Live Rocks really needed?

ozadars

ozadars

New member
Almost all of us use liverocks in our tanks. They provide space mainly for aerobic bacteria and some for anaerobic bacteria. In an article of Reef Keeping it says aerobic bacterias can grow anywhere from surfaces of corals to surface of glass.
If that is true, then do we use liverocks for;
- anaerobic bacterias?
- extra space for bacterias?
- fauna that come with them?

and according to your answers new questions full my mind;
- If we use live rock for the capebility of keeping anaerobic bacterias on, then how effective are these anaerobic bacterias over nitrate levels and do all live rocks provide enough denitrification? do DIY live rocks provide any or enough denitrification?
- If we use live for the extra space for aerobic bacterias , think of a tank without any rocks but just sand and the sand should have a very large total surface for aerobic bacterias. Isnt this enough for nitrification? If not, then how many rocks should we add to the tank?


I dont want to use live rocks just because everyone use it. I know we need something to use to place corals on or for fish to hide and at least to make tank look natural but I can do this with any regular cheap rock that doesnt harm water, why should I spend a fortune to live rocks?
 
I do not think you need live rock in a system.

It is used as a surface for bacteria and corals, for the fauna it contains and for decoration. The old rule of 1 pound per gallon was before live sand was recognized as a valuable biological filter.

In my opinion, you could quite nicely set up a tank with just live sand and it would work just as well as rock. I also personally think that many of the tanks I see have way to much rock and not nearly enough open water.

Fred
 
Introducing biodiversity is one reason. The various life on the rock help to recreate the vast diversity of the ocean in our tanks. Patience is another. Some people can't wait to put the tank together, cycle as quickly as possible, and throw in the inhabitants. Cured Live rock allows us a fairly quick method of tank setup. If cost is a concern, use base rock and seed it with a couple pieces of live rock. It will all be live in the end.
 
Cured live rock is just rock that somebody let sit in a system for a while until most of the life on it died. Best rock I ever got was uncured, strait from the boat to a box and shipped to me. It stank for 3 months but talk about diversity.

OK, back on topic... All you need is a little rock to seed your system. Beyond that, its up to you how muck you put in the tank for looks.

Fred
 
Why I ask this is because as I live in Turkey I am not really sure how does a natural LR looks and how much does should it weight. In Turkey we use LR's that come out of the seas around Turkey and I dont see even one reason for using these rocks instead of any other rock because they are not very light and you need a lot of them to fill the tank.

My main question is I thought liverocks that come from Tonga, Marshalls, Fiji and other tropical places are mainly coral skelatons that turn into rocks over time, is that true? and does it have any advantages like releasing calsium or buffering pH?

Thanks
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8947353#post8947353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ozadars
Why I ask this is because as I live in Turkey I am not really sure how does a natural LR looks and how much does should it weight. In Turkey we use LR's that come out of the seas around Turkey and I dont see even one reason for using these rocks instead of any other rock because they are not very light and you need a lot of them to fill the tank.

My main question is I thought liverocks that come from Tonga, Marshalls, Fiji and other tropical places are mainly coral skelatons that turn into rocks over time, is that true? and does it have any advantages like releasing calsium or buffering pH?

Thanks
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct here. You cannot use any random rock. You want rocks that will not leach any harmful chemicals, has a nice surface area vs weight, and will "buffer" your system's PH.

You can certainly save $$ by buying "base" rock and then adding a few little pieces of "live" rock to seed it. In fact, I'd suggest that if you go this route, take your piece of live rock and smash it up a bit and then scatter it around the base rock.


So where is Izmir?
I went to Istanbul for my honeymoon about 4 years ago. Best trip of my life. The only thing that I thougt was funny was how you drink Turkish coffee and Reki while greeks dring greek coffee and Uzo. If you told either that they were the same thing, they would get all ****ed off.
In fact, I saw a cookbook in Turkey for turkish cuisine (food) and then in Greece, I saw the exact same cookbook (cover, pictures, recipes) except it was for greek cooking.
:confused: ;)
 
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Then it is true that natural liverocks from tropical places buffer pH and also release calsium. I wonder if liverocks from the Turkish waters do the same

PS: pm'ing you for your comment on Turkey.
 
