salth20newbie
New member
Anyone know of any good places to purchase LR near the Auburn/Opelika area?
Live Rock
- Thread starter salth20newbie
- Start date
Good Live Rock ?
Good Live Rock ?
I have never seen good live rock in a LFS, for 13 yrs. I have looked in many from Hou. to Dal. and others while travling.
I have seen thousands of lbs. of LFS live rock and what most LFS call live rock is Live Rock that in most cases has set for weeks in warehouses waiting to be sold with no water unless their roof leaks!
Then they put in in what they call curing tank with no lights, for long periods of time.When it gets ready to be sold they put in a display with lights and cor. alge begin to grow, good bacteria grows inside the por.of the rock and they call it live rock.
I have had so called live rock for about 13 yrs. and they will tell you that almost everything that was on it in the ocean will come back in time.
NOT TRUE unless you place it back in the ocean near a reef for a few years.
You will have some plant life come back, cor.alge if you have good water,and lighting. If you look good at the bottom rocks, they are figi, tonga and walt smith that I have had for years that I used for base rocks and tryed to cover it with TBS (Tampa Bay Saltwater) LIVE ROCK.If I had got the good stuff to begin with I could had enjoyed it all these years, my bad!
First go to tbsaltwater.com and look at their sight. His is real LIVE ROCK !!
He ships it to you in water so when you get it your clams, barnicles, sponges, tunicates,feather duster worms, and ect. are all or most alive.
Then compare it to any local fish store!!
It will cost you to have it flew to your closest major air port but it is worth it!
If you figure the expence of the many water changes you will have to do with LFS rock, It is not saving you any thing.
Read the web sight, and here is a few pictures of what he sent melast friday.
He don't know me so this is really the quallity LIVE ROCK he sends.
You will have lots of hitchickers in the rock, some you will want to get rid of but a lot of them are really cool.He has pic. of some you can expect.You can watch for hours at the same rock and see something else that you didn't know was on or in it
I am sorry I have went on and on about the live rock thing but people need to know the truth about what they are getting!
I would sugest getting a package with critters and all, plus he always send you several supprises with it. Even if you have to start with a smaller package it is worth it I promise.
If you want a few more close up pics. of the rocks and critters I got last week I would be glad to send them to you!
Good Live Rock ?
I have never seen good live rock in a LFS, for 13 yrs. I have looked in many from Hou. to Dal. and others while travling.
I have seen thousands of lbs. of LFS live rock and what most LFS call live rock is Live Rock that in most cases has set for weeks in warehouses waiting to be sold with no water unless their roof leaks!
Then they put in in what they call curing tank with no lights, for long periods of time.When it gets ready to be sold they put in a display with lights and cor. alge begin to grow, good bacteria grows inside the por.of the rock and they call it live rock.
I have had so called live rock for about 13 yrs. and they will tell you that almost everything that was on it in the ocean will come back in time.
NOT TRUE unless you place it back in the ocean near a reef for a few years.
You will have some plant life come back, cor.alge if you have good water,and lighting. If you look good at the bottom rocks, they are figi, tonga and walt smith that I have had for years that I used for base rocks and tryed to cover it with TBS (Tampa Bay Saltwater) LIVE ROCK.If I had got the good stuff to begin with I could had enjoyed it all these years, my bad!
First go to tbsaltwater.com and look at their sight. His is real LIVE ROCK !!
He ships it to you in water so when you get it your clams, barnicles, sponges, tunicates,feather duster worms, and ect. are all or most alive.
Then compare it to any local fish store!!
It will cost you to have it flew to your closest major air port but it is worth it!
If you figure the expence of the many water changes you will have to do with LFS rock, It is not saving you any thing.
Read the web sight, and here is a few pictures of what he sent melast friday.
He don't know me so this is really the quallity LIVE ROCK he sends.
You will have lots of hitchickers in the rock, some you will want to get rid of but a lot of them are really cool.He has pic. of some you can expect.You can watch for hours at the same rock and see something else that you didn't know was on or in it
I am sorry I have went on and on about the live rock thing but people need to know the truth about what they are getting!
I would sugest getting a package with critters and all, plus he always send you several supprises with it. Even if you have to start with a smaller package it is worth it I promise.
If you want a few more close up pics. of the rocks and critters I got last week I would be glad to send them to you!
