Lost my Powder Brown

[Fountainhead]

I've posted a few messages here about my Powder Brown. He died today.

Recap:

Bought him locally, and kept him in a Q tank for 4 weeks, the first 3 at hypo. Looked great, ate great, and never showed any signs of illness.

Added him to the display and he showed what looked like Ich within 48 hours. I was luckily able to remove him and treated with CopperSafe in the Q tank for two weeks. During this time I set up a new 55 gallon Q tank with which to treat all the fish from the display. The Powder Brown looked good again, and I moved him first to the 55. On Friday I added the other 5 fish to the 55. I was going to lower the salinity to 1.009 over 3 days or so and keep them all at hypo for 4 weeks. I didn't want to treat them all with copper unless I had to. I was more comfortable trying hypo.

This morning the Powder Brown was completely covered, but this time it looked more like Velvet, or even Brook. Completely covered with a whitish film that was sloughing off and he was breathing heavily. The salinity was still around 1.015 and I decided if it was velvet that I'd better use copper instead of trying hypo. So I treated the 55 with Coppersafe. The Tang looked to be increasingly in distress, so I decided to take a chance with a freshwater dip to try and offer some immediate relief from his symptoms. Matched some ro/di to temp and PH, aerated with an airstone, and finally put the tang in. I pulled him after 5 minutes and put him back in the Q tank, but he never recovered from the shock. He swam sideways and upside down for awhile, bounced around upside down on the bottom, got blown around by the powerhead, and I finally pulled him.

I'm bummed. I'm sure I made mistakes, but I tried. Now the other 5 are in the 55 with copper, which of course I didn't want to do. None have shown any signs of illness. I'll go ahead and continue the copper for 4 weeks or so, then phase out the copper and move them back to the main tank in 6 weeks or so.

One thing I find odd is that the Powder Brown would always seem to be fine until after about two days with the rest of the fish. Could one of them be a carrier of something that the rest have an immunity to? It really looked like brook there at the end, but could brook have already been in the display without infecting the other fish? And if the Tang brought it in, shouldn't it have killed him long ago? I've had him almost 2 months now.

 

[Triggerfish]

Re: Lost my Powder Brown

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8300250#post8300250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fountainhead
kept him in a Q tank for 4 weeks, the first 3 at hypo. Looked great, ate great, and never showed any signs of illness.
Added him to the display and he showed what looked like Ich within 48 hours.

i do not think this was an adequate enough qt process for this fish.
i would have recommended that you would have at the very least observed the fish for an additional month after the pre-treated hypo. maintaining the fish in hypo could simply keep the parasite population very very low and not eradicated. i haven't been able to eradicate the parasite with hypo as once the salinity is raised, signs of its existence appear soon after.
so either the fish still have parasites on it and began to display effects of it soon after the salinity was raised or your main tank is infested or both.

I was luckily able to remove him and treated with CopperSafe in the Q tank for two weeks. The Powder Brown looked good again.
On Friday I added the other 5 fish to the 55.
This morning the Powder Brown was completely covered, but this time it looked more like Velvet, or even Brook.

again, a 2 week treatment without further observation to ensure treatment was successful is not adequate.


I pulled him after 5 minutes and put him back in the Q tank, but he never recovered from the shock.

how did the fish react while in the fw? i have never been able to keep any fish in for that long without it displaying signs of shock in the fw after 1-2m,,except a maroon clown. a 10:1 bath usually is better for very distressed fish

I'll go ahead and continue the copper for 4 weeks or so, then phase out the copper and move them back to the main tank in 6 weeks or so.

you could treat for 3 weeks and then observe for an additional 4 weeks if none have shown any signs of the parasite prior. if anything shows up your looking at observation for at least 6 weeks after the last sign. mind as well go an extra week, allowing main tank to fallow for 8.

Could one of them be a carrier of something that the rest have an immunity to? It really looked like brook there at the end, but could brook have already been in the display without infecting the other fish?

it could be possible for all the fish in your tank to have immunity,,or simply a very low population that goes unnoticed.
i'm not sure there is an immunity to brook,,so i i'm not sure how the tang would have contacted it if it didnt have it already.
could have had a combo of everything, who the heck knows.

 

[Fountainhead]

Re: Re: Lost my Powder Brown

Re: Re: Lost my Powder Brown

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305072#post8305072 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Triggerfish
it could be possible for all the fish in your tank to have immunity,,or simply a very low population that goes unnoticed.
i'm not sure there is an immunity to brook,,so i i'm not sure how the tang would have contacted it if it didnt have it already.
could have had a combo of everything, who the heck knows.

