mantis death?

[twocoloreyes]

it seems like every month theres a healthy handful of mantis owners complaining about there mantis curling up and dying. i myself have killed most of the mantis ive ever had. my friend killed one of them, but it died for obvious reasons. i can never understand the cause of death, sometimes they just plain disappear. most of the time, i just attribute it to a "bad molt". but really, why is it so easy for you to kill a mantis when you want to keep it alive and so hard to kill/trap when you dont want it?

i just dont get it.

for a the time being, i give up on mantis. maybe i just have bad luck, maybe every specimen i get from stores is destined to die anyways. maybe all of my tanks are laced with mantis poison. im tired of getting excited about bringing a mantis home and finding him dead in a few weeks or months. ive tried different tanks, different set ups. nothing seems to keep them from doing the death curl. its so depressing finding a curled up mantis.

so until someone can explain why myself and others seem to be killing so many mantis, i think ill just stay away from stomatopods and keep my sanity.

 

[dismalorb]

Hundreds of different factors come into play on this subject... I'll mention a few of the more popular ones...

1. We're dealing with hundreds (if not thousands) of people with varying degrees of experience in the hobby. Sometimes people start their first saltwater set-up with a Mantis Shrimp, not properly "cycling" their tank or liverock before adding the critter.

2. Naturally, many animals don't handle shipment very well... Especially when they have little to no time to adjust to captivity. At times these animals come from the islands, to the wholesale distributor, and then to the LFS or online livestock retailer within a VERY short period. (ever seen the movie Fire in the Sky? *smirk*)

3. ALOT of the times people don't have proper test kits to test their alkalinity and PH, which is also a major factor in ANY livestock death.. sometimes more so than salinity.

4. Elements necessary to this animal thriving are absent from the average aquarist's tank. Just because we add all the proper aquarium trace elements and calcium supplements we've learned and were told to do, there are many unknown requirements we have yet to grasp. Pressure comes to mind...

5. You're taking an animal from a VAST area and cramming it into a tiny and controlled biotope, minus its indigenous food source, water flow, potential mates, and everything else it was used to before captivity.

6. People lack the patience to wait. Apply that to many situations. 'Nuff said.

Some people just luck out when it comes to their bluethumb, as I like to call it. Don't give up entirely, just have patience and take things in stride.

 

[Pea-brain]

I seem to be having a similar problem. I had a P. ciliata for a mlt or two, then it got all seclusive and died. Then my G. chiragra I just got died, then a few months later i pcked up an N. wennerae and it did the death curl. I suspect soap contamination on the last one. SO here are some things that could cause this:

Tanks treated with some sort of chemical such as soap or heavy metal such as copper

Heaters leaking metals.

External chemicals. remember that mantises are extremely sensitive to chemicals. This makes it hard to determine cause of death sometimes.

Bad luck: it happens

Bad way of collection, stress from shipping and all that

Parasites, diseases

just plain injured

etc.

Do you use RO/DI? explain your setup please.

Dan

 

[dismalorb]

Tanks treated with some sort of chemical such as soap or heavy metal such as copper

Heaters leaking metals.

External chemicals. remember that mantises are extremely sensitive to chemicals. This makes it hard to determine cause of death sometimes.

Bad way of collection, stress from shipping and all that

Parasites, diseases

just plain injured

Do you use RO/DI? explain your setup please.

Dan [/B]

You're very right in all those cases. Why ANYONE would use copper or a heater in their reef tanks is beyond my comprehension though. I was always under the assumption that the less electrical current in your tank, the better. Blue Tangs come to mind as a critter sensitive to that sort of thing.

YES! Collection... Isn't it cyanide that is typically used to flush the coral of reef fish and invertebrates? I just watched something about that on one of the non-Discovery/National Geographic channels.

 

[Pea-brain]

I think cyanide would kill a mantis before it could be collected. I think it is only used for fish, but I'm not positive......

Dan

 

[ck1]

Why ANYONE would use copper or a heater in their reef tanks is beyond my comprehension

You don't recommend using a heater in a reef tank? What do you advise then?

 

[dismalorb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10682344#post10682344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ck1
You don't recommend using a heater in a reef tank? What do you advise then?

Your lights and pumps supply an adequate amount of heat to the tank, sometimes even more than necessary. Hence the reason why some people run chillers on their systems. There's really no reason to add more electrical current to the tank if you can help it.

Heaters also have a tendency to short out and continue running, which causes obvious problems.

Also, when your fish and invertebrates are used to temperature fluctuations, if there is ever a major change in temperature they will be more used to it and it won't shock them. Temperature fluctuates in nature.

 

[justinl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10682697#post10682697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dismalorb
Your lights and pumps supply an adequate amount of heat to the tank, sometimes even more than necessary. Hence the reason why some people run chillers on their systems. There's really no reason to add more electrical current to the tank if you can help it.

Heaters also have a tendency to short out and continue running, which causes obvious problems.

Also, when your fish and invertebrates are used to temperature fluctuations, if there is ever a major change in temperature they will be more used to it and it won't shock them. Temperature fluctuates in nature.

wow, where did you find that little tidbit of info? temperature fluctuations will just stress an animal, not train them. there is a reason most aquarists shoot for a set temperature and freak if it goes over 5 degrees up or down.

most tanks dont have overheating issues... only those in hot ambient climate or those who have large MH fixtures close to the water. adding a chiller still adds "current" into your system and many chillers actually come as "two stage" which means they are equipped with a heater to hit a set temp.

I dont know which heaters you're talking about that tend to short, but for such a critical piece of equipment i go for something reliable... like an ebo jager as opposed to a petsmart brand heater. oh and the point of equipment isnt to add current to the tank... in fact if the equipment does add current into the tank, that is generally a cause for great concern.

 

[dismalorb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10683303#post10683303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by justinl
temperature fluctuations will just stress an animal, not train them. there is a reason most aquarists shoot for a set temperature and freak if it goes over 5 degrees up or down.

There is no such thing as chillers or heaters in nature where temperatures are CONSTANTLY changing. As different waters flow through the areas, they bring with them different temperatures. Seasons also bring change in climate, especially which direction the wind is blowing from. Animals are used to this in nature. Think about night-time. The water doesn't just heat itself in nature, it cools down. Low-tide areas and exposed reef both come to mind.

most tanks dont have overheating issues... only those in hot ambient climate or those who have large MH fixtures close to the water. adding a chiller still adds "current" into your system and many chillers actually come as "two stage" which means they are equipped with a heater to hit a set temp.

Most tanks of experienced aquarists. If the products never failed, there'd be absolutely no reason to include a warranty with them. And I never said chillers are the way to go, I just said some people choose to use them for their systems. <br>

I dont know which heaters you're talking about that tend to short, but for such a critical piece of equipment i go for something reliable... like an ebo jager as opposed to a petsmart brand heater. oh and the point of equipment isnt to add current to the tank... in fact if the equipment does add current into the tank, that is generally a cause for great concern.

I've worked in several shops in the last year, and have dealt with a multitude of issues with people regarding heaters people bought and heaters we used in the shop, and when it comes to wholesale costs, you buy the store the best to use. Prior to that, I've had several heaters short out on my as well. Jäger, Marineland, AGA just to name a few. It's not just the cheapies that fail.