LR Cooking....Will Prob. regret this.....

And a used powerhead is awsome, so is putting some hose on the intake side of the PH and a filtersock on the out-bound side. Syphon with the hose and the bag collects the junk without getting blow around :)

John
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6438525#post6438525 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CaveManNOhio
When I was going through my issues with annoying algaeââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢s I talked with people in my group and lfs, changed some habits and started doing other things and my problems went away.

What did you change? What did you do?

Add more snails to keep eating the algae but leaving the roots?

Add Phosban as your sole means to deal with phosphates? Mask the problem rather then deal with it?

Feed less? so your fish might starve?

Every question and assumption is dealt with in the "How to Cook LR"



BTW none of my Feather dusters died. I have tons of aphipods and copepods and sponges.
 
I have tried to state my case the best way I know how acronom

What did you change? What did you do?

See reply's to your list. I think you will then see what symbiotic relationship is all about.

Add more snails to keep eating the algae but leaving the roots?
Yes as well as urchins stars and other thing's. That helps control problem algae. So what if the roots are left behind its food source for another day. While providing other nutrients and other benefits that you or I don't under stand.

Add Phosban as your sole means to deal with phosphates? Mask the problem rather then deal with it?
Yes, but not until 12-26-05, tank has been up since 04-30-05. Algae not a problem, problem was already gone. It's more for control. Key word is control. Critters mentioned above dealt with and deal with the natural process of nature. "Symbiotic"

Feed less? so your fish might starve?
Most of my fish have multiple functions so on the off day of feeding I'm sure they are finding plenty to eat since I don't have chia pets or any other annoying algae. ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œSymbiotic"
My fish are also very much in healthy in condition and getting bigger. So I'm guessing it's safe to say they are not starving.

Every question and assumption is dealt with in the "How to Cook LR"
You may think they are. But who or what really makes all the rock cookers they are right and this is the way to go. I think there is some assuming going on, and you know what they say when you "assume".

Other thing's I did increased how often I did water changes. I increased water flow. I got a chiller to help control water temps. Since I feel the warmer the water gets and having the artificial sun over the tank drives up the growth rate. So by controlling temps I'm controlling growth and spread. There it is again that nasty word control. I will soon be adding a bigger and better skimmer to my system in the near future that will then help to control them. Control, Control, Control. Better tank husbandry in general goes hand in hand with control.
Look I don't mean to come across in a SA kind of way. We just see it different ways. I think the very things you are wiping out (or think you are wiping out) serve a purpose, if they didn't they wouldn't be there and Mother Nature wouldn't have provided all the wonderful creatures that she has to CONTROL it. Not kill and wipe out but control.

BTW none of my Feather dusters died. I have tons of aphipods and copepods and sponges.
Glad to hear it.
Think about all the other pour critter's you starved to death. The ones you canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t see, but since you canââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t see them you probably donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t care about them or the possible function they may have served.

Also as I have stated in the past I could see doing it if you got a real good deal on some LR that someone let turn into chia pet's and didn't attempt to control it. I could see wanting to clean it off with the process, but not to wipe it out 100%. (Or shall we say think we're wiping it out.)
When we should be looking at what way's to control vs. wiping out.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6448046#post6448046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by arconom
Add more snails to keep eating the algae but leaving the roots?
fyi Algae doesn't have roots, its not a plant. It can put out root like structures, to hold it in place, it gets its nutrition from the water column, not the substrate.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6448046#post6448046 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by arconom
Every question and assumption is dealt with in the "How to Cook LR"
thats kinda a broad statement, and sounds alot like "stop questioning"

that thread rants rambles and raves for 418 posts as of right now. has anyone organized it into a FAQ to weed out all the meanderings of that colossal thread? I'm not opposed to learning about new techniques, but following that thread and the others like it is frustrating and inefficient.

The more I learn about this hobby, the more I learn how little we know.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6450223#post6450223 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Surf
fyi Algae doesn't have roots, its not a plant. It can put out root like structures, to hold it in place, it gets its nutrition from the water column, not the substrate.

If you saw my old algea problem you would say it had roots:) The root like structures are called hold fasts:)
 
My .02.

