LR instead of bio balls

martinplayer

New member
I've read about the benefits of using LR instead of bioballs in the center chamber of my biocube29. A couple of questions: What is LR rubble? Can I get it at my LFS or do I just smash up some larger chunks of LR. How full do I make it? I would think you need some lighting on the rubble to keep it as LR so it doesn't die.
I also read where some folks put filter floss on top of the LR in the chamber. If this is done, do you keep the tray on top of the LR and put Filterfloss in the tray or right on the LR.

Sorry for so many questions, but so many people say so many things but I trust this site the most.

Thanks
 
I dont have a Biocube, but I have an AquaPod and did kind of the same thing. I removed all the media from the right chamber (the filter pads, ceramic rings and bioballs.) I put 4-5 lbs of live rock rubble back there and a sandwich bag full of chaeto. I put a light over it, I believe its an 18w/6700k bulb, or maybe it was a 5700k bulb? I cant remember exactly. :D The light goes on at night. I bought the rubble & chaeto off ebay, but you should be able to get it from your LFS. Rubble is just small pieces of live rock. I wouldnt use filter floss, as I believe thats just a nitrate factory. If you have any questions, let me know!
 
The smaller the lr pieces, the greater the surface area for bacteria. I have seen people simply place the rock in chamber2, while others place it in a nylon bag first for easy removal. The rock will be "live" without light, just no coralline. You can put the filter floss/pad in either location as long as you clean it frequently, and have no water bypassing it.HTH
 
I am doing that with my 14g biocube and it seems to be working well!
If your LFS has live rock usually the bottom is littered with rubble. See if you can get some of that ! Ask them for a break in price because it is just rubble ! Got mine for 3 bucks a pound. the water in my center chamber only fills half way so i did not need to fill with LR.
 
I have liverock in the second chamber of my bc8 and it seems to work well. The only real advantage to it is having the recommended lr/gal without having to crowd the front. I took the bottom grate out of mine and it comes up about 2/3 of the way. As for breaking it up into really small pieces for more surface area, it doesn't make that big of a deal seeing as the rock is extremely porous and already has a ton of surface area on the inside.
 
yesterday I pulled out the bioballs and replaced with LR. I did fill it up as high as I could. Should I just have enough in their so it stays submerged?
Also- anyone remove the pre-filter in chamber 1?
 
Tsmonrad-you could increase your water level, as the level indicator is only for wet/dry operation. LR out of the water has no benefit. I still use the prefilter in chamber 1, although it clogs up daily. I rinse it daily as well as having a poly filter in chamber2. Since I have the sapphire skimmer in chamber 2, the poly fiter is more like a bubbletrap. I don't have any micro bubbles in the tank that way. HTH
 
in my bio cube 29g, i removed the stock filters

1st cut out the filter ribs and the filter floss ( the filter is junk they clog easly.)

2 go to the fish store and get some filter pad, ask what kind they recomend.

3 and cut to fit. and if u wont to be realy slick, get to filters and glue them to geter to make a double filter,

or u can just put filter floss in the first chamber like i did to get the bigger particles. Just a hand full though or it will restricked the flow and will over flow at the back, like they said replace often. And get Chemi-pure and purigen and put the Chemi pure under the filter floss in the first chamber and put the purgin under the tray in the second chamber. HOPE THAT HELPS!
3fins
 
Ill give it a shot and let you know. Not sure if I am going to add a skimmer- but the Purigen, Chemi-pure etc.. I will try it out.
Thanks for the tuning advice.
 
i just put the LR rubble in my middle chamber and my water seems to have a lot of particles floating in it now (been about two weeks). i also cut the ribs off a stock filter and put filter pads in and change them about every couple days.
any idea why my water has junk floating in it now?
 
IMHO rubble in the rear chambers on a nano only serves as a detritus collector. As with any mechanical filtration, all the small particles passing through just get trapped in the rubble and slowly decay. The problem with rubble is the difficulty in keeping it clean. Filter floss can be tossed, but cleaning rubble is awfully hard, unless someone knows a trick I've never heard of.

I also question the use of rubble for its biological properties. The amount of rubble, relative to the amount of LR in the main chamber, really makes me question its utility. I imagine that filling a large volume in the rear with 20 lb in the display and 5 lb in the back does amount to a significant increase in total rock used, but even 20 lb of LR in a 24g tank should provide sufficient surface area for bacterial colonization to handle waste reduction, while still allowing for better water flow control through it, and an easier surface area to clean unlike rubble. I think its a wash as far as biological waste management as whatever increase in surface colonization for bacteria is well offset by the entrapment of crud, which produces the breakdown waste we want out to begin with. As such, I don't see how rubble is any different from bio balls. Both increase the surface area for nitrifying bacteria, and both trap detritus resulting in increased nitrate formation. While LR is supposed to have more "nooks and crannies" for hypoxic/anoxic environments for denitrifying bacteria, the inability to adequately clean the rubble of junk may trap more biological waste requiring processing than any denitrification process may cycle, defeating the very need for nutrient export from a tank, rather than just nutrient processing. A macro like chaeto is great for nitrogen and phosphorus trapping and export by trimming, and can work well in the rear chambers, especially when lit on a reverse cycle to control swings in pH, but to me, rubble is more trouble than it's worth.

Finally, I think that the idea of creating a "refugium" like environment in the rear chambers becomes an issue, as the flow rate through the chambers is awfully high in comparison to a true refugium. Other than the ability to provide reverse lighting cycles in the rear for use with a macroalgae like chaeto, the rear chambers do not have a slow enough flow rate to allow for proper biological filtering, as well as optimal development of food sources for the display tank's inhabitants. Placing the same macro in the display will give you the same nutrient export as in the rear, although, granted, it may be harder to care for.
 
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