Being that there's not a AC 14 bulb to be found (sure wanted on to) I went with the reeflux.
hahnmeister
In Memoriam
PITSTOP
New member
Notes: MH’s with only 5 hours burn time.
New lights installed over my 120
2 x PFO 400w HQI Ballast
2 x 24†PFO Parallel Reflector
2 x Ushio 14K 400w SE
1 x IceCap 430 Ballast
2 x VHO 110w URi Super Actinic
FTS - 4K’s only
FTS -14K’s and VHO Actinics
New lights installed over my 120
2 x PFO 400w HQI Ballast
2 x 24†PFO Parallel Reflector
2 x Ushio 14K 400w SE
1 x IceCap 430 Ballast
2 x VHO 110w URi Super Actinic
FTS - 4K’s only
FTS -14K’s and VHO Actinics
PITSTOP
New member
It's like an icy-blue day - the heat coming down off the MH's is impressive - my chiller is getting a nice work out (Arctica 1/5 HP), but holding steady at 78-79F
Personally, I absolutely love the coloration and intensity.
Approx. how long until "burn-in?"
What happens when they do burn-in - more intense? more blue? ?
Personally, I absolutely love the coloration and intensity.
Approx. how long until "burn-in?"
What happens when they do burn-in - more intense? more blue? ?
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