Looking for Pond Inspiration and Advice

[carb850]

A friend of mine has a small pond (he estimates 500G) in his front yard with a few goldfish. It looks to be a pretty simple setup, round in shape with a rock edge on all sides and a spray in the middle. He contacted me about what algae eating fish to get because he is fighting algae. I suspect it might be green water rather than a covering algae but anyhow that is what started this.

I looked around and found some filters, UV sterolizers, plants, etc which I believe all can help and he is open to these ideas. I'm suggesting he does some waterfall and have some plants spread throughout. Also, wondering about any DIY biological filters etc.
However, before I got caught up too much in equipment I wondered if any of you have pictures of your ponds that you might be willing to share for inspiration?

 

[brian@sen]

Here is a pic of my pond.


This is a close up pic of my plant pond.

Clickable thumbs.

The only filtration is a 5 gal. bucket with fiber fill in it to catch the large pieces of crud from the main pond and the plants in the plant pond. Some plants work better under certain conditions than others but most filtering types work best in decent flow, full sun, and shallow water so the roots can reach the sediment on the bottom. Once my pond established itself I had no problems with algea.

 

[carb850]

Wow, that looks fantastic! Beautiful dog too.

So you have two ponds, one being a plant pond that cascades into the other? Any reason for separating them? How often do you have to change the fiber fill in the bucket? Also, do you run a surface skimmer/collection?

 

[brian@sen]

Yes 2 ponds. The reasons for separating the 2 is:
1) To prevent the invasive plants from spreading and covering your view of the pretty fish.
2) To keep the filtering type plants compacted together. The more the roots are intertwined the more they grow and filter to a point.
3) To keep the fish from eating the roots of the floating filtering plants.
4) To allow for a water fall.
You can still have plants in the main pond for shade like water lillies but the plants need to be potted and have big gravel on top of the dirt to keep the fish from up rooting the plants. Most fish will root in the pots like pigs and destroy your plants but decent size gravel helps alot. We only change the fiber fill as needed but usually it's about once a month or so. No surface skimmer, the waterfall keeps the surface agitated enough to prevent a film on the surface and the fish take care of anything living on the surface. My pond has a 3 inch drain in the bottom to allow me to clean the muck stuff off of the bottom of the main pond but I usually only do that twice a year.

 

[carb850]

Thanks much for the information. I will pass this along and see how big of a project my buddy wants to take on. If he does really want to ramp this up, I might give you a shout about some plant suggestions if that is okay?

BTW, are goldfish large enough to cause a problem with uprooting or are you using a large species of fish?

 

[brian@sen]

Just let me know if you have any questions. Even goldfish can get big in a pond but the small ones can muddy up the water if they start rooting. I have Koi, most are small to medium but one is about 20 inches long and they can really make a mess of everything.

 

[carb850]

Bump to an old thread.

My buddy is once again talking about his pond. I want to help him and he seems open to the advice but he isn't going to want to spend a lot of money on it. This is a small pond, I'd estimate 7'x4' (going off of memory). Right now, it is either drained or if it does have water nothing is alive in it. The previous owner to the house had built the pond which just consists of a small hole, lined with plastic, circled with rocks, then a pump in the center spraying water, goldfish. That was the entire setup.

He is open to the idea of plants but they want the fish too. Their main interest is the fish actually but I explained to him the filtering advantage to the plants. Since he is pretty much staring with nothing but a hole in the ground, what should he use for filtration? I know you mentioned the 5G bucket but is that remote with a water pump filtering it? Their front yard is small and I"m not sure were a 5G bucket could be hidden easily. I can get some basic measurement if that helps.

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[brian@sen]

My bucket is just to catch large sediment so it isn't entirely necessary but helps in maintenance. For a pond that size I would go with an all in 1 type of pump like this one from Dr's Foster and Smith. http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=5163+5186+17639&pcatid=17639
It has UV, mechanical, and biological filtration built in on top of being a fountain. Since he mainly wants fish, with a system like this you wouldn't need plants unless the pond gets little to no shade. With shallow ponds and no shade the temp can raise pretty quick and the fish will have problems adjusting. For plants I would look into potted plants. There are alot of different kinds of plants that work in pots in the water like papyrus, some elephant ears, some ferns, Lotus, and even curly willow trees. They'll provide some shade but be above the water to allow him to view the fountain and fish. If you want actual plant recomendations let me know how much shade it gets and I'll have my wife suggest the actual plants and proper names. She is much better at keeping track of names than I am.

