Marine Velvet Fresh water dip/tank transfer treatment

[jasony816]

I was wondering if anybody has treated Marine Velvet buy doing fresh water dips/baths and tank transfers instead of using any meds like copper? I read an article on reefkeeping and it mention something about using fresh water dips/baths to get some relief for fish infected with Marine Velvet and would knock off some of the parasites. Could we possibly dip/bath in fresh water then transfer to new tank with new water and doing that for several days like how you would treat Ich using the tank transfer method?

My whole point of this is to try to find a way to treat marine velvet w/o the use of copper/formalin/etc...

 

[snorvich]

Sorry it will not work. The purpose of fresh water dips is to allow your fish to live long enough to have the copper kill the parasite. If you do indeed have velvet, time is of the essence as it kills quickly.

 

[snorvich]

Oh, and tank transfer works exceptionally well for ich, but not for velvet or brook.

 

[jasony816]

Ok, guess that doesnt work, just a theory I came up with reading that article in reefkeeping. I guess you have to use meds and no way around it, im not a big fan of using copper though. I know copper will render the tank useless for corals/inverts, but what about the equipment inside the QT like the powerhead/filter/heater will they absorb the copper?

 

[snorvich]

Ok, guess that doesnt work, just a theory I came up with reading that article in reefkeeping. I guess you have to use meds and no way around it, im not a big fan of using copper though. I know copper will render the tank useless for corals/inverts, but what about the equipment inside the QT like the powerhead/filter/heater will they absorb the copper?

why not get a cheap 20 gallon tank and convert it to a hospital tank? Any equipment that will not absorb copper is safe from it. However I tend to rinse everything in vinegar to bleach to insure that there is no contamination . But, do whatever quickly.

 

[MrTuskfish]

Ok, guess that doesnt work, just a theory I came up with reading that article in reefkeeping. I guess you have to use meds and no way around it, im not a big fan of using copper though. I know copper will render the tank useless for corals/inverts, but what about the equipment inside the QT like the powerhead/filter/heater will they absorb the copper?

Copper will not be absorbed by glass or silicone; this is a myth that just won't die. It probably goes back to the old Metaframe days with tanks framed in stainless steel and using a black cement. LR & substrate will absorb copper, however. Scroll down the FAQ:http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

To echo Snorvich: There just isn't an easier way to treat velvet. The speed with which velvet kills can't be over-emphasized. Cupramine copper and the right test kit are quite safe, IMO & IME. The above link will tell you plenty about copper. Unfortunately, many fish are lost to velvet, even with the best treatment plan. But almost always, its the velvet that kills them, not the copper. (Assuming the copper has been used correctly.)

 

[jasony816]

I dont have Marine Velvet on any of my fishes, just had a theory and wanted to see if anyone had any insight on it. I have a 10 gal QT at the moment with sponge filter and heater and a small power head for additional flow.

Whats your take on the med Formalin? You think its the only med to treat Brook? I want to stock up my marine fish med cabinet but I heard that it has a short shelf life so I dont want to stockup on it if I dont need it until necessary.

 

[snorvich]

I dont have Marine Velvet on any of my fishes, just had a theory and wanted to see if anyone had any insight on it. I have a 10 gal QT at the moment with sponge filter and heater and a small power head for additional flow.

Whats your take on the med Formalin? You think its the only med to treat Brook? I want to stock up my marine fish med cabinet but I heard that it has a short shelf life so I dont want to stockup on it if I dont need it until necessary.

In my blog, I have a list of useful meds that every serious aquarist should consider having.

Q: What are some medications I should have on hand?
A:

* Copper ideally cupramine - for ich and other external parasites
* Praziquantel - for flukes and worms
* nitrofurazone - for open wounds or sores
* Metronidazole - for intestinal and other protozoa
* Formalin - for brook and other external parasites
* Erythromycin and Minocycline - for bacterial prevention/treatment
* Food enhancers such as Selcon, Vitality, and Eco Garlic

 

[oscar.millan]

Oh, and tank transfer works exceptionally well for ich, but not for velvet or brook.

Do we know why tank transfer doesn't work for Velvet. I'd read this before, but I'd like to understand why? Similar life cycles, I wonder what would make tank transfer less effective when dealing specifically with Velvet?

 

[ThRoewer]

Amyloodinium can reproduce directly on the fish without encystment. That is the primary reason why TTM doesn't work for it.

Copper is also unreliable as there are some Amyloodinium strains that can handle twice the lethal dose for fish. Further it can adapt to copper if the dosage is not right and maintained well.

The most reliable medication is Chloroquine Phosphate.
A modified form of TTM works only as an assisting measure when using daily formalin dips to rid fish of Amyloodinium or Brooklynella.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

You might be better off treating with Chloroquine Phosphate if you can find 100% pure dose.

 

[ThRoewer]

You might be better off treating with Chloroquine Phosphate if you can find 100% pure dose.

NLS Ick-Shield Powder (@ Amazon) is the easiest to get without prescription or dealing with shady ebay dealers.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

NLS Ick-Shield Powder (@ Amazon) is the easiest to get without prescription or dealing with shady ebay dealers.

Is that pure CP?

 

[ThRoewer]

For all I know, yes.

 

[Deinonych]

Amyloodinium can reproduce directly on the fish without encystment. That is the primary reason why TTM doesn't work for it.

Are you sure about this? I've never seen this cited in the literature. Certainly Brooklynella can (and does) reproduce directly, but I'm not aware of this being the case for Amyloodinium.

 

[ThRoewer]

I thought I've read it somewhere but may be wrong. I would however assume that it can encyst on the fish. Otherwise TTM with shorter (daily) intervals should work.

 

[oscar.millan]

Discussion continues...

Perhaps a combination of treatments with Tank Transfer. I've been thinking of Tank Transfer with Fresh water dips.

Hopefully someone can chime in definitely and let us know why tank transfer won't work.

 

[Breakthecycle2]

Discussion continues...

Perhaps a combination of treatments with Tank Transfer. I've been thinking of Tank Transfer with Fresh water dips.

Hopefully someone can chime in definitely and let us know why tank transfer won't work.

From a well trusted member on another site

"In theory, it should; however you would need to do the transfer every 12 hours.

TTM works on ich because 3 days is the minimum amount of time trophonts can remain on a fish; 7 days is the max. So at some point during the process you will have literally outrun the parasite's known life cycle. For velvet the "on fish" time range is 12hrs - 4 days. So applying the same logic, you would need to do the transfer every 12 hours. Too much work for me. "

 

[ThRoewer]

Well, transfers alone might also not be enough you would also need to do daily formalin and freshwater dips.
On the plus side - if 4 days on the fish is really the max - you may be done after a week, which would mean you only have to do 3 more transfers than with ich.

 

[Deinonych]

I agree that TTM for velvet simply isn't practical given the virulent nature of the parasite. Best to stick with CP for remediation.