The reason I asked is that the older clownfish in my tank was one of a pair that I obtained over two years ago (my first fish) and one of the pair died of Brook. I immediately treated this one with formalin dips, and he never showed symptoms. I eventually added another clown a couple of years ago. So I know that Brook was in the display at one time, though no other fish has ever displayed symptoms.

On a bummer note, the second of the clowns was dead this morning in the Q tank. He looked and acted fine yesterday so whatever did him in acted quickly. They're in copper but I don't know that copper is effective against brook, if that's what it is. The other 4 (the older clown, a pink-spotted goby, a flame angel, and a yellow tang) still seem OK.

 

[Triggerfish]

i'm not too educated on brook,,however did deal with it once and it was pretty bad.. i'm not sure how the disease maintains itself in the water column..it seems rare enough that i'm not going to spend any real time researching it.

sorry to hear about the clown..any signs of anything?

 

[Fountainhead]

There were no visible signs of anything on the clown. He ate fine yesterday. I tested the water and there was no detectable ammonia in the tank. (I had two established filters when I set it up.)

I'm now obviously concerned about the rest of them, though they look OK and ate today. (Of course, so did the clown yesterday.) I'd moved them to Q as a precaution and to let the main tank go fallow. I can't help but believe that he'd still be alive in the main tank. If it's brook, I'm afraid I'm going to be hosed. The only thing I've heard that is effective against brook is formalin, and I'm not sure how well these guys would tolerate formalin baths along with being in copper. I'm afraid I'd end up killing them.

 

[Triggerfish]

no signs of aggression in the qt, eh.
i wouldn't treat them for brook without a proper diagnosis first.
just keep water up..plently of hiding places..ensure ph is stable.

 

[Fountainhead]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305614#post8305614 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Triggerfish
no signs of aggression in the qt, eh.
i wouldn't treat them for brook without a proper diagnosis first.
just keep water up..plently of hiding places..ensure ph is stable.

No signs of agression. Outside of the goby (who keeps to himself at the bottom) the others have been together for nearly two years, though obviously not in this Q tank. But it's a 55 and there is plenty of room. There are 4 seperate PVC pieces in there for hiding. I've seen no evidence of aggressive behavior. The Powder Brown went in this tank on Thursday, and everyone else on Friday.

 

[Fountainhead]

Wanted to add a note about the deceased clown. I found him dead as a doornail about 1 PM today, which was the first time I really looked at the tank after the lights came on at noon. No outward signs of Ich or Brook or Velvet. I just assumed he died sometime overnight.

But around 10 this morning I'd snapped a few photos of the Q tank in order to post to a thread in the Reef Discussion forum. Some guy wanted pictures of quarantine tanks. So I went back and looked at the 4 or 5 shots, and they clearly show both clowns swimming around at both ends of the tank. Only 3 hours before I found him dead. I realize he had to die at some specific point, but I'd think if he was so ill as to be fewer than 3 hours until death he'd be cowering in the corner or something, not up swimming around.

I just find it an odd death.

 

[johnnybravo234]

A similar thing happened to me. I bought a PB and quarantined for a month in hyposalinity. He ate well and was completely clear. After i added him to the display all my fish started showing ich. Fish have not been added to my display in two years nor have my 3 fish shown any signs of parasites in that time. I again removed the PB because he looked a lot worse and I only have a 20g quarantine thinking that I would treat him and then return him to the fish store before I treat my other fish. He is now completely covered with ich and is being treated with hypo and coppersafe. He still eats well however. I second triggerfishes advice on longer quarantine/observation time for new fish. What a p.i.t.a. though.. PB = parasite magnet

 

[Triggerfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8305582#post8305582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fountainhead
There were no visible signs of anything on the clown. I can't help but believe that he'd still be alive in the main tank.

dude,,i feel your pain regaring that.
just lost my blenny..one day appeared fine..next nite..dead
this is after 5 weeks in qt.. and figured it was one of the few times i did not check on the qt in the am..perhaps there may have been distress signs then..i didnt check on him till pm.

this fish was doing awesome in the main tank.. doubled in size in 4 months. never displayed any signs of parasite and no doubt would have been fine in main tank.

i noticed the ph was a bit low..or perhaps too much copper in qt for him to deal with...that sucks...

 

[Fountainhead]

Lost the Yellow tang last night. This morning the other clown, the flame angel, and the goby are all displaying signs of velvet. I fed them and the flame angel ate, but the other two did not. They've been in copper since Sunday and I've added maracyn 2 to ward off any secondary infection. I'm not sure what else to do for them at this point except keep the water qualiy high and keep the right amount of copper in there. Doesn't look good right now.

 

[Triggerfish]

wow ,,that blows..must have come in from the pbt...