Marine ich and UV?

[mskvarenina]

SO my new fish have been in my new tank for about a week now. 2 of them have scratched against the coral now and then. Not a lot, but I have seem them do this.

There is no sign of dots on their skin yet.

I just added a UV light 2 days ago.

What should I do? I can't do a QT tank and I have some LR and snails and things so copper I don't think is an option.

Otherwise the fish look great. Swimming around, eating very well.

Will the UV be enough on it's own to kill the free swimming parasites and the fish will just recover on their own?

 

[Newsmyrna80]

First I would read the stickies at the top of the forum on cryptocaryon (ich). There are no reef safe treatments for ich. Why can't you quarantine? I, along with other aquarists, will tell you if you do not quarantine you will not be in this hobby for long. You don't need to spend a whole lot of money on the setup. In a pinch I've used a Rubbermaid container, an air stone, some PVC and a heater for a QT.
How long has your tank been set up? What are your parameters?

 

[ca1ore]

A UV may be helpful in reducing parasite 'pressure' but it will not eradicate the parasite from your tank. Organisms have to pass through the UV unit to be neutralized and common sense dictates that this will not happen to 100%.

If you want to keep a diverse fish population over the medium to long term, a robust QT process is critical. Good for the fish and for your wallet!

 

[mskvarenina]

Thanks for the reply. I could QT but I don't have a tank, space and additional gear needed for a QT.

The tank is fairly new. Up and running for about 6 weeks now. It's a 93g, sump, skimmer, and now 25W UV. Some LR from a LFS and alot of dry rock (which presumably is not becoming LR).

I have 8 fish, 2 perculas, 4 damsels (which were used for cycling the tank), a niger trigger and a red-tail trigger.

There is no visible sign of ich but the red tail was scratching against the rocks maybe once an hour yesterday. Not a long scratch, just a swim by. Then I saw the niger do this once yesterday.

Water appears to be good, no ammonia or nitrite, very low nitrate (second lowest color on the API chart). And all the fish area happy, swimming around and eating good.


WRT the UV light, yes I was wondering how effective it will be. It's located near the sump and has it's own pump with a flow rate of about 300 GPH. The supply comes from the sump supply side of the sump where the water first comes down from the tank, and I am returning the UV light water to the sump return side where the water is pumped back to the tank. I figured this way I'm not dumping the purified water back into the same chamber as the supply. All that said not all the water passing through the sump gets hit with the light so I'm assuming that the longer the light is running, the cleaner the water gets but it all takes times.

 

[Deinonych]

A QT does not need to be large or expensive - a 20g tank w/heater and HOB filter is all that is needed. Add a few pieces of PVC for the fish to hide in, and you're set. Frankly, if you don't use a QT, you're setting yourself up for failure IMO. Given that you are already likely dealing with cryptocaryon (ich), why not take the opportunity to treat your fish properly and keep them healthy long term? As ca1ore and newsmyrna80 have stated, UV will not eliminate the parasite, it will only reduce its numbers.

Sorry if this comes off as preachy, but I feel we have a responsibility to provide these animals the best of care, and that includes making sure they are free of disease.

 

[mskvarenina]

The other issue would be capturing the triggers. My tank has alot of rock and aquascaping and the only way I could possibly capture them is to remove all the rock so they can't lock in and try to hide.

 

[MrTuskfish]

The other issue would be capturing the triggers. My tank has alot of rock and aquascaping and the only way I could possibly capture them is to remove all the rock so they can't lock in and try to hide.

That's what you may have to do. When this is done, religiously a QT with all new fish and never worry about it again.

 

[mskvarenina]

I've heard a few people say that if I do nothing, many times the fish will build up their immunity/slime coat or whatever and be able to resist the ich.

And if my water is constantly flowing through the UV, the number of parasites should get smaller and smaller and possibly be completely eliminated over time.

Do you agree or will these fish just get sicker and sicker and die?

 

[gone fishin]

I've heard a few people say that if I do nothing, many times the fish will build up their immunity/slime coat or whatever and be able to resist the ich.

And if my water is constantly flowing through the UV, the number of parasites should get smaller and smaller and possibly be completely eliminated over time.

Do you agree or will these fish just get sicker and sicker and die?

