Losing Color in Corals

[jharding08]

Stats on current display tank:

120 gallons (4'x2'x2')
Mixed reef



40 gallon Sump
AquaMAxx AM250 Skimmer
3 filter socks


Fish:
Sailfin Tang
Foxface Rabbitfish
Yellow Eye Kole Tang
Misbar Ocellaris Clownfish
Flame Angel
Leopard Wrasse
Blue Chromis (3)
Mandarin Dragonet

Inverts
Serpent Star (2)
Nassarius snails
Trochus snails
Hermits

35 Gallon Frag Tank (3'x12"x12")
Mixed Frags
Fish:
ORA Black and White Ocellaris (x2)

Feeding
Morning - Display -1 cube mysis shrimp (drained in net), Frag small baster of mysis shrimp
Evening - Display - 1 cube Spirulina Brine Shrimp (Drained in net), no Frag feeding
2"x4" piece of seaweed fed on clip on Mon, Wed, Fri

Parameters
Calcium 400-450
Alk - 7-8 DKH
Mag 1500
NO3 - 0
PO4 - .04

History
Display tank has been up and running since Feb 2014. I have done weekly 20 gallon water changes using Coral Pro salt since that time. I have always fed like detailed above. I vacuum the sand with every water change

I have slowly increased the coral population in the display, but the fish population has always been about the same. The kole tang is somewhat new, but I lost two anthias about 3 months ago

Issue
About a month ago, I thought my sailfin tang and foxface were looking a little thin and figured with my increased coral count in the display, I could increase the feeding. I started doing a mysis and a spirulina cube at the morning and night feedings. This lasted about a couple weeks and then I started seeing some of my encrusting monitopora (Superman, Undata) losing their color. I tested the water before the water change and the PO4 was up to .12





I went back to 1 cube per feeding and turned the skimmer up a little bit.

I was at the LFS two weekends ago and got a GOLD Ultra maxima clam and a diamond watchman goby. The clam was opening up almost immediately and not getting any harrassment from the flame angel or tangs. The goby immediately went to hide and I havent seen him since. It is the 3rd time I have tried a goby (had one as one of my first 4 fish in my tank before I moved 2 years ago)

Last week, I was away over the weekend so I had to turn on my Apex autofeeder that uses pellets. It ran twice a day dispensing pellets at one of the lowest settings. The frag tank with the B&W ocellaris was not fed during that time

When I got back, the superman and undata almost all but lost their green color. My Spongodes is losing its green color and my tri color valida (large colony top left rock structure) started to brown out in the middle. My sunset monitora (large colony right rock structure) used to have long polyp extension, now they are barely out.

I see alot of color fading and reduced polyp extension in other SPS (aussie green acro, strawberry shortcake) while others like acans and euphyllia are looking the same.

I havent tested the water since I have been back (got back on Tuesday). I am going to do a water change, maybe a larger one this weekend. I am guessing the PO4 is still rising from the pellets used by the autofeeder and the lack of a water change.

Also, I am guessing the goby isnt alive anymore. Maybe the serpent stars got to him or are cleaning him up. Could that affect the coral color and polyps?

I'm guessing the water change isnt going to drop my PO4 that much, since it is probably in the rocks, should I use GFO in my 2LF reactor?

I havent had to use GFO or carbon in this tank yet. I used GFO breifly right at the start when the tank first came up and I had a ton of cyano and other algae and it dropped my PO4 too fast and caused alot of invert deaths and coral issues. If I bring it online at a slower pace (how much to start?) should I use it? Or will slowing down the feedings and consistent water changes bring my water back to normal over time

 

[phish guy]

What type of lighting do you have?

