mantis~~ Crack Acrylic???
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Gonodactylus
Premium Member
If you are talking about a standard 1 cm thick, 350 L tank, the answer is no. They can dent it and really mess up the surface, but I've never had one, even a 17 cm O. s. crack a plexiglass tank. On the other hand, I frequently have them break through 2 or 3 mm plexi tank dividers.
You know I have ready nearly all of the literature I can find on Mantis Shrimp, and I have ready a lot of your stuff, Gono, but I am still in doubt as to the exact damage that can be caused by a "smasher".
I do not doubt their hit is hard, but I have been watching mine for weeks now and although I have seen him strike many snails (and bash them to pieces), I have also seen him strike the glass on several occasions (my boss was poking his finger at the glass, even when I warned him not to).
There was no damage caused by these bashes and I have just your regular run-of-the-mill 10g glass aquarium.
A few questions:
Do the sometimes hit harder than others? Would they fire a warning shot at the glass with less than full force?
Finally, this might sound stupid, but I was thinking about letting my Onodactylus Scyllarus (Peacock) bash m one, for the sake of understanding and experiencing the full blow. Do you think this is insane or a reasonable thing to do?
Can you think of a better way for me to guage the extend of the damage that can be done by this creature?
Basically, what I'm trying to say is although they CAN get big and nasty, the small ones are probably not as fearsome as all the tales make them out to be. I have seen people (friends of mine) cower in fear of a 1" long smasher ... its comical!.
JJ.
I do not doubt their hit is hard, but I have been watching mine for weeks now and although I have seen him strike many snails (and bash them to pieces), I have also seen him strike the glass on several occasions (my boss was poking his finger at the glass, even when I warned him not to).
There was no damage caused by these bashes and I have just your regular run-of-the-mill 10g glass aquarium.
A few questions:
Do the sometimes hit harder than others? Would they fire a warning shot at the glass with less than full force?
Finally, this might sound stupid, but I was thinking about letting my Onodactylus Scyllarus (Peacock) bash m one, for the sake of understanding and experiencing the full blow. Do you think this is insane or a reasonable thing to do?
Can you think of a better way for me to guage the extend of the damage that can be done by this creature?
Basically, what I'm trying to say is although they CAN get big and nasty, the small ones are probably not as fearsome as all the tales make them out to be. I have seen people (friends of mine) cower in fear of a 1" long smasher ... its comical!.
JJ.
Gonodactylus
Premium Member
A two inch gonodactylid is not going to break aquarium glass. A 4 inch G. chiragra might and a 7 inch O. scyllarus probably could if it landed a direct hit.
We have just submitted a paper for publication where we measured the direct striking forces of O. scyllarus. With luck, that paper will be out in two or three months. The animals can vary the force of the strike and also there is considerable variation depending on where the impact occurs as the propodus swings out. Many times when an animal hits glass, the weapon is not fully extended and the strike is an order of magnitude weaker than if it hits with full extension.
I have been hit hundreds of times by all sizes of stomatopods ranging from Taku (one of the smallest) to Hemisquilla and Lysiosquillina. They all hurt, but I still have all of my fingers. On the other hand, even a small half inch animal can draw blood if it stabs you (they ofen strike with an open dactyl when attacking something soft).
As for letting an O. scyllarus strike you, I would not recommend it. A big one, if it landed a blow with the closed dactyl would probably do little damage - a bone bruise at most. However, it it stabbed you, it would most likely drive the tip into the bone and produce a very nasty wound. If you are unlucky, as I was last year, the dactyl could penetrate a joint and cause even worse damage and a whole lot of pain for many days. But the real danger appears to be infection. I have written several posts about O. scyllarus wounds developing a bacterial infection that is difficult to treat with conventional antibiotics. The best documented case is for a South African surgeon who was stabbed and developed an infection that attacked soft tissues. They cultured the bacteria, but could not find an antibiotic that stopped it and eventually had to amputate. It is not known whether the stomatopod harbored the bacteria or it just happened to get into the wound, but, in my opinion, it is not worth the risk.
Roy
We have just submitted a paper for publication where we measured the direct striking forces of O. scyllarus. With luck, that paper will be out in two or three months. The animals can vary the force of the strike and also there is considerable variation depending on where the impact occurs as the propodus swings out. Many times when an animal hits glass, the weapon is not fully extended and the strike is an order of magnitude weaker than if it hits with full extension.
I have been hit hundreds of times by all sizes of stomatopods ranging from Taku (one of the smallest) to Hemisquilla and Lysiosquillina. They all hurt, but I still have all of my fingers. On the other hand, even a small half inch animal can draw blood if it stabs you (they ofen strike with an open dactyl when attacking something soft).
As for letting an O. scyllarus strike you, I would not recommend it. A big one, if it landed a blow with the closed dactyl would probably do little damage - a bone bruise at most. However, it it stabbed you, it would most likely drive the tip into the bone and produce a very nasty wound. If you are unlucky, as I was last year, the dactyl could penetrate a joint and cause even worse damage and a whole lot of pain for many days. But the real danger appears to be infection. I have written several posts about O. scyllarus wounds developing a bacterial infection that is difficult to treat with conventional antibiotics. The best documented case is for a South African surgeon who was stabbed and developed an infection that attacked soft tissues. They cultured the bacteria, but could not find an antibiotic that stopped it and eventually had to amputate. It is not known whether the stomatopod harbored the bacteria or it just happened to get into the wound, but, in my opinion, it is not worth the risk.
