Losing Color in Corals

My p04 was at .16 yesterday and my colors are the best they have ever been. I do like to keep them below .1 yet I have not been chasing numbers. In combination with my p04 levels my nitrates are at 7 on Salifert.

Water at below .03 p04 and undetectable nitrates was what the Tank of the month guys had several years ago, but they got away with it because of the better spectrum of halides in my opinion. Led lights are not giving our corals everything they need so feeding them with nutrients has become necessary.

With your numbers I would not suspect water quality?

Things I would suspect are your Flame Angel nipping at corals will stress them out and a video camera will help you catch him in the act. Fish tend to swim back and forth screaming feed me when I am close to tank, but a camera will catch a fish that is stressing coral. I have had tangs and rabit fish start nipping at corals and have to be removed from the tank.

Next I would pull a couple corals and dip them to make sure you do not have a pest, they can be hard to detect and unless you quarantine everything they are easy to get. I have had red bugs and aefw in the past and did not know I had them. Now I quarantine and know better what to look for.

Stability is key and changes can set off a decline, changing salts, changing lighting, bio pellets, different methodology, all these things can stress out a reef and start a decline. Did you make any big changes the last time your tank was looking good?

My first tank back in 2009 thrived, some say begginers luck? I did not test for p04 or nitrates back then. I learned from RC that my water had to be pristine and below .03 to have tank of the month so my experience cost me corals for the next 5 years and I spent thousands on gfo, pellet reactors, and other reef devices to lower my levels. At the same time switching to Led lights compounded the problem.

I now only test for p04 once a month and it has been as high as .18 and my tank is thriving. My nitrates I keep above 5 and do nothing extra unless they get over 25 and then I up my water changes.

I do have to clean my glass every three days, but my corals are looking great and my polyp extension is good and gets better when I clean the glass or add food.

In my experience your p04 is not your issue, and try to think back when your tank was doing better and what you have changed since then? Sometimes education and advice can hurt more than it helps so focus on your past success for a good starting point?

Good luck!
 
I have always maintained and advocated the need for some phosphate. IIRC 4 years ago when my tanks were tank of the month the PO4 was around 0.05ppm. The fixation on zero phosphate and nitrate arose primarily from interest in so called ultra low nutrient systems and efforts to eliminate nuisance algae given the studies on phosphate limitation for phytoplankton . Some algae are more oligotrophic and do fine in low nuteint water ,btw. The ulta low nutrient systems can work but require a strip it down and put it back approach employing an array of costly supplements and controls on growth rates . Pastel corals are appealing to some and they enjoy these systems which is fine if they are well managed.

There are many situations reported where paling occurs due to a phosphate deficiency. Hence my caveat in post #33. Pursuing zero phosphate and nitrate is a misdirected effort ,IMO. Controlling them to near seawater levels is not.

Living things need phosphate for phosphorlyation,dna, phospholipids ,ATP etc , Excepting cyanobacteria and related diazotrophs which uniquely fix nitrogen, they need fixed nitrogen too.

How much then? It's debateable and varies in different aqauriums .In some cases the nutrie nt defficiencies pla y a role For mine a PO4 level ranging from 0.02 to 0.04 ppm per hanah 713 with NO3 around 0.2ppm per salifert provides an environment where wide variety of corals flourish with minimal nuisance algae .

I haven't used gfo in over 2 years but have been dosing organic carbon for over 6 years to the heavily fed sps dominant sytem ( 6 tanks) . Several lighing schemes are used including halide , vho actinic and led lighting
 
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I measured PO4 today and it read .13 and .18 on my Hanna. So it has gone up, with me feeding my normal amount for a couple weeks.

I wanted to make sure it wasn't the RODI water, I had replaced the filters in my 5 stage BRS system. Now they give you two 1 micron carbon filters instead of a 5 and .6. I talked to someone from BRS and they confirmed that is the standard now.

The RODI water tested at .09 on my hanna PO4 when I first did it. I tested again, washing the tube out with the RODI water and it read .03. I tested my fresh batch of salt water for my water change and it read .03 as well.

I understand that increased PO4 levels doesn't necessarily mean that is what is causing my corals to pale. I looked back at my logs and my PO4 was .12 at one point, but went back down to .06 the next. Probably a bad reading, but it let me think about other things that could cause the issue.

