Making sense of my water parameters

[sandalscout]

Okay, so, I have to admit, I'm pretty bad about testing my water. My tank seems happy, everything is growing, I don't have any bad algae issues, etc, etc, so, honestly, I've never really worried that much about it. I never really thought about it that hard, but tonight I decided to test my tank's dKH, Magnesium, and Calcium as well as my water change tubs water in order to match them up. I've never really done that either, and realized that I was probably screwing up at least my Calcium levels when I changed my water....

I got the following results on the aquarium's water:
Calc = 320mg/l
dKH = 12
Mag = 1300mg/l

and the following for my water change tub:
Calc = 340mg/l
dKH = 8
Mag = 1200mg/l

My PH tends to hover right around 8.0-8.1. I'm considering feeding my airline for the skimmer to an outside source and trying to get that up just a tad.

Okay, so, my calc seems low... way low. When I started regularly dosing 2 part about 4 months ago (just before I moved everything to the big tank), I believe I raised my calc to the 430 range and my alk to 11dKH. I recall raising my magnesium to 1300.

Anyway, my magnesium regium seems fine, but I'm a little worried about my dKH versus Calcium dosing. I dose 90ml of Calc and Alk daily. This should put me right in the .75ml/gallon per day range, below the full SPS range that BRS recommends, and my tank is very mixed, softies, LPS and some SPS, but not tons. It SEEMS as if my dosing regimen is about what it needs to be, but my Calc is too low, and my Alk is a bit 2 high.

Any ideas why the two wouldn't be being used at the same rate? Any suggestions for changing my dosing amount? I'm hoping to get 2 dosing pumps very soon (after getting back to the US) and maybe this alone will help, but from what I read ALK is more likely to immediately precipitate out when added to fast, not Calc. I don't think I'm adding it 2 fast, I have a 100ml cup with a hole drilled in the bottom that drips the solution out in about 10 minutes or so.

Thanks for any insight!
Matt

 

[jdieck]

First you need to find a way to double check your calcium readings with another kit or at the LFS. By the looks of it it might only be a testing issue as no salt I know of has such low level unless it is being mixed at a very low salinity.
If you confirm the readings, the only thing you need to do is add more of the Calcium part than the alkalinity part or add only the calcium part until the alkalinity drops to around 10 and the calcium starts increasing. Once within recommended range you can continue adding in equal parts.

 

[andywe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15279218#post15279218 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdieck
First you need to find a way to double check your calcium readings with another kit or at the LFS. By the looks of it it might only be a testing issue as no salt I know of has such low level unless it is being mixed at a very low salinity.
If you confirm the readings, the only thing you need to do is add more of the Calcium part than the alkalinity part or add only the calcium part until the alkalinity drops to around 10 and the calcium starts increasing. Once within recommended range you can continue adding in equal parts.

+1 there....get another kit and double check it. I am assuming your dosing wither BRS 2 part or B-Ionic..adding that much per day and having those levels seems way off.

 

[poolkeeper1]

Do you use I. O. salt and what Is your salinity, I. O. always mixed to about 340 ca when I used that salt. If your running your salanity lower than 1.025 this may be part of the problem alonge with just letting your levels get out of whack by never testing!

 

[mixer911]

Re: Making sense of my water parameters

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15279196#post15279196 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sandalscout

Any ideas why the two wouldn't be being used at the same rate? Any suggestions for changing my dosing amount? I'm hoping to get 2 dosing pumps very soon (after getting back to the US) and maybe this alone will help, but from what I read ALK is more likely to immediately precipitate out when added to fast, not Calc. I don't think I'm adding it 2 fast, I have a 100ml cup with a hole drilled in the bottom that drips the solution out in about 10 minutes or so.

Thanks for any insight!
Matt

Cal and Alk are absorbed differently and at different amounts by different animals. Just Dose more Calcium and less alk. You will have to find your balance of what your tank is using. It can be close to equal amounts sometimes, but there are always times when additional doses will be needed. Just like with a calcium reactor, it just adds 1:1 calc/alk. It is actually a Alk reactor, and calcium is a added bonus of the coral skeletons. Some people still need to dose with calcium or Lime to keep their calcium levels up to demand.