 

[carb850]

Thanks for the info. I will be showing him this all-in-one filter. I think something like that will work well for him. Do you recommend that one specifically or do you know of other similar ones?

His pond has about zero shade. I think some potted plants would be idea for him, plug and play. Not getting into specific species yet, are they generally available in this area? Are they pricey to mail order?

 

[brian@sen]

I have no experiance with the all in one filters, that was just the first one I saw that had everything. If you look on the Dr's website under pond filters they have 3 or 4 others like that one, some are cheaper some are more expensive and I'm sure other places would have them as well. For plants most are available locally, we have bought several from Gritts greenhouse, Greens Feed and Seed, and places like Lowes/Home Depot, even Kmart and WalMart will have them but we usually don't buy from them. Since your in the Charleston area go to the Charleston Market and have a look. There are several greenhouses that have stuff set up and if they don't have what your looking for just ask and they can usually get it. If your looking to get some online and have them shipped, it is usually not bad. My wife trades alot of our plants online and just pays shipping. People down south are usually ready to thin their stuff out about the time our pond is ready for tropical type plants and they would much rather trade it to someone than just throw it away. Unfortunately with tropical type plants they won't survive outside in the winter.

 

[carb850]

Yes 2 ponds. The reasons for separating the 2 is:
1) To prevent the invasive plants from spreading and covering your view of the pretty fish.
2) To keep the filtering type plants compacted together. The more the roots are intertwined the more they grow and filter to a point.
3) To keep the fish from eating the roots of the floating filtering plants.
4) To allow for a water fall.
You can still have plants in the main pond for shade like water lillies but the plants need to be potted and have big gravel on top of the dirt to keep the fish from up rooting the plants. Most fish will root in the pots like pigs and destroy your plants but decent size gravel helps alot. We only change the fiber fill as needed but usually it's about once a month or so. No surface skimmer, the waterfall keeps the surface agitated enough to prevent a film on the surface and the fish take care of anything living on the surface. My pond has a 3 inch drain in the bottom to allow me to clean the muck stuff off of the bottom of the main pond but I usually only do that twice a year.

I just noticed the highlighted section. How do you drain the bottom? Is this on the higher pond and the bottom is elevated above ground or are you some how draining the lower pond? Isn't it below grade?

My friends setup has no such drain in the bottom. Will he likely get muck collecting adn if so how should he expect to clean it?


I'm now researching some DIY external filters. Mainly because I think it might be easier for him to keep the filter changed. I worry with the submerged all-in-one that he may never think to keep the mechanical filters cleaned. Even when he does it might be a pain because it looks like your completely removing the unit every time.

 

[brian@sen]

I live on top of a hill and the yard slopes down from my pond on one side. So I dug my pond, dug a ditch from the lowest point in the bottom pond with a slope of about 2' in 10' and put the drain line in and back filled, placed the liner in, and then sealed the liner to the drain line. It took alot of planning before the pond was started but was well worth it. He will get muck in the bottom but cleaning it will depend on how often/much he feeds his fish. If he doesn't feed alot maintenance will be easier. As for the actual cleaning part they make pond vacuums that attach to outdoor hose bibs or faucets and pulls the muck out. One brand I have used in the past is Python. http://www.kingofponds.com/product_info.php/products_id/674 For smaller ponds these work pretty good but on one my size it takes forever. I usually only do this kind of stuff 2 times a year but having all of my plants helps. Most of the pumps I have used only need cleaned when the fountain starts to drop off, so 2 or 3 times per season. But cleaning them is usually easy. Yeah you do have to pull them out to clean them but with an all-in-one it is 1 piece and you only have to worry about the power cord. I have a string attached to my pump that allows me to pull the pump out without getting in the water. With external filters unless you put the pump in the filter and re prime it everytime you do maintenance you still have to pull it to clean it so it doesn't save any time or effort.

 

[carb850]

Ah, I see how your drain works now. That would be a good bit easier. Unfortunately for him, that isn't really in the cards so he will have to plan on some vacuum device for the occassionaly cleaning.

