Los' 360 reef CAD plans and setup

Seriously...I think you could make a living from your sketch-up skills...

Your overflow box has three drains. One is clearly an emergency, so are both the other two going to have gate valves? Assuming this is a Herbie overflow, I don't think you need the two shorterstandpipes inside the overflow box. That just increases the chance that the Herbie will gulp air (which would make unnecessary noise)
 
Wow....your sketch skills is :eek2: I only wish I can do that!! I tried using it but no success and ended up using Excel for my drawings :(
 
"ok, carlos....you are insane..i love you man cant wait to see this tank at our next visit"
-Thanks Rick. I look forward to that visit!

"Seriously...I think you could make a living from your sketch-up skills... Your overflow box has three drains. One is clearly an emergency, so are both the other two going to have gate valves? Assuming this is a Herbie overflow, I don't think you need the two shorterstandpipes inside the overflow box. That just increases the chance that the Herbie will gulp air (which would make unnecessary noise)"

-Thanks Untamed. Yes, I am planning on creating a Herbie overflow. Nice observation. For those unfamiliar, it is the best way (afaik) to get a quiet overflow and sump. Dursos are great for silencing the overflow, but the Herbie overflow appears to be the best way to silence the whole system. Here's a link to the thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=344892

You are correct that the 2" Internal Diameter (ID) pipe is the emergency overflow. That should be able to handle the entire volume on it's own. Because I have only 23 laminar inches, I'm estimating I'll just barely be able to accommodate the approx. 2,500 coming back from the Dart return pump. That's pushing it for a 2" ID pipe, but it should be OK. Normally, however, that pipe shouldn't be used at all. Instead, the two 1.5" ID pipes will be controlled by ball valves and I know I'll have to choke them back to keep them from sucking air. I may choke one down to about 800 gph and use that to feed my protein skimmer. The other will then be tasked with 1,700 gph - which is a bit more than the recommended 1,300. However, since there will be a backup and since this one will be sucking only water and no air - I think it will be just fine. If not, I'll open up the first pipe more and have it go straight to the sump as well.

"Wow....your sketch skills is I only wish I can do that!! I tried using it but no success and ended up using Excel for my drawings "

-Very kind of you, Ed. It's actually not too hard once you get the hang of it. I took a short tutorial from an aquarium article and then I just played around with it. After an hour or so, you can start creating things pretty quick. If you do want to create aquariums using Sketchup, I HIGHLY recommend checking out the links I gave before. You can plagiarize a bunch of plumbing components from that site. It makes the process much easier. I'd also be happy to send you the SKB file for my tank. You could then cut and paste any components you liked. The file is pushing 9mb, though, so it would be best if there was a URL I could upload it to. If anyone wants it, just tell me where to send it and I'd be happy to do so. I also have another SKB file with all the plumbing components pasted at pretty much every possible angle, so you just have to copy and paste them wherever you want.

BTW, there is a lot of value in creating 3D models. It allowed me to easily check whether I could fit everything behind the sump and to see if I could access everything given the different designs. It also made it really easy to communicate what I wanted with the folks actually cutting the tank.

BTW, if anyone knows of a used high-end skimmer (non-beckett) like an ATB Large or Internal Bubble King 300, please shoot me a note.

Cheers,

Los
 
Lighting

Derek at Miracles is building the sump, so I'm moving on to designing the rest of the equipment. I'm particularly struggling with lighting. I want to keep SPS primarily. The choices as I see it are:

Metal Halide 250w or 400w + T5 or CF Florescence Actinics; or
LED I series from Solaris

Metal Halides:
Remember, this is for a 96x36x25. Some of the best tanks I've seen, including the current Tank of The Month (MakoJ), use 400 watt metal halides. Because the tank is 36" wide, I was thinking 4 x 400w bulbs using LumenArc IIIs would do a great job of covering the tank. On the other hand, if I can get away with 250w bulbs, I'd have a heck of a lot less juice being used AND I'd save on chilling as well. If I go with a 250w fixture, I'll save about $240/year in electricity for the 4 bulbs and another $240/year in chiller electricity = $480 per year. That's significant. This brings me to questions #1 and #2:

