Lockjaw

[ataller]

Small problem... I woke up this morning to find that one of my percs mouth is stuck open! I fed the fish this morning and all he did was suck on the tips of my frogspawn (maybe sucking food off of it)?

I looked on the internet and RC and could not find any definitive answers. Some say it is permanent, some say it is temporary and will go away (swelling from a frogspawn sting?).

Can anyone help?


Here is a photo of what I am talking about

Thank you

Adam

 

[Aerowen]

thats funny, i woke up yesterday to my clowns mouth exactly like that ( its gone today) im curious what causes this?

 

[ataller]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13211911#post13211911 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aerowen
thats funny, i woke up yesterday to my clowns mouth exactly like that ( its gone today) im curious what causes this?

Did it last the whole day? My guys mouth is still as stretched out as it was at 9am when I checked on them! I tried to feed him, he seemed mildly interested but couldn't figure out how to eat with his mouth wide open.

I stopped by my LFS (the one that I trust) and we agreed that it could possibly be a sting from the frogspawn.

Anyone else have any info for us?

Adam

 

[Aerowen]

yeah it lasted about a day and a half, its gone now. she did try to eat but could not close her mouth so just got ****ed off and went to the anenome. i also have a frogspawn but never see her near it.

 

[stagefright13]

I had a goldfish do that many many years ago and it died soon after. I hope that is not the case for you. Poor guy... Not sure what causes that.

 

[crsswift70]

I've seen a pic of a clown doing that because of a parasite in it's mouth. I'm not saying that's what it is, just that's the only other pic i've seen like that.

 

[ataller]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13217477#post13217477 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by crsswift70
I've seen a pic of a clown doing that because of a parasite in it's mouth. I'm not saying that's what it is, just that's the only other pic i've seen like that.

Any chance you still have access to that photo?

I just fed the tank, and he is eating now. His mouth is still open (a little less) and he can at least move it now to capture food. So it looks like it is getting better. I do not see anything in his mouth, though I am sure the parasite could be quite small? What would I be looking for?


Adam

 

[crsswift70]

well, it was visible from a head on view inside its mouth. It was a small version of those giant saltwater roach looking things... hmm.. what were they called. It's related to land dwelling pillbugs i think. someone will know

 

[ataller]

Isopods?

 

[ataller]

Day 3.

Still has an open mouth. Yesterday I saw him eat, which is fine and all but I am still worried about his open mouth. He seems a bit lethargic as well.

Anyone else have any experience with this? I searched WWM and found other cases but they either resolved on their own or the clownfish died. No one has an explanation

Think I should take away his frogspawn or will that just stress him out?

Adam

PS I cannot see any isopods in his mouth

 

[ssavader]

I had the same thing happen to a cichlid of mine before I got into marines. Althouh it looked odd, he seemed to have developed a method of eating, probably by using his pharyngeal teeth instead of his oral teeth, unfortunately not an option for clowns. I think that a possible cause could be over-extension of the mandible and maxillary bones, resulting in injury to the bones themselves or the associated tendons and/or ligaments (similar to what would happen in humans with a really over-extended yawn). Hopefully the injury is minor and it will improve before he starves. I would try to move him to QT to reduce his stress and the competition for food.

 

[ataller]

If it was some sort of trauma that caused this, at least he will not get worse. I doubt he will starve as he is still able to eat. I fed them again 2x today, both times he was out and about all over the tank eating like a madman.

I now believe that the title of this post is a bit of a misnomer. I see him mouth this mouth slightly when he is eating, so it is not a complete locking of the jaw.

I will keep monitoring them and searching the internet for an answer.

If anything changes I will be sure to post.

Thank you for your insight.


Adam

 

[ataller]

In case anyone else runs into this in the future I wanted to post a conclusion.

Day 5, Mr. Clownfish can now close his mouth again. No other symptoms of an illness are present. I believe we can say he fully recovered.

In terms of a Dx, I got an email back from Bob Fenner at WWM, he believes that it is an interaction between the frogspawn and the clownfish. Some sort of reaction to the fish's new host. I am thinking perhaps he was sung in his mouth where he wasn't protected resulting in inflammation/swelling which prevented his mouth from closing.


Thank you for reading, hopefully this helps someone someday.

Adam

 

[Cobanos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13242747#post13242747 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ataller
In terms of a Dx, I got an email back from Bob Fenner at WWM, he believes that it is an interaction between the frogspawn and the clownfish. Some sort of reaction to the fish's new host. I am thinking perhaps he was sung in his mouth where he wasn't protected resulting in inflammation/swelling which prevented his mouth from closing.

Incredible, I was posting on the same issue on another forum a week ago. My clown moved into a frogspawn and after a few days his mouth locked open. I thought it was an injury from a scuffle as he is the odd man out of a group of three mature oscellaris, but this gives me a whole new explanation which makes more sense. Mine got over it in 3 days, all is fine now and he still hangs in there, so this may in effect be related to acquiring immunity.

Cheers,

John D.

 

[beetlenut33]

I just noticed my clown fish with her mouth open yesterday. Today, it is still opened. She started hosting my frogspawn about 2 weeks ago. I hope she pulls through.

 

[ataller]

Well if it helps, I never saw any evidence of this killing clowns, and I am glad to report that 4 months later, she is doing just fine. Still hosts in the frogspawn and has no problems with her mouth anymore. It happened a couple more times after the first, but I have no seen anything like it in a while.

Adam

 

[JHemdal]

I haven't kept clowns with frogspawn, so I can't comment on that, but here is an excerpt from my Advanced marine Aquarium Techniques book that describes a similar episode:

Hyperextension of mouth: In an unusual medical case, a blue line angelfish, Chaetodontoplus septrionalis bit so vigorously at some algae that its mouth became stuck in a hyperextended position. While the fish could still breath, it could not feed normally. As one tenet of medicine is, “First, do no harm” the fish was left to its own devices to se if it would recover on its own. After a day with no improvement, the fish was anesthetized using MS-222, and the mouth was gently manipulated. The mouth seemed completely locked in the wide open position. Eventually, a small bone was located at the top of the isthmus between the jaws and the fish’s head. Depressing this, (like the locking spine on a triggerfish) allowed the entire mouth structure to return to its normal position. The fish began feeding normally the next day.

As a follow-up to the above text, I recently had a Serranus sp. that smacked its mouth when it went after some food, and actually broke its maxillary. I tried the trick mentioned above, but it did not work. After a month, it has healed on its own.

Jay Hemdal

 

[mikejones]

I had this happened to my clown like a year+ ago and it was caused by the clown bitting on the frogspawn thinking it was food , I was really worried and within 3 days the clown was ok to this day she's doing great. Just my 2 cents ;D

 

[brtfreud]

It sounds like the frogspawn could be causing the mouth to be aggravated and thus keeping it open. This happened to mine with my hammer coral, but the clown eventually learned to not suck on the coral.