Lots of receeding LPS. Need help.

[Jacob D]

I have been losing acans, echinophyllias, lithophyllons, cyphastreas, a candy cane, and a frogspawn. I also lost a couple SPS and have some more with STN.

Here is what I have done so far.

I have tested for everything Salifert makes except Strontium, Boron, and Copper. I have tested my ph with a handheld meter (calibrated before test), salinity with refractometer, and double checked my temp.

Temp: 79-81
Ph: 8.2-8.3
S.g. 1.025
Ca: 460 ppm
Alk: 2.9 meq/l
Mg: 1320 ppm
Nitrate: < 10
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia: 0
RO/DI water: .002 TDS (with meter)

I have been using Oceanic salt for over 3 years on this tank. My parameters have not made any big swings. The tank isn't heavily stocked, my EuroReef pulls a cup full every couple of weeks and that's when I do water changes. I run carbon and ROWA 24/7 in a fluidized bed. The only thing I dose is home made 2-part mixed with my top off water. I have been doing this for a long time.

I have a few SPS that are still doing fine and some pulsing xenia, and nephthea all looking good. Usually the xenia is a good indicator of poor water quality and it looks just fine. I'm at my wits end. I'm almost inclined to let nature take it's course at this point. I've either given away or lost at least half of my corals. Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.

 

[John Kelly]

What type of lighting?
How long did you have the corals you've lost?
Over what time period did they die; days or weeks or months?
Any of the ones you gave away die?

 

[Jacob D]

T5 lighting. I have had most of the corals for several years, most of them were grown from frags. I've been slowly losing them over the last couple of months, they are closing up tight and receding. Most of the pieces I have given away were not showing any problems and have all done fine. I gave them away for fear of losing even more nice pieces.

 

[Vamp1975]

I see one thing missing and I bet it's the culprit when losing corals like you are. What's your phosphate (PO4)?

 

[redFishblue]

One thing to double check is your salinity.
I used a calibration fluid and found my refractometer was several points off.
Several of my LPS including lords and echino had not been inflating well the past few monhs before that, but regained their health after bumping up my salinity to the correct level.
Its strange that other people I know keep their tanks at a lower salinity than me but have had no problems. Could be I was low on magnesium or something like that and the added salt over time corrected that imbalance.

 

[MG21]

Check your strontium, I started loosing polyps on acans when my strontium was low. also check your phosphates.

 

[Vamp1975]

While your at it, Magnesium

 

[dendro982]

If you are running skimmer and a frequently changed carbon, it's all what can be done in emergency, plus more water changes.

And - try to change water source: the vending machine could had been readjusted, the tap water could been altered by suppliers for a short time, if own RO water - something in filters? Wild guess, but these corals are quite hardy, and if they are dying... When you see the necrotic tissue, you are removing it, right?
The other thing - some toxic inhabitant could die inside the rocks.

Can you post the photo of the tank?

Other people had troubles, when chocolate foil was found in the sump (then the Toxic Metals remover can help), overdosing trace elements (mistaken for a bottle of Prime, the same cure), the tank's cleaning sponge was dropped into the soapy kitchen sink, hand lotion wasn't removed from the hands.
Could something accumulate in the fluidized bed or in the sand.

Aside the water changes and carbon, as the last measure, you can change your routine with additives and see if there will be some improvement within one week. Other kind of additives, if you are dosing MgSO4 - sulphate could accumulate, other brand of calibrating fluid or double check by usual test kit - my Hanna handheld pH meter was no good after short time of use (bought on sale ). This is still a chance.

I feel your pain.

 

[dendro982]

The other thought: you can make a hospital tank, any vessel you have - from 5g $10 tank to the translucent rubbermaid container, 4-5g too, here is mine:

All the corals (except the birdsnest and elkhorn sps) there restored themselves in a month - 1.5 month.

The salt (IO) was prepared with the tap water, conditioned by Prime (you see? my conditions). Add some LR or biomedia, plus some bacterial culture, Seachem Stability or Big Al's Multi-Purpose Bio-Support, or any other, to help restore the balance of forces. Some macroalgae, HOB power filter with daily changed filter floss (floss roll or bonded floss is good for a filters, that are not supposed be used without own cartridges). Tie the bag of carbon and the bag of Purigen (or Chemipure - anything absorbing nitrogenous wastes) in the flow, macroalgae can help. Heater, the small powerhead, if container is big, desktop lamp with daylight bulb - done.
Feed every second day, change carbon, do partial water changes - corals should look better in a couple of weeks.

