livestock trouble

[SPN]

Any fish disease treatment guru's among us?

I have lost 10 fish so far and looks like I am going to lose the rest very shortly.

Tried HypoSalinity in the 210, currently @ 1.011

If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them.
I posted on the Fish Disease thread.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12698728#post12698728

I can not help but feel responsible for the Livestock loss that Dave (the pircs) experienced in his tank after housing my livestock. SORRY Dave.

Thank you

Steve

 

[nwrogers]

Hi Steve:

I wish I had some advice for you but I don't really have much to offer. I have experienced the same thing you are going through twice and it is really horrible Both times I lost all of my fish and there was nothing I could do about it. I tried a bunch of different things and nothing worked well. After losing all of my fish I decided to let you tank run without fish for 5 weeks before getting any new ones. So my only advice is to let the tank run fallow for 5-6 weeks and don't waste too much time or money trying medications because most don't work.

PS if you have a quarantine tank or if you are fish only without live rock you could try Quinine. It is the only medication I have tried that worked a little. The only place to get it was on rt. 26, you can check to see if he still carries it. The medication is very strong, expensive, and a little dangerous. If you insist on trying something that would be my recommendation on where to start. Good luck!

 

[SPN]

Nate,

Thanks, When this is over, I will not add anyhing for at least 6 weeks.

The Quinine tank has claimed 4 so far.
2 butterflies, a yellow tang and a Niger Trigger.
The Vlamingi is in the tank now on his side.

The Crosshatch and the Speckled Tang are currently in the Acrifalvine tank.

 

[nwrogers]

Bummer

Sounds like you are already doing everything you can. Good luck!

 

[Dave VG]

Need to go lower. HypoSalinity needs to be below 1.011. Like 1.009 to 1.008. This makes a difference. What have you done besides the hypo so far?

 

[drbronx]

It's also important to make sure nitrates remain within tolerable levels in QT. Nate provided a good perspective. Sometimes there is nothing you can do but helplessly watch the plague run its course. Try not to blame yourself. Moving fish is very stressful for them and greatly increases the likelyhood of an outbreak since their immune systems are heavily comromised. If you need to euthenize any fish, one of the most humane and accepted means is to place them in the freezer where they quickly and assumably painlesly lose consciousness. Sorry you (and the fish) have to endure this.

 

[SPN]

Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement

I just moved the Crosshatch and Speckled from the Acrifalvine tank to a 10 minute fresh water dip, and into the Quinine tank.

I almost tossed the Vlamingi, but he swam a little when I tried to move him and now he is leaning on the back wall of the tank. Not really an improvement, but he seems to be saying, "but i'm not dead yet" Hopefully the fact that he is not laying down is a good sign, and not just false hope.

I am unable to get the remaining inhabitiants out of the 210.
1-2 Yellow tangs
1 Squirrel Fish
1 foxface Rabbit Fish
but I will keep trying.

 

[SPN]

Dave,

My Hydrometer only goes to 1.010

 

[RyanEG]

Spend the 50 on a refracometer especially with a system that sized. Not being a smart *** but that is the best advice I can give in this situation : (

 

[SPN]

Ryan,
Just got the 210 and never even thought of a refractometer until just now.

 

[Dave VG]

Your doing the best you can for them at this point. Just don't give up and keep doen what you are doing. Good luck SPN

 

[Blugobi]

Steve,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles and I do feel your pain and it is agonizing to know that there is only so much one can do. I know its not what you want to hear but as Dr.Bronx mentioned Euthinizing is usually the best and quickest way to end the situation, what ever pathogen is running thru your tank is obviously a deadly one, but once all the fish are gone it will go dormant, but may always be present with in your system. With that said if you should have any survivors, keep them in QT for 6 weeks or longer if you can. You have an awesome system and in time you will get it all straight.....if you need any help, give me a shout, I'll help where I can.......

Geo

 

[SPN]

George, Please help me out with the following statement.. "what ever pathogen is running thru your tank is obviously a deadly one, but once all the fish are gone it will go dormant, but may always be present with in your system. With that said if you should have any survivors, keep them in QT for 6 weeks or longer if you can"

Any suggestions on how to find out what this is/was and how to prevent future outbreaks?
I posted on the RC fish disease forum, STRS, URS as well as
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx

Once this is over, I do not plan on adding anything for at least 6 weeks. Are you suggesting that I move everything to secondary tanks for at least 6 weeks? If that is the case, I will to try and get the three remaing fish out of the 210, assuming they are Still alive when I try and catch them again Sunday.
What about the Urchins, Starfish and Shrimp? No reason to move them from the tanks, is there?