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more info
more info
I forgot to tell you that on my 90 gal. tank I put 50 lbs. of the TBS LIVE ROCK in my tank to cover the base I already had, and put the 90 gal. package of critters in fri 13th also and today is day 6 with still no ammonia in this tank because, the LIVE ROCK was taken out of the ocean, put in water on his boat, and shiped to me by air in bags of water, 4 hr trip from TBS to DAL TX. and I took it out and out in the kiddy tub to check it out in salt water then straight in my tank, not out of water for over a few seconds means very little die off of the critters which means low amounts of ammonia if any which also saves you a pocket full of money you don't have to spend on sea salt and ro/di water for as many water changes unless it gets to over 1 ppm ammonia then do just enough to get it back down below 1 PPM ammonia. That is it.
Now my 35 Gal tank didn't have any thing in it except mixed salt water, monday it went up to .25 PPM ammonia but i am not gonna touch it un less it gets over 1 PPM which it went back to 0 tue. and now the walls of the tank are getting green alge on them, so if all keeps up this way I will be ready for part 2 of my 35 Gal. package in another week :bounce1:
more info
I forgot to tell you that on my 90 gal. tank I put 50 lbs. of the TBS LIVE ROCK in my tank to cover the base I already had, and put the 90 gal. package of critters in fri 13th also and today is day 6 with still no ammonia in this tank because, the LIVE ROCK was taken out of the ocean, put in water on his boat, and shiped to me by air in bags of water, 4 hr trip from TBS to DAL TX. and I took it out and out in the kiddy tub to check it out in salt water then straight in my tank, not out of water for over a few seconds means very little die off of the critters which means low amounts of ammonia if any which also saves you a pocket full of money you don't have to spend on sea salt and ro/di water for as many water changes unless it gets to over 1 ppm ammonia then do just enough to get it back down below 1 PPM ammonia. That is it.
Now my 35 Gal tank didn't have any thing in it except mixed salt water, monday it went up to .25 PPM ammonia but i am not gonna touch it un less it gets over 1 PPM which it went back to 0 tue. and now the walls of the tank are getting green alge on them, so if all keeps up this way I will be ready for part 2 of my 35 Gal. package in another week :bounce1:
kennedy450r
Member
Most of the clams, barnicles, sponges, tunicates,feather duster worms, and ect that come on the liverock from florida are very dull in appearance. Nothing you would want in a reef tank. I ordered some rock before from florida(not tbs), I wasnt very pleased
Tomoko Schum
New member
Live rocks from Tampa Bay Saltwater are really wonderful. They have tons of good hitchhikers although some bad ones, such as mantis shrimp, also come with them. You pay for the extra weight of water, but I really like their rocks. 8ball's rocks from them were really great when he first got them a number of years ago. I used to drool over them. Especially those very pretty porcelain crabs. I only had a few beautiful Florida live rocks myself when some LFS's got some in long time ago.
However, some of these great critters such as barnacles, clams and unusual tunicates, will eventually disappear unless you feed a lot of phytoplanktons and tiny zooplanktons to them. If you don't intend to do so, live rocks from a good LFS may be just as good IMHO.
salth20newbie -
I hope you find a good LFS near you. Good luck. You might try some shops in Montgomery. I hear that they have a good LFS or two.
However, some of these great critters such as barnacles, clams and unusual tunicates, will eventually disappear unless you feed a lot of phytoplanktons and tiny zooplanktons to them. If you don't intend to do so, live rocks from a good LFS may be just as good IMHO.
salth20newbie -
I hope you find a good LFS near you. Good luck. You might try some shops in Montgomery. I hear that they have a good LFS or two.
I was giving an example of a few things on the rock I recieved, there is much more and i offered to show pictures of specific rocks if the person wanted.
The rock was shipped completely under water in 5 layers of thick plastic bags, placed in boxes with cooler type foam inside, very well done and with no leaks out of the boxes!
I got 85 lbs. of LIVE ROCK 35 Lbs. of LIVE SAND and 4 cucumbers, 1 pepermint shrimp, 40 Blue leg hermits, 35 snails, 2 serp. stars, and he through in a few extras ,3 anem. , 1 Gorgonian, Some red alge plant looking stuff, I can't rember what else right now
I had already recieved a few of the critters that made the rest of the package.
The packages totaled with water 245 lb. Six Full Boxes of stuff about 24x24 x12
The shipping cost $165.00 from FL. to DAL. TX. it took a total of about 4 hrs from time it left FL. till I picked it up. Not weeks floating on large ships in containers like the others.
