Long term LARGE reef tank planning questions

[venlaren]

Hey guys,

First post on this forum, I am hoping for some decent info/ possibly a reality check?


My wife and I have been talking about building up to a very large reef tank over the next few years. This is likely going to be about a 5 - 10 year venture to get where we want to be, but we would love to get some feedback from someone that has created a massive tank.

Background, I grew up with a mixture of fresh and salt water tanks in the house. I helped with some maintenance, but knew next to nothing about what I was really doing. Now that I have my own home I really missed having fish around. We have set up 2 fresh water tanks, a 75 with Angels and coreys and a 38 community. We have learned a lot about freshwater, and we love our freshwater fish, but we have been talking about doing something a little different.

On a personal note, we are making plans to build a house in like 5 years or so. One Idea we have been kicking around, when we build the house, replacing the wall between the formal dining area and the living room with a massive in wall fish tank would be spectacular. We are thinking something like 6 foot tall, 4 foot wide, and like 12-15 foot long. We do not care about resell impact of changes we make to this house, as it is likely where we will live out our retirement. We plan to build it to be exactly where we want to be for the rest of our lives.

What we want to do for now. We are talking about starting, in a year or so, with a 150 gallon reef tank so that we can learn about salt water. If after keeping the 150 for a few years we are still loving the hobby, we really want to look into having the wall tank built when our next house is being built. Have any of you guys ever done something like this?

A few questions that we have not been able to find answers to:


1. Is this a ridiculous pipe dream that will be waaaaaayyyyyy to expensive to really pull off? (we both have really good jobs, but we are not talking 50 acre estates with live in servants kind of money)
2. Would the concrete slab need to be reinforced or extra thick to accommodate this?
3. Is anyone aware of a company that builds tanks of this size for home use?
4. For our freshwater, we keep extra filter media in one of our cans that fits the hospital tank filter. When we need hospital or quarantine we move the filter material over and set up the tank. Does this work for saltwater as well or would we need a small saltwater tank (40g or so for the 150 the 150 for the dream tank) that we keep cycled all the time for this purpose (I need to know this for the 150 not just the dream tank)?
5. If doing this as a reef tank is really unobtainable, would a freshwater tropical tank of this size be more reasonable, or do I just need to get a year round pass to a local aquarium and forget about it?

We have not chosen what kinds of fish or what kind of habitat. We have a lot of time to plan, obtain equipment, and learn about this kind of tank. If any of you guys have done something on this scale, I would love to hear you thoughts and stories.


Thanks guys,
Venlaren

 

[thegrun]

Most of what you want is doable, although unless you plan on scuba diving to clean and maintain your tank I would stick to 24" tall, 36" at the absolute maximum. Also if this is to be a reef tank with corals lighting becomes very problematic in tanks over 30" deep.
1. It certainly is possible, with the exception of the 6' height, and even that could be done although at a very high cost and a maintenance nightmare.
2. It would be very wise to consult a structural engineer for reinforcement requirements. Soil properties would need to be taken into the calculations.
3. No I do not.
4. Yes you can keep cycled media in your display tank or sump for use in your hospital tank, although with a large tank I would keep a couple of quarantine tanks running at all times.
5. A planted freshwater tank would be almost as much work as a reef tank, although much less expensive to buy and maintain.

 

[Dkuhlmann]

Welcome to Reef Central :thumbsup:

thegrun gave you great info especially about tank height. There is a forum here that is down the main forum page a ways called Large Reef Tanks. There are quite a few people that own HUGE tanks and their build process is in this forum. It will be most helpful to you I'm sure. Here is the link http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=252

Enjoy reading as many of them are quite lengthy.

 

[venlaren]

Thanks for the info guys, it was all very appreciated.

I am reading through some of the other large tank build threads now. Very impressive stuff.

 

[Indymann99]

Starting with a 150g (I prefer the dimensions of a 120g for various reasons), is a good idea.

your ~2150g wall divider tank may be a bit ambitious...
1. The tank alone will cost more than your CAR. You will need to contract a builder like ATM or other to build it onsite.
2. Waterchanges will be ~400g every 2-3 weeks... so now you ALSO need a place to mix and store 400g of SW.
3. A standard RODI system will take 30days to fill the tank
4. That RODI system will use 7000g of water EVERY month
5. Your sump will need to be ~500g
6. ATO will need to handle ~ 55g of EVAPORATION EVERY DAY.
7. you will need to scuba inside the tank to clean at least once a week (that part could be fun)

 

[stingeragent]

I'm guessing your in the neighboorhood of 50K at least for this setup not including maintenance. I too would nix the 6ft height. That would be a nightmare to clean. You could just do an 8ft 300-400 gallon tank and it would be much cheaper and more manageable, and still be able to keep just about any fish out there.