1. For a 25" high tank, are 250 watt MH on LumenArc IIIs going to be strong enough for all types of SPS or is will 400 watt MH be better?
2. There are some really inexpensive fixtures on ebay from China. For example:
http://cgi.ebay.com/72-1134W-Metal-...ryZ46314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
These guys are selling a 48" and 72" fixtures. I could get 2 x 48" or a 72" plus a single MH fixture. Anyway, they are very cheap. The 72" has 3 x 250w DE MH + 4 x 96w CF +8 moonlights. The whole fixture, with bulbs, ballast, fans, etc is only $589 delivered. Are these any good?

LEDs
The next consideration is whether to go with LEDs. The new Series I Solaris fixtures supposedly are as good as 400w 15k bulbs. Now, I'm not sure about that comparison, but I do believe they are getting pretty good. There are some huge advantages here. If I go with LEDs, I can save on electricity and on chilling costs; possibly avoiding a chiller entirely. I'd also save on bulb replacement. My biggest concern is that the technology is improving by about 35% per year - which mostly manifests itself in the form of higher efficiencies and therefore stronger lights. That's HUGE. This brings me to questions 3, 4, and 5:
3. Are these LED fixtures really capable of handling all types of SPS corals? I'd love some links to some tanks, if you have them.
4. Will an LED fixture adequately cover a 36" wide tank or is that not a good fit?
5. Because of the rapid improvements, would I be better off buying a relatively cheaper MH fixture for now and then swapping that out for an LED fixture a few years from now when they are twice as good as they are now? This is where I'm leaning for now.

Thanks in advance. I numbered the questions, so folks can answer or debate them separately.

Cheers,

Los
 
Los,

While I claim no experience in this, I have dreamed of a tank very much like yours. As far as what I was thinking about for lighting, I was thinking that four lumenarcs would spread the light nicely. Aiming for a happy medium, I was considering (2) 250W bulbs, one on each end, and (2) 400W bulbs in the center two LA3s. This would put the bulk of the light loving corals center stage on the tank. Next, I was going to supplement using T5 bulbs simply because the reflectors project more light into the tank then PC would.

I wouldn't trust anything off ebay. I would buy from reputable dealers/companies and do it myself. IceCap ballasts have a great reputation and the one I have has worked great.

For the price of an LED fixture for that size tank, you can get everything you need for the MH/T5 combo and probably replacement bulbs and ballasts.

Oh, and since I live about 30 minutes south, let me know if I may be of assistance on this. I would love to see it all come together.

RocketEngineer.
 
A rocket scientist offering to help... Absolutely! I live in Salisbury, MD. Any time you are driving past the area, I'd welcome you to stop by and visit. I have a small 90 set up now, but the 360 should be here April 8th.
I really like your suggestion on the lighting. I'm in the middle of the LED thread Nick recommended (above) and I haven't been convinced yet to go with LED. The 250/400 sounds like a really good compromise.
BTW, when the time comes to build your dream tank, I highly recommend talking with Derek at Miracles for the tank and Nick and Dr. Mac (Pacific East Aquaculture) for design and livestock. Paul at Oceans Motions is also a huge help on designing your flow. This is a great hobby with a lot of great folks in it.
Thanks and I look forward to meeting you. It will be nice to have some local folks to swap frags and ideas with.
Los
 
Hello RocketEngineer, You are more then welcome to stop by my house as well. If you have not been to Pacific East let me know I will give you a tour. Do you live in P City or are you futher south in VA? Do you work at Wallops Island?
 
This plan is incredible and I too appluad your sketch-up skills, they are MAD!

Anyway, about lights. FWIW, In a 25" SPS tank, go 400s or, IME, you'll upgrade later, but use three 400s in full sized LA IIIs and use 8 to 12 x 54 w T-5 as supplements on the front and back (or in your case other front) I'd be thrilled to have to space to do a project like this!
 