When I got my first LFS rocks, it took about 600 gallons of water changes till I got the rock cured, now that would cost over $100.00 just in salt and at 37 cents a gallon for ro water which is the cheapest I have found times 600 gals. thats another $222.00 Now As I said up to this point I still hann't had to do any for said reasons, so what is cheaper
$322.00 + just for curing plus elect. cost and weeks of lost time of watching your tank or $165.00 for wasteing all that money probly half that for the water? I don't know. Can you explain to me how any one would really be cheaper with the LFS type rock, besides it is almost always white rock with no color at all, ok may a total of 1 inch on the whole rock, I will give you that much. Oh yeh and some live backteria too
The person don't half to buy from TBS if they don't want to, I just had a good exp. with dealing with them, that is all, no hidden reasons or anything like that.
No, it doesn't half to have those exact things on them.
However in my opp. it needs more then bacteria to be live rock!!
Also, I said most LFS!! don't have what I call good LIVE ROCK, I didn't say none, just none I have everrrrrrr seen in 13 yrs. in the hobby.
Also I told the person to compare both (That way he or she will have what they are looking for) instead of buy the first they find and seeing better a few days later.
If someone had showed me the dif. 13 years ago I would have never bought plain dead locking and smelling rock from my LFS for from $5- $10 a lb. and still had to drive over a hour to get it.
I do agree that the pictures don't do the rock justice but that is the best I can do as far as taking pictures, sorry.
You should re read what I said a couple times, and try to think of what I said if you were buying your first live rock, I was trying to get them to look at both and choose what is best for him or her.
You know what, if you want to defend the live rock in MOST LFS, I would suggest to you to go and watch how the rock is handled, I would guess you work for or own one your self or you would admit that this is the normal treatment of figi,tonga, and walt smith.
As an example:
tue I was in a near city where a LFS was closing down, there " cured live rock " was loaded into the back of a pickup out in the sun. I did my shoping came by a few hrs later, there putting buckets of equipment on top of it old lamps, any thing they could get in there. I stoped and talked to the workers to see where it was going. OK I just happen to live 15 miles from the IMPORTER that owned the live rock and fish that had not been payed for so he got it back. So the next day I stoped by and talked to the owner of the EXPORT buisness and I told him I was thinking about starting a buisness of my own, selling a few corals online, with pictures of what you see is what you get!! The exact piece! So he told me how he and other importers and brokers get together and buy several containers loads from over seas.
Then when it gets here they split it up and ware house it till it is ordered from LFS!!!!!
Right out of the birds mouth. He said it is done this way to get the cost down because the shipping is so high. We were standing in his ware house no insulation or cooling in the building, other then holes in the tin above our heads. He did have pumps in the water, no lights, no chillers either and it was 103 deg. out side and felt hotter inside with no air flow. Guess where he said the rock was headed, yep to LFS in hou, dal, and ect.
WOW I hope you don't look up my lic. plate and come beat me up for saying what I think !!
The rock was shipped completely under water in 5 layers of thick plastic bags, placed in boxes with cooler type foam inside, very well done and with no leaks out of the boxes!
I got 85 lbs. of LIVE ROCK 35 Lbs. of LIVE SAND and 4 cucumbers, 1 pepermint shrimp, 40 Blue leg hermits, 35 snails, 2 serp. stars, and he through in a few extras ,3 anem. , 1 Gorgonian, Some red alge plant looking stuff, I can't rember what else right now
I had already recieved a few of the critters that made the rest of the package.
The packages totaled with water 245 lb. Six Full Boxes of stuff about 24x24 x12
The shipping cost $165.00 from FL. to DAL. TX. it took a total of about 4 hrs from time it left FL. till I picked it up. Not weeks floating on large ships in containers like the others.
When I got my first LFS rocks, it took about 600 gallons of water changes till I got the rock cured, now that would cost over $100.00 just in salt and at 37 cents a gallon for ro water which is the cheapest I have found times 600 gals. thats another $222.00 Now As I said up to this point I still hann't had to do any for said reasons, so what is cheaper
$322.00 + just for curing plus elect. cost and weeks of lost time of watching your tank or $165.00 for wasteing all that money probly half that for the water? I don't know. Can you explain to me how any one would really be cheaper with the LFS type rock, besides it is almost always white rock with no color at all, ok may a total of 1 inch on the whole rock, I will give you that much. Oh yeh and some live backteria too
The person don't half to buy from TBS if they don't want to, I just had a good exp. with dealing with them, that is all, no hidden reasons or anything like that.
No, it doesn't half to have those exact things on them.
However in my opp. it needs more then bacteria to be live rock!!
Also, I said most LFS!! don't have what I call good LIVE ROCK, I didn't say none, just none I have everrrrrrr seen in 13 yrs. in the hobby.
Also I told the person to compare both (That way he or she will have what they are looking for) instead of buy the first they find and seeing better a few days later.