 

[sandalscout]

Cool, thanks for the information. I will get my Calc tested at the LFS today and see what they say. I should have suspected that might be an issue.

I use IO and mix it to 1.025. The "tub" of water is a brand new batch, and it mixed right @ 340 as above. That fact that this seems normal per Bill's math, makes me think my test is good though. I am dosing BRS 2 part Recipe 1.

Rick, if you dose more of one or the other, how should I handle dosing Magnesium then? BRS's instructions call for 20 ounces of Magnesium after a full gallon of both parts. If, for example, I'm dosing 2 to 1, when should the Magnesium be dosed? Or just simply test the water and keep the Magnesium in line @ 1300?

Thanks, I'll let you know the results of the LFS tests.

 

[sandalscout]

AH CRAP, I think I might know part of the reason I have a problem. I am on my 3 gallons of 2 Part, and I mixed up my first 2 gallons at 50% strength. I was using the cups that BRS supplied, which are only 1/2 cup sizes, and the instructions call for "1 level cup" which is actually two of their own cups. I corrected this earlier this month, but never verified the Calc and Alk Levels in the tank before starting the corrected batch. That doesn't explain why my dKH is so high though, does it? Or is it because the Calc is so low that the Alk can't be used?

Thanks!

 

[andywe]

That makes sense!! The only thing I didn;t like was the level due to the amount of Ca you have been dosing..IO is around 340. I use Reef Crystals (IO's reef salt) becasue it is higher in Ca for coral tanks. IO regular is formulated for FOWLR tanks. Not a big deal, but it does mean when you mix water you do not have to add expensive supplements out of the box

The fact that your bulk mix was off makes alot of sense.

As for dosing the BRS 2 part..yopu account as fllows:

1) add calc and alkalinity until you get them squred away..THEN you start dosing equal parts. Once you start dosing equal aprts, it's 20oz of mag for every gallon of 2 part you go through.

Here is the kicker. If you do regular water changes and test your MG, you'll probably find you do not need to add the Mg at all.

 

[mixer911]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281107#post15281107 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sandalscout
when should the Magnesium be dosed? Or just simply test the water and keep the Magnesium in line @ 1300?

You got it! Always just dose what is depleted, so if like andy said the water changes are keeping your Mag up then really no need to dose it at all. If not then just dose what you need to get it to your target # 1300.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281119#post15281119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sandalscout
AH CRAP, I think I might know part of the reason I have a problem. I am on my 3 gallons of 2 Part, and I mixed up my first 2 gallons at 50% strength. I was using the cups that BRS supplied, which are only 1/2 cup sizes, and the instructions call for "1 level cup" which is actually two of their own cups. I corrected this earlier this month, but never verified the Calc and Alk Levels in the tank before starting the corrected batch. That doesn't explain why my dKH is so high though, does it? Or is it because the Calc is so low that the Alk can't be used?

Thanks!

In general terms IO is high in alkalinity and low in calcium, that could be enough to trow your levels out of balance.
If you still have dry calcium chloride, you can adjust the calcium level without the need of using the solution.
Use the Reef Chemistry Calculator to determine how much calcium chloride you need; given the large gap add 1/3 of it every day for three days dissolved in some RO/DI water.

For the future, if using IO, I would suggest you adjust the new water mix parameters before the water change.

Finally you do not need to specifically add a certain ratio of magnesium to the calcium and alkalinity parts. I will suggest testing the magnesium level and add it when necessary. Do the same for matching magnesium in your water mix before a change.

 

[sandalscout]

Thanks guys, I'll bump my Calc up, and I should be good. I was actually attempting to match my water change water to the tank last night when I ran these tests, I'll keep doing so in the future. I'm still sort of confused by why my Alk is over 11 when it is 8 after mixed, but since it's not too high, I'll not sweat it too much. I'll just start testing more regularly and adjusting it as needed some more. Hopefully some Drew's Dosers will help.

Andy, I have some questions regarding the RKL, if you don't mind. I'm thinking about getting the base model and using the 4 ports to control my lights (2 plugs) and heaters (2 more). Am I correct in the fact that the Temp probe will plug into either the RKM-PC4 OR the SL1? I don't really need an SL1, but couldn't quite understand why the SL1 has the temp port on it, unless it's using the same port for the expansion and then moving the temp probe to itself.