 

[phish guy]

I had an issue like this a while ago and I found a few issues. I used to use cheap pellet food and it gave off a lot of phosphates. I changed to new life spectrum and the colors of my fish and coral brightened greatly. I also never used to run gfo and even a phosphate reading of .05 from my Hanna checker, was causing my coral color to lack. I've been running gfo and ever since, coral color is back to normal. I'm not quite sure if 20 gallon weekly changes is too much but I'm a firm believer of not overdoing water changes. I do 20 percent about once a month and sometimes stretch it to every month and a half. I just dose manually to keep my trace elements up.

 

[jharding08]

I'm using two RapidLED Onyx dimmable fixtures. Have been since the tank has been up and running two years ago

 

[jharding08]

I had an issue like this a while ago and I found a few issues. I used to use cheap pellet food and it gave off a lot of phosphates. I changed to new life spectrum and the colors of my fish and coral brightened greatly. I also never used to run gfo and even a phosphate reading of .05 from my Hanna checker, was causing my coral color to lack. I've been running gfo and ever since, coral color is back to normal. I'm not quite sure if 20 gallon weekly changes is too much but I'm a firm believer of not overdoing water changes. I do 20 percent about once a month and sometimes stretch it to every month and a half. I just dose manually to keep my trace elements up.

How much GFO should I start off with if I was to start using it and how often should I change it out. I dont want to do too much

 

[phish guy]

It depends what you buy. Brs sells the high capacity gfo for a little more money as standard gfo, but you don't have to use as much and not change it as frequently. I buy the cheap stuff in bulk and fill up my TLF 150 reactor 1/4 to 1/2 the way up with gfo and change it every 2 to 3 weeks. I usually know when it's due to change when I start seeing more film algae growing on the glass.

 

[jharding08]

It depends what you buy. Brs sells the high capacity gfo for a little more money as standard gfo, but you don't have to use as much and not change it as frequently. I buy the cheap stuff in bulk and fill up my TLF 150 reactor 1/4 to 1/2 the way up with gfo and change it every 2 to 3 weeks. I usually know when it's due to change when I start seeing more film algae growing on the glass.

How often do you clean your glass/do a water change?

Also, why do you think your colors got better with GFO, even though your PO4 was only .05?

 

[phish guy]

I almost never have to use my magnet glass cleaner when the gfo is fresh. I'm really picky with my glass so whenever I see any algae on the front or sides, I do a quick slide of the mag cleaner whenever i see it. I only do 20 percent water changes once every 4 to 6 weeks just to freshen up the tank. A lot of my friends who did biweekly water changes always seemed to have an issue with algae, red slime algae, and corals closing up. Maybe just a coincidence but the hands off approach for me seems to be doing its job. Also, I make sure my ro water is always reading 0

 

[phish guy]

If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember reading on a forum that any reading over .02, people saw issues with algae and color. It's almost impossible to be at 0, but the closer to a 0 reading, the better

 

[jharding08]

If I'm not mistaken, I think I remember reading on a forum that any reading over .02, people saw issues with algae and color. It's almost impossible to be at 0, but the closer to a 0 reading, the better

Ive seen, reading the TOTM posts, that alot of people need non-zero PO4 readings for better color. I guess the nutrients in the water that cause PO4 also help feed the corals.

 

[phish guy]

Yes it's almost impossible to get zero but I keep mine around. 02 and coral looks alot better. Like I said, things may be a coincidence but just sharing my experience

 

[jharding08]

I did a water change on Sunday. About 20 gallons with full sand bed vacuum. I measured the PO4 beforehand, where it was .12 a week ago, with only feeding 1 cube per feeding and heavy skimming, it is now .09 via hanna. I am monitoring the color and polyp extension closely to see if I should bring on GFO. I will only do 1 cup or so to start, as I had issues last time with doing the 1 TBSP per 4 gallons of water that BRS suggests for their regular GFO.

Hopefully I'll see the PO4 continue to decrease and the coral color and polyps start to increase this week.