If someone had showed me the dif. 13 years ago I would have never bought plain dead locking and smelling rock from my LFS for from $5- $10 a lb. and still had to drive over a hour to get it.
I do agree that the pictures don't do the rock justice but that is the best I can do as far as taking pictures, sorry.
You should re read what I said a couple times, and try to think of what I said if you were buying your first live rock, I was trying to get them to look at both and choose what is best for him or her.
You know what, if you want to defend the live rock in MOST LFS, I would suggest to you to go and watch how the rock is handled, I would guess you work for or own one your self or you would admit that this is the normal treatment of figi,tonga, and walt smith.
As an example:
tue I was in a near city where a LFS was closing down, there " cured live rock " was loaded into the back of a pickup out in the sun. I did my shoping came by a few hrs later, there putting buckets of equipment on top of it old lamps, any thing they could get in there. I stoped and talked to the workers to see where it was going. OK I just happen to live 15 miles from the IMPORTER that owned the live rock and fish that had not been payed for so he got it back. So the next day I stoped by and talked to the owner of the EXPORT buisness and I told him I was thinking about starting a buisness of my own, selling a few corals online, with pictures of what you see is what you get!! The exact piece! So he told me how he and other importers and brokers get together and buy several containers loads from over seas.
Then when it gets here they split it up and ware house it till it is ordered from LFS!!!!!
Right out of the birds mouth. He said it is done this way to get the cost down because the shipping is so high. We were standing in his ware house no insulation or cooling in the building, other then holes in the tin above our heads. He did have pumps in the water, no lights, no chillers either and it was 103 deg. out side and felt hotter inside with no air flow. Guess where he said the rock was headed, yep to LFS in hou, dal, and ect.
WOW I hope you don't look up my lic. plate and come beat me up for saying what I think !!
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salth20newbie
New member
I appreciate the advice from everyone. My LFS doesnt have good LR. The LR I have in my tank now has a lot of white harded deposits on it and looks really 'dumpy' after seeing pics on here from others tanks...getting a little discouraged and thinking about holding off on getting LR and fish until I can relocate after graduate school in May. Sorry to cause everyone to get so heated at one another!
Tomoko Schum
New member
Don't worry about the heated discussion. People have different experience and opinions. Although I have been reefing for awhile, I still learn a lot by listening to others and finding out how others do things.
Don't be discouraged about your live rocks. What you need is some live things on them. A number of people here have been keeping reef tanks for many years. Some of us cannot even see our rocks very well without moving some corals around.
The white hardened deposits might have been encrusted corals or coralline algae at one time. Your rocks will be covered up with coralline algae in a little while and will look fine. Some tanks look really great because of good aquascape that their owners created. Your tank may look better if you rearrange your rocks a little. Is your tank ready for some livestock?
Don't be discouraged about your live rocks. What you need is some live things on them. A number of people here have been keeping reef tanks for many years. Some of us cannot even see our rocks very well without moving some corals around.
The white hardened deposits might have been encrusted corals or coralline algae at one time. Your rocks will be covered up with coralline algae in a little while and will look fine. Some tanks look really great because of good aquascape that their owners created. Your tank may look better if you rearrange your rocks a little. Is your tank ready for some livestock?
jasontammy
New member
It seems that no matter the topic there are always people who flame out someone one way or the other.Just because it works for you or dont does not mean that it is wrong.Everyone has oppions,ideas and their own taste and style.As long as your rock,tank,corals ect. make you smile,relax and have fun carry on.
Jason
Jason
Flaming ?????
It looks to me as if craigshup is just speaking his opinion based on his expierience in the hobby.
wikipedia defines flamming as a hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users, it further says "Flaming is usually carried out by individuals known as flamers, who are specifically motivated to incite flaming. These users specialize in flaming and target specific aspects of a controversial conversation, and are usually less subtle than their counterparts. Known as trolls, these users are less professional and speak obvious and blunt remarks to incite a flame war"
Is craigsup strong and steadfast in his belief and opinions ? - yes !
Is he insulting or hostile towards anyone ? I dont see it in his posts.
It appears that your post meets the criteria for flaming (more specifically Trolling) a lot more than do his posts. perhaps it would be in the forums best interst to see what the new user can offer the boards before he is mislabled.
Welcome to the Boards, and Bama Craigshup, there is a local Reefclub with some good dedicated people in it, you should check it out and see what you can offer them, and they can offer you. Good luck.
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salth20newbie
New member
a view of the beginning to who knows what!
a view of the beginning to who knows what!