Also, if I were to add an addition RKM-PC4 to control more things, is the unit capable of turning on single outlet for one minute multiple times a day (for dosing)? It's a shame, honestly, a 6 plug strip would do everything I'm really looking to do, as I already have an ATO and a feed timer in use. If I was looking to setup another tank soon, I'd just break down and get a RKE and use all of my existing stuff on a new tank, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

 

[andywe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281768#post15281768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sandalscout
Thanks guys, I'll bump my Calc up, and I should be good. I was actually attempting to match my water change water to the tank last night when I ran these tests, I'll keep doing so in the future. I'm still sort of confused by why my Alk is over 11 when it is 8 after mixed, but since it's not too high, I'll not sweat it too much. I'll just start testing more regularly and adjusting it as needed some more. Hopefully some Drew's Dosers will help.

Andy, I have some questions regarding the RKL, if you don't mind. I'm thinking about getting the base model and using the 4 ports to control my lights (2 plugs) and heaters (2 more). Am I correct in the fact that the Temp probe will plug into either the RKM-PC4 OR the SL1? I don't really need an SL1, but couldn't quite understand why the SL1 has the temp port on it, unless it's using the same port for the expansion and then moving the temp probe to itself.

Also, if I were to add an addition RKM-PC4 to control more things, is the unit capable of turning on single outlet for one minute multiple times a day (for dosing)? It's a shame, honestly, a 6 plug strip would do everything I'm really looking to do, as I already have an ATO and a feed timer in use. If I was looking to setup another tank soon, I'd just break down and get a RKE and use all of my existing stuff on a new tank, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Sandal,

first, although Jdieck was thorough in reccomending a calculator to you, you need to use the right one, which for BRS 2 part is this link: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/i6/Calcium-and-Alkalinity-Calculator./information.html

As for the temp on the RKL and the SL1, let me explain:

The RKL comes with a temp probe called an iTemp probe. It has a modular RJ12 connection. this is different than the temp probe that plugs into the SL1.

Now, you can plug the iTemp into any bus port (the RJ12) in the system, and that includes the bus port of an SL1 if you have one.

If you were buying the SL1 jsut for temp, then I say don;t bother..but you will need an SL1 if you want to monitor PH.

Last, if you are going to buy an SL1, then take a look at package 3 (RHL3) bang for buck it is a better deal and gives you an additional PC4.

Let me know if you have more questions.

 

[sandalscout]

Thanks Andy, I've been using the BRS one, so I should be cool there.

Thanks for explaining that. I don't have a need for PH monitoring via the controller, so I'm thinking just the RKL and an extra PC4. I just couldn't figure out why the RKL and the SL1 both came with the temp probe. Makes sense now. Thanks!

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15281930#post15281930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andywe
Sandal,

first, although Jdieck was thorough in reccomending a calculator to you, you need to use the right one, which for BRS 2 part is this link: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/i6/Calcium-and-Alkalinity-Calculator./information.html

You can use either calculator, BRS just changed descriptions for some of the supplements.
Recipe 1 = Randy's Recipe 1
Recipe 2 = Randy's recipe 2
Calcium Chloride Anhydrous = BRS pellet
Calcium Chloride Di-Hydrate = BRS Sugar like
Sodium Carbonate = BRS Soda Ash

All others are the same descriptions.

 

[andywe]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15282082#post15282082 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sandalscout
Thanks Andy, I've been using the BRS one, so I should be cool there.

Thanks for explaining that. I don't have a need for PH monitoring via the controller, so I'm thinking just the RKL and an extra PC4. I just couldn't figure out why the RKL and the SL1 both came with the temp probe. Makes sense now. Thanks!

Anytime. Just give me a shout if you have any more questions. I am awaiting Thursday to get here as I ordred an MLC and 6 LED pods..can't wait to put it up on the 180. If I like it, I'll order another for the 29 and the RKL.

 

[NeveSSL]

hahaha... you finally gave in to the MLC, Andy. I thought they didn't have the wiring you wanted or something like that?

Brandon