I have battled hair algae for almost 3 years. I tried removing the DSB and running BB. I have done water changes, changed salts, changed skimmers, lights, new RO/DI/DI systems, snails, crabs, fish etc.

It came down to getting new LR (Another $800) or try "cooking" which is just keeping the LR in the dark with a heater doing 100% weekly water changes. The though process is to let the bacteria in the LR catch up with breaking down the phosphates.

I totally agree that is the tank is setup correctly and proper husbandry is performed there would be no need for cooking. If you cook the rock and revert to poor husbandry than its a waste of time and this will become a vicious cycle.

I believe my problem that did my tank in was when I went from my 46G tank to the 58G. I transfered all the water/corals/rock but I used a installed a DSB of Southdown. My thoughts are either the DSB was never seeded correctly (just added the rock) or the sand was contaminated. Either way the life on the rocks vanished. No signs of pods/worms/etc. When the 46 was running there were worms everywhere and at night it was a great site to see.

I have been cooking the rock for almost 11 weeks now and the rock does dump out allot of detritus.

I am hoping that this will give me a good foundation to start over.
 
Let me ask this question. How many of you that have resorted to the "cooking" process saw a reduction in the algae's that you are trying to rid? Before you started the cooking process. As I stated in earlier posting's here, I had the same algae's all of you have mentioned and when I made changes to my tank husbandry and introduced some cool critters provided by Mother Nature my problems went away.
So the way I am now seeing it is, if there is no reduction before the cooking process then you are using it as a quick cure to a problem that you are helping to thrive.(Sorry if that statement hurts). So have people in the hobby forgotten that only bad thing's happen fast in this hobby. And yes I know the cooking process is not really quick persay. But it could be veiwed as a quick way to rid something you caused, aided, or created.
So we all do agree that good tank husbandry is the key, but if good tank husbandry is being practiced then your problems should be able to be eliminated in time.
Again I could see doing it if you are getting ready to start a new system and you wanted to make sure your rock was clean before you introduced it(but only to clean out the detritus)or if you got some stuff from some one that wasn't praciting good tank husbandry and let their rocks turn into chia pet's. But outside of that I don't agree with it, it's cool if you do. After all it is your rock and your tank.
 
I didnt have the algea poblems in the first place, my critters kept it under control, now I have the same no algea situation, but i do not use the critters, It just is not growing. That is the difference, I used to add things to keep algea under control (snails, crabs, etc). I never used phosban or any other additives, I try to maintan the tank without that. Now instead of adding things to lower my levels, I feed more to purposely raise them.

I still use snails (6 of them to be exact) and I have a couple of scarlet hermits that have been with me a few years and i enjoy watching them, but I would never want to have to rely on them for algea control. Just because they eat it and it is not visible, still does not help, they just poop it back out and it ends up on the glass (or in your sandbed). Both systems are clean, one just has much more critters and much more poop and I have to watch how much I feed, The other has few critters hardly any poop and I can feed much more.

Again, cooking was not done to solve an issue I was having, it was done because after watching tons of crud fall out of my rocks and piles of snail poop on the glass (and yes, they poop in insanly high amounts for their size, especally the trochus I prefer to keep). I wanted to not have this crud in my system. This is rock that was new, this crud came on the rock, it was not do too bad husbandry. I used a natural process to remove much of the crud (not the critters) in the rock. IMO Phosban and additives are not natural, but neaither is a glass cage ;) .

Cooking is not a "quick cure" extra snails, phosban and dropping your feeding to (visually) suppress a problem is a "quick cure". One system removes the stuff that is feeding the algea, the other just converts it to poop (which is a food for algea) If you do not believe me that it is there, dont clean your sandbed for a few months then stir it up all the way to the bottom, you will get a storm of crud, and this crud is not all sand and critters, a good portion of it is poop and shedding from your uncooked rock.

If you have a choice between rock with extremely minimal detritus or rock that is full of it (and if you dont believe me that is it full of it then blast it with a powerhead, or take a piece out and put it in a clean white bucket full of clean water and blast it). Why not use the one that is cleaner?

If you (and I do not mean anyone specific) removed 80% or most of your snails and just did 10% weekly waterchanges, fed your fish and corals, no additives, phosban, cheato, etc (besides cal, mag, trace minerals for coral etc) would your tank still have no algea growth? This is how I maintain my system (plus skimming) and the rock is bare.