My tank has been going going about 8 weeks. My nitrates are high and I need to get a better test. The one I have is made by Red Sea and it is a color code one that just reads that my Nitrite is >1ppm. I bought a protein skimmer but it fits a bio cube and doesnt work on my tank so im back to the drawing board on that one. I have had hermits in my tank for over 3 weeks and the are doing great! LFS said it was cool to put fish in but with Nitrates so high I am scared to put fish in despite LFS advice. I have been doing weekly water changes (about 2-3 gallons each time); making sure that I wait at least 24 hrs before putting the new water in to let the salt dissolve and to match pH and SG of the tank to new water. I have learned so much on here but still have TONS to go. I may just hold off on a fish for now since I will be moving in May; well that and I still have no clue what I am doing. So far the worms I have living in my current LR and the hermits keep the tank interesting.
Here are a few pics of what I have going on!
a view of the beginning to who knows what!
My tank has been going going about 8 weeks. My nitrates are high and I need to get a better test. The one I have is made by Red Sea and it is a color code one that just reads that my Nitrite is >1ppm. I bought a protein skimmer but it fits a bio cube and doesnt work on my tank so im back to the drawing board on that one. I have had hermits in my tank for over 3 weeks and the are doing great! LFS said it was cool to put fish in but with Nitrates so high I am scared to put fish in despite LFS advice. I have been doing weekly water changes (about 2-3 gallons each time); making sure that I wait at least 24 hrs before putting the new water in to let the salt dissolve and to match pH and SG of the tank to new water. I have learned so much on here but still have TONS to go. I may just hold off on a fish for now since I will be moving in May; well that and I still have no clue what I am doing. So far the worms I have living in my current LR and the hermits keep the tank interesting.
Here are a few pics of what I have going on!
Attachments
Tomoko Schum
New member
If you would like to reduce nitrate fast, you can do big water changes for a few days in a row. It's not going to hurt your inhabitants or the biological filter.
It would be helpful to get a nitrate test kit that can measure low range (0 - 10 ppm) as well as medium range. However, if you can reduce the nitrate to the level that your current test kit read "0", the nitrate may well be below 10 ppm.
I'd go ahead and add a little more live rocks so you can create a pleasing aquascape. You don't need a lot of rocks. Get just enough to create an open structure with a cave or two. You can even add dry rocks, such as reef bones, at this stage if you have a budget constraint (and as long as you can put up with the white color of the dry rocks.)
How big is your tank? 20 - 29 gallon? If you are going to make this a reef tank with corals, I'd trade the big hermit crabs with another kind such as blue leg or scarlet leg ones.
It would be helpful to get a nitrate test kit that can measure low range (0 - 10 ppm) as well as medium range. However, if you can reduce the nitrate to the level that your current test kit read "0", the nitrate may well be below 10 ppm.
I'd go ahead and add a little more live rocks so you can create a pleasing aquascape. You don't need a lot of rocks. Get just enough to create an open structure with a cave or two. You can even add dry rocks, such as reef bones, at this stage if you have a budget constraint (and as long as you can put up with the white color of the dry rocks.)
How big is your tank? 20 - 29 gallon? If you are going to make this a reef tank with corals, I'd trade the big hermit crabs with another kind such as blue leg or scarlet leg ones.
shirley386
Member
Those hermits look like the one I used to collect on the coast at Orange Beach. They will strip the live rock of everything (good and bad). I'd get them out and get some blue or red legs.
wpecoul
New member
+1
You can work this from both ends - if you happen to see a live rock you like in a LFS, you can get it and it will help seed the rock you have with possibly new strains of bacteria and other life. Or, as stated, you can get dry rock from one of the many sources out there and the rock you already have will seed the dry rock.
Also, I agree with Tomoko in that many of the sessile inverts that arrive on really 'fresh' live rock just won't make it in our systems unless we happen to feed the tank enough (and the right kinds) of phytoplankton, etc.
Oh, yeah - those hermits are definitely not reef-safe. I would get rid of them via trade before you add much else in the way of inverts, small fish, etc.
You can work this from both ends - if you happen to see a live rock you like in a LFS, you can get it and it will help seed the rock you have with possibly new strains of bacteria and other life. Or, as stated, you can get dry rock from one of the many sources out there and the rock you already have will seed the dry rock.
Also, I agree with Tomoko in that many of the sessile inverts that arrive on really 'fresh' live rock just won't make it in our systems unless we happen to feed the tank enough (and the right kinds) of phytoplankton, etc.
Oh, yeah - those hermits are definitely not reef-safe. I would get rid of them via trade before you add much else in the way of inverts, small fish, etc.
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Thanks Rensmif, well stated.