 

[Tweaked]

First, the zoox algae within coral is brown, so if your nutrients are high, so is the zoox. Getting your po4 and no3 down will help with colors but if you do it too quickly you will stress the coral. On the flip side, many see pale corals when the nutrients are down and need to supplement with aminos, adding more fish, feedings etc. Its a balance, but needs to be done slowly.

 

[jharding08]

First, the zoox algae within coral is brown, so if your nutrients are high, so is the zoox. Getting your po4 and no3 down will help with colors but if you do it too quickly you will stress the coral. On the flip side, many see pale corals when the nutrients are down and need to supplement with aminos, adding more fish, feedings etc. Its a balance, but needs to be done slowly.

I'm currently sitting at .09 PO4 and 0 NO3. I want to see if PO4 continues to go down with feeding less and heavy skimming. I wont do GFO until I see PO4 not going down.

Does this sound like a smart strategy?

Also, is GFO necessary if you want to feed more with the same fish population? The reason I started feeding more was that I thought my Sailfin Tang looked a little thin. I think i want to incorporate frozen reef plankton for my corals eventually

 

[jharding08]

Can I place the blame of my corals all degrading on high PO4? Is .09 that high? Could it be a dead/dying fish?

The TOTM says they use PO4 of 0.0 -.08.

I cant think of any other reason my corals are losing color. Nothing else has changed.

 

[Reef Frog]

I wasn't experiencing terrible color loss, but was getting some fading. In particular on acans, chalices, some favias & 2 Montis from time to time. I used a multi promged approach to correct things and am getting good results.

I moved some corals lower, mounted some on the vertical & have lowered the T5 intensity and lowered the photo period by an hour per day.

I've fed more, waited a few days, then did my best to capture uneaten food by blowing the rocks & doing mechanical filtration & skimming wet so algae stays under control. But I don't run the filter pads or GFO & sometimes turn the skimmer down or off during the feeding periods. I'll occasionally dose a little amino acid supplement below label instructions.

I'm going to try to do more frequent 10%-15% water changes on the theory that replacing some minor & trace elements more frequently can help, along with controlling disolved organics better.

Before I started this program, my major parameters were not as stable as they could be, because I would sometimes let my 2 part dosing jugs go dry for a day, two or three....and I found magnesium got really low on me - below 1000ppm - which in corrected. So I've corrected that and haven't slacked off since.

So I've done everything I know to do and everything either looks very good or is heading in the right direction. I wish I had the foresight to take before and after photos. The only problem with this multi pronged approach is that I can never be sure which measure(s) had the critical impact. But it's working.

 

[e048]

its your phosphates, try target feeding the coral that will take foods

The cyano can also be to blame, they could be absorbing phosphates, then dying and releasing it back slowly into your system

I had the same problem, my corals were all ugly and brown as soon as po4 dropped below .o2 they brightened up

 

[jharding08]

its your phosphates, try target feeding the coral that will take foods

The cyano can also be to blame, they could be absorbing phosphates, then dying and releasing it back slowly into your system

I had the same problem, my corals were all ugly and brown as soon as po4 dropped below .o2 they brightened up

Thanks! That is what I was hoping. I am going to see what my PO4 looks like this weekend, hopefully it will drop again as it did last week since I lowered my feeding again.

If it isnt dropping by the weekend, I'll throw on a little bit of GFO, maybe a cup

 

[e048]

I used a ton of phosguard and it really made a difference you just got to get rid of it when it's exhausted

 

[Tweaked]

I'm currently sitting at .09 PO4 and 0 NO3. I want to see if PO4 continues to go down with feeding less and heavy skimming. I wont do GFO until I see PO4 not going down.

Does this sound like a smart strategy?

Also, is GFO necessary if you want to feed more with the same fish population? The reason I started feeding more was that I thought my Sailfin Tang looked a little thin. I think i want to incorporate frozen reef plankton for my corals eventually

Sounds like a sound plan to me. Do you feed nori? Its a good way to feed just your tang, and not the entire tank. Again, it's a fine line between low nutrients and over stripping. GL