Anyway, the cost of this is lower, than the cost of lost corals

 

[Justin74]

Add some LR or biomedia, plus some bacterial culture, Seachem Stability or Big Al's Multi-Purpose Bio-Support, or any other, to help restore the balance of forces

This is not necessary as Jake has a very established system, any alteration in his nitrogen cycle could make a bad situation worse.
I'd also check the phosphates, Rowa and other media is suppose to exhaust within a few days, anything after that will only help with trace levels. Hopefully thats the problem, but sounds like it will be a slow bounce back if indeed the case. Since you've pretty much checked everything you can and it's still a mystery, I feel this warrants a 10-20% water change, not too much more as your harmonic balance may be in question and a large waterchange may prove to stressfull for the remaining coral.

Furthermore, because of it seemingly being a mystery I'd highly suggest throwing in Polyfiber filter for good measure, as to remove toxins or metals that may have unknowingly ended up in the system.

No chance of the Mrs. doing some spring cleaning? like Windex, 409 or anything else that could've gone airborne within the general vicinity?

-Justin

 

[vijaym85]

I think salinity is also a major parameter to be careful of as it can really change your LPS corals apperance. I have seen the difference between hypersalinity and normal salinity and its quite remarkable. Even slightly off seesm to really annoy my corals so check that again to be safe.

 

[JenDub]

When did you buy the last bucket of salt? How many buckets have you gone through since the problems started?

I have seen people run a magnet over the sand/sump looking for dropped screws etc that may have worked themselves out of the stand.

A polyfilter is usually my first choice, it will turn colors based on what is has absorbed from the water.

Good luck

 

[wantsalotta]

How much t-5 light, and how long have you had it?

 

[dendro982]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9357061#post9357061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Justin74
This is not necessary as Jake has a very established system, any alteration in his nitrogen cycle could make a bad situation worse.

I was talking about new, hospital nano-tank. When even such corals are dying - I would try something. But each is on it's own...

 

[Jacob D]

Hey guys thanks for all the suggestions. I'll have to read through at lunch time and respond to all. It's been a busy couple of days...

 

[Bdimas]

As mentioned already it could be your salinity. Remember when Scotts tank crashed he could'nt figure it out and it ended up being low salinity. We can try out my refratometer if you want to double check it.

 

[Jacob D]

Ok replies...

Vamp:
I checked the PO4 of my tank water, level was not detectable. I will give it a try with fresh mixed salt water just for kicks. I posted my Mg test result in my original post.

RedfishBlue:
Will double check calibration on my refractometer.

MG21:
I need to get my hands on a Strontium kit I guess. I have never tested it. What would cause a large swing in strontium levels?

Dendro:
I'm not removing any necrotic tissue. The corals are closing up tight then STN'ing at some point. There is no apparent sloughing off, or brown jelly etc... just white skeleton left behind.

As I mentioned above I don't dose any additives other than 2-part, so really nothing I can change there other than not dosing anything. At this point I don't suspect the 2-part so I'm not changing the routine there.

I don't think I have the time or energy for a hospital tank (truth be told), aside from that most of my corals are well encrusted onto the rocks in my tank anyway, I would have to chop them off.


Justin:
I'm going to give the polyfiber a try. I agree on the water changes, I have been sticking to 10%, no improvement at all though. As I mentioned a second ago no detectable phosphate in the tank, but the ROWA could very well be responsible for that (I believe it lasts several months, or at least have always been under this impression and changed it ~ monthly). My wife has her own tank and knows better than to use cleaning agents around them, so I think it's unlikely that happened, but it seems like *something* got in there because of the sudden changes in tank health. Or something has been building up and finally took its toll.


Jen:
I am taking yours and Justin's advice and will be putting a polyfilter in shortly. As for the salt issue, that was my frist thought, so I grabbed a different bucket awhile back but has not seemed to help. My sump is barebottom and a quick look revealed no loose screws etc..

Wantsalotta:
320+ watts of T5. Have had it over 3 years, bulbs changed yearly.

 

[29special]

in case of bac infest maybe do a melafix dip
one gal tank water 5ml melafix for 3 min.

 

[vessxpress1]

Mothra, Randy in the Reef Chemistry forum has the proper ways to calibrate a refractometer. You can't properly calibrate one by setting it to zero with distilled water.

I used the more precise method Randy offered and went to a pharmacist and had them weigh out the exact amount of Morton's Iodized salt, and water in grams.
He put them in seperate containers so I could mix it and didn't charge me a dime. Randy says, when you use that method, your refractometer has to read 35 ppt.

I have a premium blue refractometer and I ended up having to adjust it down while calibrating with this solution, in order to get it back down to 35 ppt/ 1.0265. This is common.

So now, when I read pure distilled/RO/DI, the blue actually goes down below the zero mark on mine. Meaning, I have to use more salt than I would have been before this calibration, in order to get it back up to 1.026 where I want it. I haven't had any problems.