I guess I am going to half to learn to just answer questions as asked, I guess I go in to too much detail giving my answers.
But too me there is never just one answer on that subject!
I just thought if i could help even 1 noobie to the saltwater aqu.world I would have done my part.
I see so many people so excited to get there first tank setup from there LFS and are mis guided from the moment they walk in the door.
Some of the sales people working in some LFS are such a sales person you can almost imagine them walking in with a big cigar and a tiger in hand Any one reading this knows what i am talking about (they would sell you there mothers own shirt off her back and make it sound good!
I would like to see a post with a true and complete side by side comparison of the different options of Real Live Rock & Live Sand and the normal live rock and sand from most LFS for noobies to see both options available. Cost and what the end result will be!
Remember, most don't know to ask about other kinds of rock or sand.
I can tell you, that many of the noobies go to a LFS and get done this way it cost them and us in the long run.
If they get unseasoned LR from LFS and has a bad start (a hard cycle from bad rock)
Then when they see that only bacteria,a few tube worms, bristle worms and cor. alge really comes back instead of what the salesman or saleswoman has told them they will tell many more people bad things then the good things about the salt water hobby( like the owner of one LFS told me that everything that was on it in the ocean will come back when you put it in salt water) I am a patient man,I didn't know any better, I waited for years just purple and a few worms.
So I started reading posts about TBS or tbsaltwater.com around 1998 -1999
I liked what I read and seen from the pictures! As I said I am patient, I was sure as I was reading those posts It all had to be lies, I couldn't have not known there were other options out there, that were real and not lies. But the good post kept a comming!
I added up what I spent in all going with what I thought was the cheaper way, my mistake!I could have got the TBS Package the first time cheaper including the shipping! But I didn't know better!
For over 10 years now I still figured there had to be scam or only the good pictures of TBS live rock was being posted. As I said I am patient but I figured if I keep waiting I will die not knowing if an average joe or jane like me can really get REAL LIVE ROCK with already most of the critters I like to watch in and on them from ordering online.
I never lost my interest in a saltwater or LR tank.Some of us like a few natural critters and some Good LR in our tank and can watch it for hours a day for years, I KNOW
I think some people forget when giving advice about live rock that not everybody will cover it completely with corals which looks good too, but not for me!
I guess what i am trying to say is for me it is like this:
For those who don't think about Live Rock like I do, the next time you go buy a coral call me and i'll sell you one. I'll send you a hand full of beach sand and maybe a coral has sponded an egg that has washed up on the beach, and if the sun and being dry for no telling how long hasn't killed it, when you put it in your tank maybe then it will grow, But good luck it didn't work for me :mad2:
As I said I am patient, after 13 years I bought a TBS Package and I love it, I only wish I had known 13 years ago.
I just don't understand why most of the more experenced reefers always looks at a noobie as if they are gonna be the next person with a 300 gal. tank with $100,000.00 worth of coral, so they tell them that all live rock is the same because in their minds everyone, and I mean everyone just needs live rock for the bacteria they house and the few filter feeders they might have. What about the noobies that just want a real cool Live Rock tank, should we all half to wait for maybe something to grow, and come alive, if not why not tell them about other already REAL LIVE ROCK with stuff like all color tunicates sea squirts, barnicles,all color sponges,Speg.worms!feather dusters, bristle worms,Dif color cor.alge, sea weed, mexican calc. alge, cup corals, mini brains, good hitchickers like pistol shrimp, P. crabs, green em. crabs, Red and green Matr. crabs, many small star fish, mist. snails, mist.urchins, mol. and clams, very cool looking orange snail with out a shell its top looks and feels like a jelly fish but has a foot like a snail? and a few bad ones too like gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp which I like, big rock crab, and many more?
Thats just what I can think of right now, and that is just in my order, No it may not be as bright and fluffy looking as even a $10,000.00 reef tank but it is what I like and I will continue to share my oppinion as long as I can breath or type :blown:
PS.From 13 years of my old rock tank it never inspired 1 person to get a saltwater tank, and after only 10 days with this from TBS I will be ordering a package for a family member that likes the REAL stuff when I get my next shipment in a few days :dance: NOW I Have Done My Part :lolspin:
OK, I lied I can't say anything in a short message sorry for bad spelling
I guess I am going to half to learn to just answer questions as asked, I guess I go in to too much detail giving my answers.
But too me there is never just one answer on that subject!
I just thought if i could help even 1 noobie to the saltwater aqu.world I would have done my part.
I see so many people so excited to get there first tank setup from there LFS and are mis guided from the moment they walk in the door.