I'd still like to get my PO4 down. It has been over .1 for 4 weeks now and a lot of my corals are showing signs...montis, acros, etc. Some still look good. My ultra gold maxima clam is fully open, my torch is the longest polyps I've seen. But overall most corals show distress. I'd like to get my PO4 down to see if they respond as my first test.

I assume I should try GFO. Reducing feeding didn't show any effects, although it has only been a couple weeks. I had less algae on the sand bed and glass this week for the water change.

Should I give it a couple more weeks to see if the good overtakes the bad, or should I put a small amount of GFO online using my TLF reactor? And if so, how much GFO?
 
To each his own.

If I had PO4 readings of .13 to .18, significant declines in color of corals, and all the other issues detailed in your thread, I'd put 1 cup of well rinsed BRS granular GFO in a cheap TLF reactor, run a powerhead at low flow to feed the reactor, and observe/test daily to see results.

If you don't like results, reduce/remove GFO and carry on.

Regards,

Mike
 
I'd try a small amount of gfo to get the PO4 under .05ppm in your case. Note: I edited post #42. I had typed 0.5ppm in error ; meant .05ppm.
 
I put 1 cup of GFO in a TLF150 reactor. Rinsed it very well first. I have it running off of my return manifold on a very slow tumble.



I wanted to measure my PO4 after my water change so I did it twice. got .12 the first time and .06 the second. What is up with my hanna? I wash the vials with RODI after use, clean the outside before placing in hanna unit and shake/swirl for 30 seconds after I add the reagent packet. It did say the battery was low, so I replaced it but after I ran the tests unfortunately.

I will measure tomorrow and check the tank for any changes positive or negative. Is 1 cup too much.

One question, once i rinse the GFO out with RODI, should i dump out the RODI that is in the reactor, so its just salt water that gets into it when put in action? I think for each new GFO change, I'll rinse with old tank water before I do a water change.
 
I don't think a few cups of water will throw salinity off with 150 gallons of water volume but the dust and fines rinsed out need to be discarded. I'd rinse it with ro/di ;old tank water will use fom of the binding sites, probably not enough to worry about.
 
I just connect my reactor back up to the pump in sump and direct the reactor output flow to a bucket until clear water is coming through. Depending on how much that is I may have to add some SW back to the sump.
 
Update

Update

Its been about a week with 1 cup of GFO online. I tested my phosphate again and it still read .14. I'm just going to keep it online with regular water changes and feeding. I might increase GFO to 2 cups in about 4-8 weeks if PO4 is staying the same or not dropping enough.

Another thing I noticed is that my right Tunze was not on. I have my pumps programmed where if it is in a FLUSH mode, then one Tunze is spinning with the other off, which lasts for 5 min, so I waited and it never came on. Turned the outlet to ON on the Apex and nothing.

I noticed that there was bubble algae in the grating of the Tunze, a pretty good indicator that it hasnt been pushing water in a while. I also noticed that the cyano on the sand bed was way worse on the right side than the left.

I was able to unplug the power and Tunze adapter from the main connector and plug them back in and it turned on and is spinning like it should.

Hopefully this was a main contributor to the nutrient outbreak...we shall see
 
Noticing some of the corals are turning white at some spots in their base. Is this BTN or just fading of color more than being brown?
 
Noticed the flame angel was nipping at the base of the tricolor valida where it is turning white. Is that because the tissue is loose or is it hungry?
 
Phosphates are showing 0.0 on the hanna. I did two tests with display tank water and they both showed 0.0. To make sure, I tested the frag tank water, which I know has phosphates and it showed .12

So, phosphates are low, should I increase feeding and keep GFO online to bring the colors, PE back?
 
Did you get rid of the cyano?

I have not done the ChemiClean, but I do see the cyano minimizing. I have never done ChemiClean, so I am a little apprehensive. I know it will improve my tank, but could it make it worse if I dont use it right?

I physically removed all the cyano on the sand bed with the latest water change.
 
Since my Po4 is zero, should I still run GFO? Or feed more with GFO online. I have frozen plankton that is a smaller food size than mysis shrimp or brine shrimp. Would that help the corals since nutrients are so low?
 
Should I turn off GFO once my P04 gets to zero and stays there? I think my digitata needs more nutrients. Or feed more and leave GFO online?
 
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