 

[venlaren]

Starting with a 150g (I prefer the dimensions of a 120g for various reasons), is a good idea.

your ~2150g wall divider tank may be a bit ambitious...
1. The tank alone will cost more than your CAR. You will need to contract a builder like ATM or other to build it onsite.
2. Waterchanges will be ~400g every 2-3 weeks... so now you ALSO need a place to mix and store 400g of SW.
3. A standard RODI system will take 30days to fill the tank
4. That RODI system will use 7000g of water EVERY month
5. Your sump will need to be ~500g
6. ATO will need to handle ~ 55g of EVAPORATION EVERY DAY.
7. you will need to scuba inside the tank to clean at least once a week (that part could be fun)

Why 120 over the 150, just curious?


The wife and I are not really worried about the cost, we have 5+ years to save up for the house build, and we are planning to wrap the tank into the house build so that the house will be built around the tank, and my very fancy kitchen that I have designed.

The rest of these numbers are good things to keep in mind, but I have to ask 55 gallon evaporation per day? That seems a bit high to me. That is like 3% a day. Over 3 weeks that would be more then 1/2 the tank. Is that right, or is my math off?

 

[venlaren]

I'm guessing your in the neighboorhood of 50K at least for this setup not including maintenance. I too would nix the 6ft height. That would be a nightmare to clean. You could just do an 8ft 300-400 gallon tank and it would be much cheaper and more manageable, and still be able to keep just about any fish out there.

Yeah, a lot of ppl are telling me 6ft high is not the way to go. I have been looking at a few places that do 8x3x3 and 8x4wx3h tanks. If my math is right it is like 540 - 720 gallons. That is smaller then I want to go, but I am going to reach out to a few of these places to see if they can do 12x4x3

 

[ReefWreak]

Why 120 over the 150, just curious?


The wife and I are not really worried about the cost, we have 5+ years to save up for the house build, and we are planning to wrap the tank into the house build so that the house will be built around the tank, and my very fancy kitchen that I have designed.

The rest of these numbers are good things to keep in mind, but I have to ask 55 gallon evaporation per day? That seems a bit high to me. That is like 3% a day. Over 3 weeks that would be more then 1/2 the tank. Is that right, or is my math off?

I like the idea of 150 too, since the custom ones I've seen recently are 5'x2'x2'. I kept a 120g tank, and it was perfect. 5'-6' of length just adds more real estate for fish to swim and for coral placement while keeping the perfect reaching depth of the 2' height and 2' back.

The evaporation will be very high, but not likely as much as suggested. you would want to put in an external ventilation unit as well as dehumidifer in the tank/sump room to remove all of that salt air. Even if it isn't 55g a day, it'll be a lot, and it'll have to go somewhere.

 

[venlaren]

4. Yes you can keep cycled media in your display tank or sump for use in your hospital tank, although with a large tank I would keep a couple of quarantine tanks running at all times.

Do you keep some fish in the quarantine tank to keep the cycle up, or do you dose it with ammonia weekly or something to keep the bacteria fed?

 

[Indymann99]

Keeping a cycled QT up and running is easy. just "ghost feed" once a week with some fish food.

 

[venlaren]

Keeping a cycled QT up and running is easy. just "ghost feed" once a week with some fish food.

AHHHH that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[ThRoewer]

What kind of reef tank would you have in mind? A real, growing reef with live corals or primarily a fish tank?

While likely still a maintenance nightmare 6 ft high may be feasible for a fish tank but with corals you will need the equivalent of a stadium floodlight to keep them alive.
The other option would be to use natural sunlight through a skylight, though there you are quite literally at the mercy of the elements.

Also, what is your budget for the setup and how much can you spend monthly on electricity, water and all the other things it takes to keep a tank up and running. Also keep in mind that you likely will need a decent sized room for the required technology, water storage,...

I personally would rather go with a couple of less large tanks to be able to keep different fish and build different biotopes (Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Pacific, Caribbean,...) or reef zones (outside reef, inside reef, sand zone with sea grass or macro algae, mangroves,...). Also connecting different zone tanks may cut down on your maintenance cost as the different zones have their function

If you are really dead set on a super large tank you may consider getting a contact with a public aquarium to get some ideas about the requirements and maintenance cost - they for sure know.

BTW: a planted freshwater tank of the same size is hardly any cheaper and may actually cause more work (plants can grow quite quickly and may need to be trimmed often).

 

[uncleL]

Roll Tide! Can't wait to see pics!

 

[Shawn O]

CustomAquariums.com lists these for their standard large tank sizes. This should give you a ball park idea on pricing and sizes. The deeper the tank the stronger your lighting needs. You may need to install a sky light or solar tubes above the tank to supplement your lights to grow coral.