Some of the sales people working in some LFS are such a sales person you can almost imagine them walking in with a big cigar and a tiger in hand
Any one reading this knows what i am talking about (they would sell you there mothers own shirt off her back and make it sound good!I would like to see a post with a true and complete side by side comparison of the different options of Real Live Rock & Live Sand and the normal live rock and sand from most LFS for noobies to see both options available. Cost and what the end result will be!
Remember, most don't know to ask about other kinds of rock or sand.
I can tell you, that many of the noobies go to a LFS and get done this way it cost them and us in the long run.
If they get unseasoned LR from LFS and has a bad start (a hard cycle from bad rock)
Then when they see that only bacteria,a few tube worms, bristle worms and cor. alge really comes back instead of what the salesman or saleswoman has told them they will tell many more people bad things then the good things about the salt water hobby( like the owner of one LFS told me that everything that was on it in the ocean will come back when you put it in salt water) I am a patient man,I didn't know any better, I waited for years just purple and a few worms.
So I started reading posts about TBS or tbsaltwater.com around 1998 -1999
I liked what I read and seen from the pictures! As I said I am patient, I was sure as I was reading those posts It all had to be lies, I couldn't have not known there were other options out there, that were real and not lies. But the good post kept a comming!
I added up what I spent in all going with what I thought was the cheaper way, my mistake!I could have got the TBS Package the first time cheaper including the shipping! But I didn't know better!
For over 10 years now I still figured there had to be scam or only the good pictures of TBS live rock was being posted. As I said I am patient but I figured if I keep waiting I will die not knowing if an average joe or jane like me can really get REAL LIVE ROCK with already most of the critters I like to watch in and on them from ordering online.
I never lost my interest in a saltwater or LR tank.Some of us like a few natural critters and some Good LR in our tank and can watch it for hours a day for years, I KNOW
I think some people forget when giving advice about live rock that not everybody will cover it completely with corals which looks good too, but not for me!
I guess what i am trying to say is for me it is like this:
For those who don't think about Live Rock like I do, the next time you go buy a coral call me and i'll sell you one. I'll send you a hand full of beach sand and maybe a coral has sponded an egg that has washed up on the beach, and if the sun and being dry for no telling how long hasn't killed it, when you put it in your tank maybe then it will grow, But good luck it didn't work for me :mad2:
As I said I am patient, after 13 years I bought a TBS Package and I love it, I only wish I had known 13 years ago.
I just don't understand why most of the more experenced reefers always looks at a noobie as if they are gonna be the next person with a 300 gal. tank with $100,000.00 worth of coral, so they tell them that all live rock is the same because in their minds everyone, and I mean everyone just needs live rock for the bacteria they house and the few filter feeders they might have. What about the noobies that just want a real cool Live Rock tank, should we all half to wait for maybe something to grow, and come alive, if not why not tell them about other already REAL LIVE ROCK with stuff like all color tunicates sea squirts, barnicles,all color sponges,Speg.worms!feather dusters, bristle worms,Dif color cor.alge, sea weed, mexican calc. alge, cup corals, mini brains, good hitchickers like pistol shrimp, P. crabs, green em. crabs, Red and green Matr. crabs, many small star fish, mist. snails, mist.urchins, mol. and clams, very cool looking orange snail with out a shell its top looks and feels like a jelly fish but has a foot like a snail? and a few bad ones too like gorilla crabs, mantis shrimp which I like, big rock crab, and many more?
Thats just what I can think of right now, and that is just in my order, No it may not be as bright and fluffy looking as even a $10,000.00 reef tank but it is what I like and I will continue to share my oppinion as long as I can breath or type :blown:
PS.From 13 years of my old rock tank it never inspired 1 person to get a saltwater tank, and after only 10 days with this from TBS I will be ordering a package for a family member that likes the REAL stuff when I get my next shipment in a few days :dance: NOW I Have Done My Part :lolspin:
OK, I lied I can't say anything in a short message
sorry for bad spelling04redmach1
New member
I am actually considering opening a saltwater/reef store in the Phenix City, AL area. There isn't really a good TRUE saltwater/reef store in our area. Have to go to Montgomery or Atlanta. I liked the guys at Aquarium Fantasies in Montgomery off ATL HWY for Alabama area.
Well wish you good luck if you do, right now it is hard in some areas.
The closest one is over an hour drive from me and they only carry about 20 or so fish in stock, 4-5 corals in stock and about 100 lbs. of dead, stinky rock for about $10.99 a lb.
and that is on a good week, red slim in their tanks, I wil drive to Dallas or Houston to look at a good selection if I here about a good store.