Los,
I am a simple engineer, not a scientist. The reason I came up with that compromise is I planned on having the front and two short sides viewable but the second long side would be against the tank room. I would then have a channel in the middle of the tank with high flow and high light. If you eventually want to upgrade, you would just need to change bulbs and ballasts. A little clever wiring ahead of time and that would be as easy as plugging them in. BTW, Dr. Mac sold me the LR, LS, and the two clowns in my tank. The only LFS I would trust around here.

rlxwcapt,
Yeah, I live on the other side of 13 from the city itself. Thats either a mighty fine guess or you know who I am..... scary. Yeah, I'm an ME for NSROC at WFF. Love my job, can't beat building rockets and being paid to do so.

Bax,
While three LA3s may cover that distance in theory, I don't think the edges of spread would be well covered and you would see shadows between the reflectors. You are right though that you should be able to get ~8 T5 bulbs around the LA3s without too much problem. Good observation on the wattage though.
 
I use two LA minis on my 48" 120 as my LA IIIs are too big and I get plenty of coverage from them. The LA reflectors are awesome. JME
 
Wow. Thanks for Bax and everyone's advice and links. RocketEngineer - I'm planning on setting up a channel in the middle as well, with a TON of flow hitting it. 250 of 400... it's a tough call. I'd hate to have to upgrade down the road, so I may go for 400s right off the bat if 250s can't hack it for the most demanding SPS. Of course, I could have mainly SPS in the middle, where the flow is going to be the most as well.

LED or MH... another tough call. Decisions decisions. Crazy- thanks for the links. I've now got another several hours of reading to do <grin>.

Here is a 2D front view of the sump which Nick designed and Derek at Miracles is making. This 72"x24"x22" beast of a sump is going to weigh 385 lbs for just the glass!
32607carlos_sump_compressed.jpg


I also just picked up an Osmolator from Tunze. Previously I've always had my R/O units plumbed directly to my sump. This time, I may have a 50-100 gallon tank fed by the R/O unit which will then, in turn, feed the sump via the Osmolator. The main advantage I see of doing it this way is that I can then have a large amount of R/O water on hand for any water changes.

Thanks again for all the help,

Los
 
Thanks, Bax. Yeah, I've decided that if I go with individual MH fixtures - I'm definitely going with LumenArc. It's perfect for the 36" width. BTW, want to sell the LA IIIs?

Los
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12178205#post12178205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Los
I also just picked up an Osmolator from Tunze. Previously I've always had my R/O units plumbed directly to my sump. This time, I may have a 50-100 gallon tank fed by the R/O unit which will then, in turn, feed the sump via the Osmolator. The main advantage I see of doing it this way is that I can then have a large amount of R/O water on hand for any water changes.
Click to expand...
True, you'll have plenty of water for water changes, but if the osmolator fails and dumps 100g of RO/DI into your system, that might not be appreciated by its inhabitants. I would recommend that you have a dedicated storage container for RO/DI, and a much smaller reservoir with RO/DI connected to the Osmolator. That way, if the osmolator's pump empties your topoff reservoir (like 20-30 gallons or so?), nothing in the tank will be harmed. I'll also add that osmolators are VERY reliable, and the chance of this problem occuring is quite low, but why take the risk if you don't have to? Just my .02 .

Mike
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12186399#post12186399 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dudester
True, you'll have plenty of water for water changes, but if the osmolator fails and dumps 100g of RO/DI into your system, that might not be appreciated by its inhabitants. I would recommend that you have a dedicated storage container for RO/DI, and a much smaller reservoir with RO/DI connected to the Osmolator. That way, if the osmolator's pump empties your topoff reservoir (like 20-30 gallons or so?), nothing in the tank will be harmed. I'll also add that osmolators are VERY reliable, and the chance of this problem occuring is quite low, but why take the risk if you don't have to? Just my .02 .

Mike
Click to expand...

Another way to gain some safety margin is to ensure that the pump is NOT able to deliver a lot of water QUICKLY. It only has to keep ahead of evaporation, right? So valve the output of the pump WAAAAYYY back so that, at full pump, the delivery of water is only dripping. If the pump were to stick on, it would take days for the water level to start to rise. Time enough that you would notice and the salinity decrease would happen very slowly, not shocking anything.
 
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