lost with my corals
- Thread starter Joe0813
- Start date
CAPT_Dave
New member
So here's my hypothesis. Just a hypothesis because, while I've read a lot of articles and posts on this I'm not going to take the time to find and site them but perhaps someone who really knows can comment. The community should feel free to disagree if you think I'm wrong.
Coral are able to adapt to a wide range of conditions but they do so very slowly. The commonly considered safe range for alkalinity is 8 - 12 dkh. That's a big range but coral die quickly when it spikes. Why? Their metabolism cannot adapt quickly to changing balance points.
You can grow even SPS corals under lights that range in cost from $100 Chinese box lights to $1400 LED sets. (They'll grow better under the higher end lights, of course, but ONLY if you don't fiddle with it all the time). That's why so many people have such success with T5s and halides. You can't change them.
My hypothesis is that while the oceans show wide ranging variation in inter-regional parameters, there is very little variation within a region. Therefore, coral species have evolved to live in many regions but they have not evolved to deal with variation in where they live as individual colonies. So they "set" their metabolism to live with the balance of nutrients, light, pH, temperature, etc. that's in the environment in which they find themselves. It's about the balance. You can change it slowly, like what happens in seasonal change, and their metabolisms will adapt but they can't keep up with rapid changes and the imbalance causes malnutrition and in extreme cases starvation.
Think about how the coral grows. It gets sugar from light through the photosynthesis in its zooxanthellae. The sugar gives its cells energy to combine minerals and elements in the water to make its skeleton and amino acids in food particles to make it's tissue. More light and minerals means more energy and more skeletal growth but if there aren't enough aminos from food their tissue can't keep up. It's all about the ratios. Over time that balance point can change and the coral's cells can adapt but not from one day to the next.
So MurphReef was right when he said your Alk was too high for such low nutrients but only if you intend to keep your nutrients there long term. If you intend to reintroduce fish, then your bio load will rise and with it the nutrients. Now you'll need to raise the alk again. That change will stress your coral. Brian3 suggested reducing light. That will reduce photosynthesis and reduce the need for aminos but may cause an imbalance in other ratios.
Corals get a lot of their aminos from fish poop but not if the fish are pooping in a different tank. Since yours are, I recommend replacing the lost bio load with food but do it slowly. Monitor all your parameters weekly to make sure you don't overdo it feeding. Sudden increase in PO4 or NO3 from decomposing food will also stress them and could upset the nutrient uptake balance you have between coral zooxanthellae and nuisance algae.
Feeding will have the added benefit of revving up your bacterial populations to deal with the sudden increase of reintroducing your fish and may avoid a mini-cycle.
Check out BRS TVs episode on feeding coral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIQmiSIt-gI&list=PLBaMLrfToJywe2mMKDKWoLi1Is-Ro3_xk&index=21&t=0s
You might also watch the episode on chasing NO3 and PO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHMGFEcEm7I&list=PLBaMLrfToJywe2mMKDKWoLi1Is-Ro3_xk&index=13&t=0s
Coral are able to adapt to a wide range of conditions but they do so very slowly. The commonly considered safe range for alkalinity is 8 - 12 dkh. That's a big range but coral die quickly when it spikes. Why? Their metabolism cannot adapt quickly to changing balance points.
You can grow even SPS corals under lights that range in cost from $100 Chinese box lights to $1400 LED sets. (They'll grow better under the higher end lights, of course, but ONLY if you don't fiddle with it all the time). That's why so many people have such success with T5s and halides. You can't change them.
My hypothesis is that while the oceans show wide ranging variation in inter-regional parameters, there is very little variation within a region. Therefore, coral species have evolved to live in many regions but they have not evolved to deal with variation in where they live as individual colonies. So they "set" their metabolism to live with the balance of nutrients, light, pH, temperature, etc. that's in the environment in which they find themselves. It's about the balance. You can change it slowly, like what happens in seasonal change, and their metabolisms will adapt but they can't keep up with rapid changes and the imbalance causes malnutrition and in extreme cases starvation.