L / W / H / Gals / $
10' / 3' / 3' / 640 / $3,321
10' / 3' / 4' / 856 / $7,864
10' / 4' / 3' / 860 / $3,955
10' / 4' / 4' / 1150 / $8,851
10' / 5' / 3' / 1079 / $4,650
10' / 5' / 4' / 1444 / $9,838
10' / 6' / 3' / 1298 / $5,213
10' / 6' / 4' / 1795 / $10,825
11.6' / 3' / 3' / 769 / $3,877
11.6' / 3' / 4' / 1029 / $9,261
11.6' / 4' / 3' / 1033 / $4,588
11.6' / 4' / 4' / 1382 / $10,400
11.6' / 5' / 4' / 1735 / $11,540
11.6' / 6' / 3' / 1560 / $6,000
11.6' / 6' / 4' / 2154 / $12,679
12' / 5' / 3' / 1297 /$5,360

 

[Timfish]

Here's a thread in the large reef tank forum of a comprabale size tank:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2292029

The author from the start planned on a system that would be easy to maintain and last 30+ years. Tank construction is very critical in my opinion. I've been keeping tanks for 32 years and have been messing with building tanks, both glass and acrylic, for most of that time. Glass and silicone probably have about a 15 - 20 year life expectancy and acrylic tanks built with a single part adhesive are probably worse than that. By far the best choice in my opinion is what PMRoger's did in the above thread and get starfire glass set in a FRP frame (Fiber Reinforced Plastic). A distant second would be acrylic assembled with a two part self-polymerizing adhesive done by a company with a long track record.

 

[venlaren]

What kind of reef tank would you have in mind? A real, growing reef with live corals or primarily a fish tank?


While likely still a maintenance nightmare 6 ft high may be feasible for a fish tank but with corals you will need the equivalent of a stadium floodlight to keep them alive.
The other option would be to use natural sunlight through a skylight, though there you are quite literally at the mercy of the elements.

Growing reef for sure. I have revised my plans to only be 3 foot deep now.

Also, what is your budget for the setup and how much can you spend monthly on electricity, water and all the other things it takes to keep a tank up and running. Also keep in mind that you likely will need a decent sized room for the required technology, water storage,...

Since this is like 5 years out we have not set a budget yet, but we are up for dropping 30-40k or more if needed. We are literally designing the new house we are having built around my kitchen and the fish tanks.

I personally would rather go with a couple of less large tanks to be able to keep different fish and build different biotopes (Red Sea, Indian Ocean, Pacific, Caribbean,...) or reef zones (outside reef, inside reef, sand zone with sea grass or macro algae, mangroves,...). Also connecting different zone tanks may cut down on your maintenance cost as the different zones have their function

We are not necessarily opposed to doing several good sized tanks. We just really enjoy having fish and we want nice aquariums. The idea of different reef zones is something we had not thought about. We are still in VERY early planning stages, so lots of research to do. I will be looking into this idea tonight. Thanks for that.

BTW: a planted freshwater tank of the same size is hardly any cheaper and may actually cause more work (plants can grow quite quickly and may need to be trimmed often).

Yeah, our planted 75 gets at minimum weekly pruning. The wife loved the look of the water wisteria, and that stuff grows like mad.

 

[venlaren]

Here's a thread in the large reef tank forum of a comprabale size tank:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2292029

The author from the start planned on a system that would be easy to maintain and last 30+ years. Tank construction is very critical in my opinion. I've been keeping tanks for 32 years and have been messing with building tanks, both glass and acrylic, for most of that time. Glass and silicone probably have about a 15 - 20 year life expectancy and acrylic tanks built with a single part adhesive are probably worse than that. By far the best choice in my opinion is what PMRoger's did in the above thread and get starfire glass set in a FRP frame (Fiber Reinforced Plastic). A distant second would be acrylic assembled with a two part self-polymerizing adhesive done by a company with a long track record.

That is a really nice setup. Thanks for that info. I will be studying this for ideas and inspiration.

 

[Sk8r]

Your biggest pain will be keeping algae off the glass of a 6' tall reef. FORTUNATELY the hobby has been devising some cures for that, including a magnet cleaner that looks like an old-style razor, (Tunze makes it). I have a tank deeper than my arm is long and would be lost without it.

OTOH, with that weight of water comes a diminishing return on glass thickness. Glass thickness on a 100 g tank is about 5/8ths inch. I don't know how much water 5/8ths can hold back safely, but a 12' run may need some bracing. And you may need to go to acrylic. Seattle Aquarium's big display dome is likely that. And it has good visibility.

Here's one other thing to think of: an infinite tank, ie, a cylinder. They require special mounting, because the 'works' have to be in the center, and you have to get access somehow. But it would take up less area, while the fish would never have a turnaround, and the rockwork would conceal the water intakes, etc. There are companies that do that. I got my tank from one such, and it is real, real solid. Heavy. We're going to redo the living room floor soon, and it's going to be interesting. But it can be done. And such future things should be on the planning list. Access. And refurbing.

 

[Taahirs]

Lighting a 6ft deep tank would be rally difficult.

Even 3ft you're going to have to use halides probably