People have already said the UV will not get rid of ich. A QT is vital to long term success. If you continue to try management of disease instead of elimination then ultimately you will lose fish to the disease.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

Have you read the stickies by Snorvich on ich? There is no easy way to cure fish or the tank of a disease. Hoping the immune system kicks in, UV, garlic, reef safe treatments...none of it will get rid of the parasite.
Chris is right about the QT not having to be expensive. The cost of the quarantine equipment is a fraction of the cost of having to buy new fish (because you lost the last batch to disease).

 

[MrTuskfish]

Have you read the stickies by Snorvich on ich? There is no easy way to cure fish or the tank of a disease. Hoping the immune system kicks in, UV, garlic, reef safe treatments...none of it will get rid of the parasite.
Chris is right about the QT not having to be expensive. The cost of the quarantine equipment is a fraction of the cost of having to buy new fish (because you lost the last batch to disease).

Yes, read the stickies by Snorvich. Regarding UV: Most newly released ich parasites are released by their mothers buried in the substrate. Most fish sleep on the substrate. For UV to work, all of these new parasites must find the UV before they find a fish host that is sleeping right above them. There simply isn't an easier way.

 

[ca1ore]

The cost of the quarantine equipment is a fraction of the cost of having to buy new fish.

You can easily setup a QT for less then $50. Avoiding dead reef fish will quickly pay that back, and then some.

 

[mskvarenina]

Well so far so good. Of the 8 fish, only the red tail scratches and I only saw him scratch once today during a feeding. No white spots, no sign of distress and everyone else in the tank also seems happy and are eating.

I'll check out Snorvich this weekend and of course keep the UV running for whatever benefit it adds.

 

[Newsmyrna80]

If you read the stickies you will see this is part of the cycle.

 

[mskvarenina]

So a week later, no signs of white spots or velvet on anyone. The red tail, niger and yellow tang still scratch against a rock once in a while, maybe once an hour or less. I've checked the water parameters and everything seems OK so I'm not sure if I have a problem or if this is just the way it goes. Everyone is healthy, eating and look happy (except when you see one of them swim up to a rock a violently take a scratch).

 

[Deinonych]

If they are scratching, they are still infected. White spots are not the only indicator of the disease being present.

 

[snorvich]

Depending on the life cycle of your particular strain of ich, at your particular salinity and temperature, visible signs will periodically reappear and then disappear. This gives a false sense of accomplishing a "cure". The nature of cryptocaryon irritans (ich) is that of exponentially increasing (UV will slow that a bit, but not prevent it) until it overwhelms your fish.

 

[mskvarenina]

I studied the life cycle. To me I would think that the longer the UV runs the lesser amount of parasites in the water. I mean in general the parasite falls off the fish into the substrate. A little while later a hatch of parasites start freely swimming looking for a host fish to infect. Many of these free swimmers will make it into the sump and pass through the UV killing them. So I would expect less and less parasites over time no?

The other thing to note is not all fish are effected, only 3 of the 8 have any scratching symptoms.

So now the $1,000,000 question. What to do? I'm sure there are a million answers out there. In my case, It's a FO tank with some LR but mostly ceramic biomedia. I've used copper in my prior tanks with the same filter setup and my biological did not die. This time around though I have a dozen snails so I was thinking one approach may be to remove the snails and put them in a small QT tank while I dose the tank with copper for a month or so. Or, I could just wait it out and if my theory above is correct, there will be less and less parasites.

And what amount medicated food? Does this work?

 

[snorvich]

I studied the life cycle. To me I would think that the longer the UV runs the lesser amount of parasites in the water. I mean in general the parasite falls off the fish into the substrate. A little while later a hatch of parasites start freely swimming looking for a host fish to infect. Many of these free swimmers will make it into the sump and pass through the UV killing them. So I would expect less and less parasites over time no?

No. The infectious part of the life cycle occurs for only a small part of the total life cycle time and those tomites are the only parts susceptible to passing by the UV (which may or may not be properly matched to your flow). The nature of cryptocaryon irritans is that it increases exponentially over time. The only effect UV will have is to lengthen the amount of time before ich overwhelms your fish.

 

[snorvich]

I studied the life cycle.

These questions were answered in the various ich stickies.