I have yet to add coral to the system, there are just some zoas that survived the cooking and a encrustin monti I kept from an older system, but I can post some pictures of what the rock looks like to give you an idea of how "undead" but alge free the system is. The system is 4 months old, but it is just an equipement upgrade from a 2yr old system, so the rock has looked this way for quite some time.

--John
 
Some quick picks, sorry if they are not so clear. Again the tank is bear and will be for a few more months, but the rock is the issue in this thread so it will help you see it better anyways.

rock2.jpg
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rock1.jpg
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tank2.jpg
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tank1.jpg
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[IMG]
[url]http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/mntl/system1.jpg[/url][/IMG]

system2.jpg
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Hope that worked, never tried posting pics on this site yet. I didnt even clean the glass, you can see on the full tank shot the little haze-e spots on the left pane, this is a week sinse the last cleaning.

--John
 
Hey John,

Very good points. And same as you when I say you I don't mean any body specific. I will give credit where credit is due. Some of the "cookers" do make some valid points. But at the same time is there any thing that say's the algae's are any thing more than annoying to us reefers. I know if not controlled they can choke out some stuff. But like trees and plants are to us, do the algaes provide thing's to the water or their enviorment that are benificial.
I'm not a Marine Biologist by any means, nor to I claim to be an expert in this hobby. I've only been in it for about 8 months now. But in your points you say that they grow due to the detritus that is on the rocks. Then wouldn't that also mean they have a purpose? They are consuming nasty and turning it into a plant(if I dare call them a plant, I know they aren't) It's just not some thing we desire cause it's not pretty. Then turning around and providing food to others.
Our approaches are different, I want some thing that is as close to the real thing as possible. You(no one specific)want a pretty prestien enviorment that only supports what you want to grow. And in either case at this point I don't think any of us can say what is right or wrong. Only time will tell that.
Also I want to thank everyone envolved in this thread for keeping it nice and providing interesting points of view, and fun debates.
My main wish to all, no matter what technique you may choose, is that all of our corals and fish thrive and give us all the chance to see them in their world for many years to come.
Happy Reefing to All
 
"You(no one specific)want a pretty prestien enviorment that only supports what you want to grow"

You can say me specifically, this is exactly what I am trying to do :D

Algea does serve a very important purpose in our tanks, it helps to take care of the unwated nutrients in our systems (this is whay chaeto is so useful). The lack of algea shows a lack of food (unwanted nutrients), the presence of algea or its ability to grow quickly shows that it is being fed. I personally love some planted tanks, it's just that the corals I am going to be keeping grow in areas where the algaes I like are very minimaly present or non-existant. I think that coral you (Ohio) showed a picture of is awsome, sadly I do not think that with this particular tank I would be successful with it, but that coral is also not present in the natural environment that the corals I want to keep are, so I cannot expect it to suddenly change it's preferences just because i want it in my tank (even though from time-to-time I have still tried :D ).

---John
 
Hey John,

See in that point if you are trying to acheive a certain type of tank and grow certian thing's then I can see doing the cooking thing.
Now maybe I haven't read as much as I should have, but I just think it really needs to be stressed that in many cases it just requires good tank husbandry to control these things. I can see many new people seeing it as a cure to their problem, instead of seeing that they may be the problem. Then before they know it all comes back and they get frustraded with the hobby.
Thank you for the complement on the coral. here is another one of my favorites.
86936Brain.JPG
 
Cave,

In my case that I battled the hair algae for almost 3 years. I tried everything.

In the case of loaded LR, do you just throw it away and get new then?

If I was just starting a tank out - I would not cook the rock first. I am doing it as a last resort.

I agree 100% that if bad husbandry is the reason for the algae in the first palce then it WILL come back.
 
Awsome Ohio!!

A friend of mine That I have been working with for awhile just set-up his first tank. Those are the type of corals he is looking to keep, I'll send him to this thread for some eye-candy, he is also dsb/sb. :)

Bad practices can make anything fail. Husbandry is IMO #1 priority over bb/dsb/skim/no-skim etc etc etc.

Rob--Are you currently cooking your rock or staring over or?? I like to hear feedback on experiences and not just chem/biology talk. What happened with your tank? What are you fixing? Have you had any progress? What have you tried?