With the DIY filter, I was thinking more about cleaning the filter media (filter floss/foam/other). That is done more than a couple times a year, right? I thought being able to pull out foam blocks or what mediea to replace or wash out would be a lot easier then pulling it all from the pond. To feed the DIY filter, it would be with a submerged pumps so he wouldn't have to fool with pump priming.

 

[brian@sen]

I thought being able to pull out foam blocks or what mediea to replace or wash out would be a lot easier then pulling it all from the pond. To feed the DIY filter, it would be with a submerged pumps so he wouldn't have to fool with pump priming.

Pulling the foam blocks from a container would be easy but from my experiance the pump will more than likely need to be cleaned almost as often. Obviously if you go with a pump that will handle some solids you will be able to clean the floss more than the pump but these pumps are pretty expensive. This is the pump I have in my pond http://www.lagunaponds.com/lagunaeng/maxflopumps/maxflo4200.php?link=141 and I clean it every other time I change the floss in the bucket. It doesn't have to be done at that interval but the less it works to pump the water the longer it will last.

 

[carb850]

I didn't realize the pumps would need such frequently cleaning... that's good to know.

I been studing this guys design.
http://drdaveskoi.tripod.com/html/doc_bio_filter.html

Looks like he is feedign from the bottom and just using the neeting for biological filtration? I assume you replace that neeting on occassion and lose all the biological every time?


I also was looking at some designs were you use a storage tote. They are putting like a filter floss on top and having the water run through it for a mechanical filter, but then using like bioballs under it. I haven't figured out if they are keeping the bioballs submerged or in a trickle type system.

 

[brian@sen]

On my pond I use the floss more as a large sediment filter like a filter sock than a biological filter but it will depend on the setup. My floss is only in the bucket for about a month so not really long enough for good bacteria to form, however I keep rocks in the bottom of the bucket that act kinda like bioballs. The rocks in the bucket stay submerged even when the pump is off. That was not the original purose or design for the rocks but ended up being a nice bonus. To start with we added the rocks to keep the floss from clogging the holes in the bottom of the bucket. We use pillow batting as our filter floss and it is really difficult to clean so we just replace it as needed but if you use a more course media like the netting in your link it would be easier to clean and re use. My pond is more of a planted freshwater tank with fish than a fishtank with a few plants so my filtration needs are different.

 

[carb850]

We did some rough estimates and his pond is about 425G.

What I'm thinking about is getting a smallish storage tote (~30g). Build a pvc rack in it with a spray bar coming in the top. The water will be distributed over a polyfill type substance for mechanical filtration (he would change this regularly). Under the polyfill, put in bioballs for the water to trickle through. The water level would be only about 4" of the bottom keeping the bioballs non-submerged (this is necessary right). Then a drain would be in the lower part of the opposite side leaving room to put in bags of chemical filtering material if required. Also, I thought if he would want to add a UV filter later it could be put inline of the feed line to this filter box. If the pump we select flows too much, it could just be split with a smaller portion being fed through the UV filter.

Rocks would be added to the bottom of the pond for further bacterial filtation. Some plants would be added but mainly for shade.

See any issues with this setup?

 

[brian@sen]

No issues that I can see.

 

[coralreefer]

Mike,
That setup sounds fine.
I haven't posted in this thread because Brian knows way more about ponds than I do. Heck he can grow a Burmese Mountain Dog in his planted one.

We have two ponds ~150-200 gallon water fall and a ~400 gallon goldfish pond. Both have been running 15 years.

Like Brian I have nothing but sediment filters used to protect the pumps. The waterfall's pump is enclosed in a skimmer basket from a pool lined in a mesh filter from a wet/dry vac...diy at it's finest :lol:
The pond has a large block of foam enclosing the intake. Whenever the flow slows down we pull the pump up rinse the filter out and it's good to go. The main pond does have a rock bottom and a good amount of plants. During the summer I aim for ~75% shading from floating plants.
The first 2-3 years the pond would get an algae bloom in the spring until the plants started to grow and provide shade but as it's gotten more established I haven't had a bloom in years. The main pond is pretty much full sun the waterfall gets more natural shade.

 

[carb850]

Would the bioball/trickle/tote type system I mentioned above be adding unnecessary complexity?

The year he bought the house he had green water bad and that is his major concern is keeping the water clear. I know goldfish can be messy so I thought a biological filter would be useful but now I'm beginning to wonder.