I am sure others would do the same in your area if you provide your customers with #1 good service and tell the truth even if it cost you a sell, they will be back!
#2 good quallity stuff and good selection
#3 low prices (remember that you want to make money, but lower prices will mean more people will come and check out your stuff and high volume sales WILL make money even at lower prices) Right now most people can't afford or is affraid to spend $35.00 for a mush room like RIC. If they lowered the priced them down to $3-5 dollars each pol. they couldn't get them fast enough, they can collect 100 per day each person, that is still 3-5 hundred a day, WOW I could do well off that instead I will probly never get any because they are raping the consumer, if you notice anything to do with fish, pets, live rock or sand, the prices are crazy. ( Example: If I go to my LFS and buy a 36 inch T5 lamp, it will cost me here about $30-37.00 each lamp. I can shop online and buy a pack of 4 for $19.00 and they still make money at that)That is insane markup, LFS don't have to mark up the stuff so high, they are just greedy. They don't pay enough for good help so most of the time you are being told stuff from kids out of school trying to do a good job but hasn't been trained with the right information, they have been trained to sell sell sell, thats it. Go to a LFS and tell them you have a degree in marine bio. and you need a job, the owner will kindly tell you that you are over quallified for the position. I used to raise baby parrots and sell for $50.00 the LPS sold them for $350.00 each same birds all hand fed!
If you treat people or customers like your best friend you can't get rid of them, they will buy from you because they know that they are getting what they want not what you want to sell for the day! It makes a huge difference. And don't give stuff away unless it was gave to you or you will be out of buisness soon. I don't expect to make or show a profit for at least the first year, take extra money and reinvest back in the buisness so not to show a profit so you don't get taxed to death! Build it up so that when you do start having to pay taxes you can afford to off high number of sales not high prices
Also I would suggest go to the city manager and tell him or her what you want to do and they have the power to help you set it up so you don't have to pay taxes for first yr or even 5 yrs. they will still make tax money off you when when that time is over and for ever after that, thats how all big buisness do it or they don't come to that town or city! They have lawyers to talk for them but you are as good as any of them just walk in with head held high a talk buisness it works!
Good Luck!
The closest one is over an hour drive from me and they only carry about 20 or so fish in stock, 4-5 corals in stock and about 100 lbs. of dead, stinky rock for about $10.99 a lb.
and that is on a good week, red slim in their tanks, I wil drive to Dallas or Houston to look at a good selection if I here about a good store.
I am sure others would do the same in your area if you provide your customers with #1 good service and tell the truth even if it cost you a sell, they will be back!
#2 good quallity stuff and good selection
#3 low prices (remember that you want to make money, but lower prices will mean more people will come and check out your stuff and high volume sales WILL make money even at lower prices) Right now most people can't afford or is affraid to spend $35.00 for a mush room like RIC. If they lowered the priced them down to $3-5 dollars each pol. they couldn't get them fast enough, they can collect 100 per day each person, that is still 3-5 hundred a day, WOW I could do well off that
instead I will probly never get any because they are raping the consumer, if you notice anything to do with fish, pets, live rock or sand, the prices are crazy. ( Example: If I go to my LFS and buy a 36 inch T5 lamp, it will cost me here about $30-37.00 each lamp. I can shop online and buy a pack of 4 for $19.00 and they still make money at that)That is insane markup, LFS don't have to mark up the stuff so high, they are just greedy. They don't pay enough for good help so most of the time you are being told stuff from kids out of school trying to do a good job but hasn't been trained with the right information, they have been trained to sell sell sell, thats it. Go to a LFS and tell them you have a degree in marine bio. and you need a job, the owner will kindly tell you that you are over quallified for the position. I used to raise baby parrots and sell for $50.00 the LPS sold them for $350.00 each same birds all hand fed!If you treat people or customers like your best friend you can't get rid of them, they will buy from you because they know that they are getting what they want not what you want to sell for the day! It makes a huge difference. And don't give stuff away unless it was gave to you or you will be out of buisness soon. I don't expect to make or show a profit for at least the first year, take extra money and reinvest back in the buisness so not to show a profit so you don't get taxed to death! Build it up so that when you do start having to pay taxes you can afford to off high number of sales not high prices
Also I would suggest go to the city manager and tell him or her what you want to do and they have the power to help you set it up so you don't have to pay taxes for first yr or even 5 yrs. they will still make tax money off you when when that time is over and for ever after that, thats how all big buisness do it or they don't come to that town or city! They have lawyers to talk for them but you are as good as any of them just walk in with head held high a talk buisness it works!
Good Luck!