Roy
Thanks Dr. Roy.
That sums it all up in a nutshell. So even smashers have the capability of stabbing? I was under the impression it was one or the other. I did notice just yesterday, during some routine self-cleaning, that Ghengis had a rather long spiny and very evil looking appendage but he was movign rather quicky and I didn't quite notice where it came from.
This must be the "dactyl" you are referring to.
I will NOT let him strike me knowing that a stabbing may result. I thought a bash was all I had to face.
I can't wait to see that paper.
Regards,
JJ.
That sums it all up in a nutshell. So even smashers have the capability of stabbing? I was under the impression it was one or the other. I did notice just yesterday, during some routine self-cleaning, that Ghengis had a rather long spiny and very evil looking appendage but he was movign rather quicky and I didn't quite notice where it came from.
This must be the "dactyl" you are referring to.
I will NOT let him strike me knowing that a stabbing may result. I thought a bash was all I had to face.
I can't wait to see that paper.
Regards,
JJ.
Gonodactylus
Premium Member
Next time your animal molts, pull out the raptorial appendage and take a look at the dactyl, the last segment that has the inflated heel that is used to smash and the barb that is used to stab. It has a long spine and three short barbs on the inner surface. Most gonodactylids don't have barbs, but they all have the shape spine.
I wasn't kidding about even small animals being able to stab. Last week I was handling a new recruite about 11 mm long and it jabbed both dactyls into my finger. I had to pull it out with a pair of forcepts and it actually drew two tiny drops of blood.
By the way, when handling stomatopods, watch the tail as well. Most have a sharp spine on the uropod (outside of the tail fan). They can drive this into something holding them. The worst wound I have ever had was by a 33 cm Lysiosquillina that put a 9 cm gash in my hand using the uropod spine.l I was too busy watching the front end of the animal and forgot about the tail.
Roy
I wasn't kidding about even small animals being able to stab. Last week I was handling a new recruite about 11 mm long and it jabbed both dactyls into my finger. I had to pull it out with a pair of forcepts and it actually drew two tiny drops of blood.
By the way, when handling stomatopods, watch the tail as well. Most have a sharp spine on the uropod (outside of the tail fan). They can drive this into something holding them. The worst wound I have ever had was by a 33 cm Lysiosquillina that put a 9 cm gash in my hand using the uropod spine.l I was too busy watching the front end of the animal and forgot about the tail.
Roy
Wow. They carry a heavy arsenal. Do you wear any type of gloves when "handling" them, or do simply try not to use your hands in general?
I would like to "sex" my O.S. but I can't conveive of any safe plan to do so given the recent information you've just given me.
Any ideas? Would wearing leather gloves help? Would that be bad for my water?
Curious ...
JJ.
I would like to "sex" my O.S. but I can't conveive of any safe plan to do so given the recent information you've just given me.
Any ideas? Would wearing leather gloves help? Would that be bad for my water?
Curious ...
JJ.
Gonodactylus
Premium Member
I often wear Kevlar diving gloves. Leather is also good, but I would worry about contaminating a small system.
Using nets can be risky. Occasionally an animal will stab the net and get stuck in the mesh. You then have to cut it out or risk pulling off a raptorial appendage.
To sex the animal all you have to do is get it along side the glass preferably trying to climb up the side so that you can get a clear look at the base of the last walking leg. If you can see the gonopod hanging down (about a third the length of the walking leg), it is a male. If not, it is a female. Usually using a bit of food on the end of a feeding stick you can get an O. s. into position to sex it.
Roy
Using nets can be risky. Occasionally an animal will stab the net and get stuck in the mesh. You then have to cut it out or risk pulling off a raptorial appendage.
To sex the animal all you have to do is get it along side the glass preferably trying to climb up the side so that you can get a clear look at the base of the last walking leg. If you can see the gonopod hanging down (about a third the length of the walking leg), it is a male. If not, it is a female. Usually using a bit of food on the end of a feeding stick you can get an O. s. into position to sex it.
Roy
Gonodactylus
Premium Member
Indonesia, particulary northern Sulawesi, is a great area to see large Odontodactylids and Lysiosquillids. You can also walk most shorelines at very low tide and see gonodactylids darting around in two inches of water. Many of the dive guides in the region know stomatopods and can show you some of the larger species. Also, flights from BC to Indonesia are relatively cheap and costs once there are reasonable. That is the one place I can recommend that probably would not disappoint.l
If you follow the posts on this site, you will see that Florida and Hawaii can be tough. I always find hundreds when I work in Kaneohe Bay or the Keys, but others have had no luck. I am hesitant to recommend sites because I have been developing my search image for stomatopods for almost 40 years.
If you follow the posts on this site, you will see that Florida and Hawaii can be tough. I always find hundreds when I work in Kaneohe Bay or the Keys, but others have had no luck. I am hesitant to recommend sites because I have been developing my search image for stomatopods for almost 40 years.
wetworx101
In Memoriam
blue ring octos are pretty deadly and small...Im guessing you meant something with a shell however...
My favorite is a cuttlefish...crazy color/texture changing...and really smart...they communicate with a form of sign-language using their appendages. I am thinking about setting up a big tank to keep a few and really observe them.
My favorite is a cuttlefish...crazy color/texture changing...and really smart...they communicate with a form of sign-language using their appendages. I am thinking about setting up a big tank to keep a few and really observe them.