I do not think that rock will actually buffer your system It is very porous though.

Everyone that I have talked to that has spent time in Turkey was very impressed by the people. I would love to visit some day.

Fred
 
Don't forgot it as a great place for pods to hide while the lights are on.


! had a friend take a vacation on a mediterranean cruise he stated
the best stop was Istanbol, Turkey - sorry for the spelling err
 
IME - No. The Jaubert method is one example of a reefkeeping method that is more than 10 years old where little or no live rock is used. The Jaubert gravel substrate is cultured with live microorganisms, and some means to import microfauna is necessary IMO. Search on "Jaubert" or "Monaco Aqurium". The Jaubert method is also described in Delbreek & Sprung, Reefkeeping Volume 3.

IME, live rock is the primary vector to bring the worst pests in reefkeeping into your system. So I'd go past saying "not necessary" and question the practice as being desirable at all.
 
yea, live rocks are nice to have but not necessary ... for me, the aquascape comes first!!! Use just enough rocks to make your tank beautiful, and no more!!!

Forget about the ph buffer, or any other supplements that it can provide!!! I know that DSB offers some sort of supplimental buffering ... but it is sooooo minimal that it will not contribute for anything!!!

As for the quality of rocks, make do with the best you can. I'm in Malaysia, and live rocks here are also VERY HEAVY!!! However, with careful selection, we are still able to choose the best of the worse!!! ;)
 
BTY, my wife has been bugging me to go to Turkey for a few years now ... from what my wife's been telling me, it's a great place to visit!!! ;)
 
hello goodreef. i'm from malaysia too. i live in Seri Kembangan selangor. Can i ask you where is a good place to but saltwater aquarium stuff here?
 
Most of the live rock people speak of, are pieces of a old coral reef...aragonite....very porous with a large internal surface area. Regular rocks without the porosity and internal surface area would not provide you with biological functions you may desire for a marine aquarium. My understanding is that the Mediterranean does not have coral reefs...your closest source I guess would be the Red Sea.
 
Aquacultured rock in the USA is terrestrial rock( not calcium based )seeded in the ocean. It works just fine in reef tanks.


BTW, I'm also of the opinion too many aquarists have too much rock in their tanks.
 
"....A trailer load of 20,000 pounds of rock, collected in the Keys. The rock was part of an ancient coral reef, now laying around on private property. The rock has been rained on and eroding for eons, giving it the porous texture that makes great live rock...."

http://www.tbsaltwater.com/index.html

From my reading of this site the best rock they tested was calcium based...it appears they use ancient coral reef rock not terrestrial rock. Even should they have used terrestrial rock (i.e. some igneous rock such as granite) I would question its' "bioactivity" in terms of biofilms, nitrate/nitrite, etc. given the poor porosity and low surface area as opposed to alternatives. But I would be open to seeing a study showing equality.

There is a manmade rock "Aragocrete" (aragonite gravel and Portland cement) developed at GARF http://garf.org/ ....

Hawaiian Live Rock is another company that cultures man-made live rocks in ancient Hawaiian fish ponds...I guess is made of Aragocrete.

Anyway, after looking at this stuff, ozadars you might give Aragocrete a try...check the GARF site.
 
I think what seems to get lost on MOST people in this hobby is that ANY rock becomes "live" after it is placed in a "live" system. Some rocks may have more micro surface area than others, but this is not just when looking at "ocean" rock vs "terrestrial" rock. There are many places around the world where "terrestrial" rock was once on the bottom of the ocean and many places in the ocean where the rock was once on dry land. Just as rock formations outcrop on dry land, they outcrop underwater. In many places these rocks ARE what the reef builds on and what is collected and sold as LIVE ROCK. It is not so much what the rock is made of but what GROWS on it (or in it) that makes it "LIVE".

Plenty of people use DIY rock or terrestrial rock to form their "live rock" filtration. It may take a bit longer to come online... but it works just the same.

Bean
 
live rock starts the base for a healthy mini-ecosystem without this base your tank, down the road, will lack some animals mosting the ones you cant buy in shops. These animals are the some of the best cleaners out there. also there is branch rock which looks neat and does not take up of space
 
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