Think about how the coral grows. It gets sugar from light through the photosynthesis in its zooxanthellae. The sugar gives its cells energy to combine minerals and elements in the water to make its skeleton and amino acids in food particles to make it's tissue. More light and minerals means more energy and more skeletal growth but if there aren't enough aminos from food their tissue can't keep up. It's all about the ratios. Over time that balance point can change and the coral's cells can adapt but not from one day to the next.
So MurphReef was right when he said your Alk was too high for such low nutrients but only if you intend to keep your nutrients there long term. If you intend to reintroduce fish, then your bio load will rise and with it the nutrients. Now you'll need to raise the alk again. That change will stress your coral. Brian3 suggested reducing light. That will reduce photosynthesis and reduce the need for aminos but may cause an imbalance in other ratios.
Corals get a lot of their aminos from fish poop but not if the fish are pooping in a different tank. Since yours are, I recommend replacing the lost bio load with food but do it slowly. Monitor all your parameters weekly to make sure you don't overdo it feeding. Sudden increase in PO4 or NO3 from decomposing food will also stress them and could upset the nutrient uptake balance you have between coral zooxanthellae and nuisance algae.
Feeding will have the added benefit of revving up your bacterial populations to deal with the sudden increase of reintroducing your fish and may avoid a mini-cycle.
Check out BRS TVs episode on feeding coral:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIQmiSIt-gI&list=PLBaMLrfToJywe2mMKDKWoLi1Is-Ro3_xk&index=21&t=0s
You might also watch the episode on chasing NO3 and PO4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHMGFEcEm7I&list=PLBaMLrfToJywe2mMKDKWoLi1Is-Ro3_xk&index=13&t=0s
CAPT_Dave
New member
One other thought. Do you have a cleanup crew? Have they found enough to eat since the tank has been fallow? If not, I recommend getting some before fish go in and remember, they have to eat, too.
I am particularly partial to Trocus snails. They can right themselves if they fall off the glass or rocks and will breed in your tank. I put in 5 about a year ago and am up to 14.
I am particularly partial to Trocus snails. They can right themselves if they fall off the glass or rocks and will breed in your tank. I put in 5 about a year ago and am up to 14.
Joe0813
Active member
what you're saying definitely makes sense but I really think its the alk being to high with my nutrients at zero. I could be wrong though im not an expert by any means and what you're saying could definitely be a possibility. I do have a small clean up crew as of right now. I figured once I start putting the fish back in ill get some more cerith snails and some more trocus
CAPT_Dave
New member
Sorry, just coming back to this. The problem IS alk being too high with nutrients at zero. The solution is to feed the coral so nutrients aren't zero.
Coral cannot live on light and calcium alone. Like all living things, they need food. Even plants take up nutrients from the soil. People think coral don't need to be fed because in a stocked tank with lots of fish the coral usually get enough food without squirting them with Reef Chili. Fish have pretty inefficient digestive systems so even fish poop is nutritious to coral. But with no fish and no poop and you not feeding, there is no aminos and other nutrients that can only come from food with which to make protean based tissue to cover their skeletons and make polyps, whose purpose is to catch food and eat it. Corals are predators. Its the Zooxanthellae hosted in their flesh that are plants.
I suppose you can stop skeletal growth by dropping Alk to compensate but it seems better to me to maintain a proper nutrient balance so the coral can grow, rather than just die more slowly.
Coral cannot live on light and calcium alone. Like all living things, they need food. Even plants take up nutrients from the soil. People think coral don't need to be fed because in a stocked tank with lots of fish the coral usually get enough food without squirting them with Reef Chili. Fish have pretty inefficient digestive systems so even fish poop is nutritious to coral. But with no fish and no poop and you not feeding, there is no aminos and other nutrients that can only come from food with which to make protean based tissue to cover their skeletons and make polyps, whose purpose is to catch food and eat it. Corals are predators. Its the Zooxanthellae hosted in their flesh that are plants.
I suppose you can stop skeletal growth by dropping Alk to compensate but it seems better to me to maintain a proper nutrient balance so the coral can grow, rather than just die more slowly.