Please let me know how you suggest that I proceed from here to start my tank back on the right track.

Thank you

Steve

 

[SPN]

It has been suggested on the fish disease forum to give them a formalin 3 bath. Anyone know where I can get Formalin 3 today?

 

[RyanM]

I am sorry to hear about your troubles Steve. Its a hard thing to go thru when your tank is dieing. I have never been one to medicate tho. Nates right most if not all of them are a shot in the dark and IMO just the stess alone from meds,hypo and catching them to dip or quaretine on an already very sick fish is actually doing more harm than good.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this is whats your amonia and nitrate lvls? All those fish in a new system had to produce an amonia spike shortly followed by a nitrate spike.
They wont live thru a full blown amonia cycle. If you even see just a little amonia then you need to dilute it with a water change.
Since the number of fish is going down Im sorry to say. It may not be as bad the second time around with the spike. Dilution is the solution for pollution.

 

[SPN]

Ryan,

Parameters as of Saturday afternoon,

Using my API test kit

ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
nitrate 20-40
PH 8.2

 

[thepircs]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12703560#post12703560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RyanM
I am sorry to hear about your troubles Steve. Its a hard thing to go thru when your tank is dieing. I have never been one to medicate tho. Nates right most if not all of them are a shot in the dark and IMO just the stess alone from meds,hypo and catching them to dip or quaretine on an already very sick fish is actually doing more harm than good.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read this is whats your amonia and nitrate lvls? All those fish in a new system had to produce an amonia spike shortly followed by a nitrate spike.
They wont live thru a full blown amonia cycle. If you even see just a little amonia then you need to dilute it with a water change.
Since the number of fish is going down Im sorry to say. It may not be as bad the second time around with the spike. Dilution is the solution for pollution.

Ryan,

He has established rock and sandbed from the system he bought. The rock was never out of water and should not have cycled at all. There was really not much of a difference in moving the system from Pittsburgh to here than there is in a cross town move. The fish had some cool water issues during transport but they were seemingly all fine and eating within a day. I lost a yellow tang suddenly towards the end of the period that his fish were here. I had the fish for months and he was very hardy. A few days after Steve's fish had gone home I experienced the same die off in my system( well been established) and I had frequently performed many tests (I was concerned about the huge bio-load added to my system) and nothing was showing up abnormal. I even tested during the die off and the water parameters were fine for PH, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrites. I am wondering if the containers used to transport them had some sort of pollution from the olives that they previously held. I talked to Tim and he will test the water for us when we can get it to him. I have done over a 50% water change in my system in the past week or so and the remaining fish seem to have survived. My percula didn't look like he was going to make it at first but he is still eating well and looking better every day. The corals and the rose anemones have looked fine through out this ordeal. I feel bad that we have convinced Steve to "Go for it" and get a bigger system that doesn't filter with undergravel methodology and now this happens to him. All I can say is that even with the loss of livestock he still got a heck of a deal on the system. I absolutely feel for him about losing the fish and I became quite attached to a few of the specimens myself. Do they have fish loss counselors?

Dave

 

[o.a.j]

As far as finding out what is was (is) I would send one of the dead ones to Cornell . You'll be waiting a while to hear back from them . I would like to say it's awesome to see all the people on here care about the fish. Back when I started out nobody(well most I should say) cared they we're like don't care I'll go get another one. Like there was an endless supply of fish . I feel for you and hope for the best .

 

[SPN]

Good evening,

Quick update.

I tried a methylene blue freshwater bath, as suggested by the Disease, Health and Wellness - by Kelly Jedlicki forum on Marinedepot.com, to the CrossHatch and Vlemengi,

2 more causualties to report.
The Speckled died last evening
The Vlamangi did not survive his Methylene blue freshwater bath. His first and only freshwater dip.

Only 4 remain
Crosshatch in the Quinine Quarantine tank.

3 remain in the 210, I just can not seem to get these guys out.
to dip and Quarantine

Yellow Tang
Squirrel fish
Foxface Rabbit Fish.

Thank you

Steve

 

[thepircs]

Of all the fish to survive, the ugly ugly ugly squirrel fish........