---John
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6451579#post6451579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rob_Reef_Keeper
My .02.

I have battled hair algae for almost 3 years. I tried removing the DSB and running BB. I have done water changes, changed salts, changed skimmers, lights, new RO/DI/DI systems, snails, crabs, fish etc.

It came down to getting new LR (Another $800) or try "cooking" which is just keeping the LR in the dark with a heater doing 100% weekly water changes. The though process is to let the bacteria in the LR catch up with breaking down the phosphates.

I totally agree that is the tank is setup correctly and proper husbandry is performed there would be no need for cooking. If you cook the rock and revert to poor husbandry than its a waste of time and this will become a vicious cycle.

I believe my problem that did my tank in was when I went from my 46G tank to the 58G. I transfered all the water/corals/rock but I used a installed a DSB of Southdown. My thoughts are either the DSB was never seeded correctly (just added the rock) or the sand was contaminated. Either way the life on the rocks vanished. No signs of pods/worms/etc. When the 46 was running there were worms everywhere and at night it was a great site to see.

I have been cooking the rock for almost 11 weeks now and the rock does dump out allot of detritus.

I am hoping that this will give me a good foundation to start over.
 
Hey Rob,

So it does sound like your problems could have come from bad sand. I mean it would be possible that there could have been some thing in there that could have spread like wild fire once the proper conditions were set for it.
I guess I'm one of the lucky ones that got critters that do what I hired them to do.
 
Anything is possible. Sice I tried removing/chnaging allot in the tank and nothing was affecting the HA. I would scrub the rock and within a week the algae was back.

I had algae growing on my Starboard and on the shell of the clam. Once the LR was pulled out the hair algae was gone off of the clam shell and the starboard within 2 weeks. So right there proves that something with the rock is the fuel for the algae.
 
Well, I skipped a few posts but read most. Most everything everyone is saying is correct. It's amazing how much the rock sheds now that I went barebottom (my tank, I mean... I won't win any awards if I myself went barebottom). I stopped doing 5 gal per week and started doing a gallon a day just to deal with the shedding. I did not cook my rock, because I have stony corals on most rock surfaces, and I was afraid I'd lose most of them.
One thing I haven't heard anyone say, and it's a good reason for cooking the rock in the first place, is Nature abhors a vacuum (abhors = hates for us non literate types). Nature will always seek an equilibrium. The rock, when purchased, if pure and pristine inside and out will slowly absorb minute amounts of impurities such as nitrates, nitrites, and phosphates (among other things), hence the bacteria living within. The rocks, after awhile, if the system isn't exactly pristine, and who's really is?, have absorbed enough phosphates to feed the algae growing on them. If you continue to do water changes, but only 10% a week or something similar, the phosphates will continue to seek equilibrium from the rock to the water. Some will leach out here, some will absorb there. You'll never get rid of it. Cooking the rock, you're allowing the rocks to sit in a sterile new saltwater evironment, and in addition to shedding, the phosphates, nitrates, and nitrites are slowly leaching into the water. Hence the need for a couple of good waterchanges during the procedure. The bacteria will go into a hibernation period for want of a better term until there's more nutrients. I've read alot of the threads, and I understand the need for it. It's not necessary, but it's a really good idea. Cooking is a misnomer. You're not actually cooking anything. It's just a term applied to the process. And, he's right, lots of corals won't grow in such a pristine environment. I've also noticed the red algae, it looks like little tiny capillaries growing over the face of my rock. As my tank gets cleaner, it's getting more prevalent, and my sailfin won't touch it. Also, I'm going to have to move my frogspawn to my 18 gal viaaqua, with 192 watts over it. It's a "dirty" tank I keep just for lps and zoos and xenia. No skimmer, low water changes, and the corals are fantastic!
 
I have a question:

Will rocks continue to shed even after cooking?
Can you Turkey Baste your Cooked rock and still blow off detritus?

The reason I ask is becasue I did not cook my rocks. I cured UNCURED live rock in tank. Its been 3 months and my rock seems to harbor a lot of detritus. I can cloud up my entire tank just blowing off half the tank. Will this come to an end or will rock always be like this?

When you have a full blown SPS tank....do you still blow off the rock periodically or let it be?
 
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