MARS VP Opening

[kdblove_99]

I posted in the other thread that is one job i would not want and seems to be very time consuming.

Seems like he did a great job and you hate to see people leave cause they felt disrespected

If it was burn out i think everyone would be ok with it. I could see how VP could burn you out.

But if its the Q&A issue with Paul. Why make the rest of the club suffer cause you have an issue with a particular member? You quit over 1 guys comments on this board?

Why not stick it out and try and make the club based more on speakers and Knowledge than raffles?

I like the raffles but if they went away oh well. I have said from the beginning if the club is based on raffles it will not last or if it does will not be strong.

I'm so much more looking forward to Sanjay in February than any raffle. I would rather Sanjay speak longer ands skip the raffle if you want my honest opinion.


I'm not on anyones side here and i don't want you to think that. To be honest i would rather you and Paul talk this thing out and you return as VP. I would defiently vote for you, Bruce

 

[kevin95695]

Bruce: Nice job. But stepping down twice in one year? Personality conflicts that bad?

Bye.

 

[JJ4417]

So...if we could put a halt to the MARS high school drama...Back to the original point that Mark brought up.

I would like to hear this...

1) Who are the board members?
2) Their experience in the hobby
3) Any income from the biz
4) What each persons goal for the club is without citing utterly useless mission statements that are used only for paperwork. As a board member, what is your personal goal for the club? (Not fluffy crap...but serious attainable goals.)

I think that this would actually be of some intererst to the club members and those that are thinking of joining, as well as an appropriate discussion for RC instead of the members forum.

 

[Brian Prestwood]

Mark

Mark

I think your question about the ethics of running an aquarium trade business and being a MARS/MARS Board member are valid. It would be better if this weren't a stealth topic hiding under the VP opening announcement. Unfortunately, there's too much here to move it. I do hope RC doesn't mind us discussing it here.

I think working in the aquarium trade introduces a bias that, in some cases, forces a person to choose between the best interests of the club and the best interests of their business.

I think member bias isn't any of the club's official business. I do hope that members that have the bias have the decency to disclose it when expessing biased opinions. However, I don't think the club should establish policies to hinder members from running a business. On the flip side, I think the club should never put the interests of any business ahead of its own.

Board members are a different story. I believe all members who work in the aquarium trade should disclose that if they run for office. I also believe some sectors of the aquarium trade are intrinsically competitive with club activities. Members in those sectors should not be allowed to run for office. In other words, if most of your income comes from selling what we're giving away you should not be on the board. I'd like to see both of my beliefs enacted as bylaws. Fortunately for everyone, MARS is a democracy. If a majority of the membership doesn't agree with me then it won't happen.

Again, per the bylaws, changes to bylaws must go to a vote of the membership, not just the board. The board can put it before the membership or five members can ask the President to do it.

 

[kevin95695]

As a newly elected board member, I am an enthusiast. My "day job" is completely unrelated to the club and irrelevant in this context. I have been an aquarist for nearly 20 years, with about a year as a reefer at this point. I have not defined any goals as a board member. Accepted the nomination as I felt compelled to "give back" beyond making comments on a forum.

 

[JJ4417]

I'll just throw down a new thread and this one can go where it wants.

 

[Brian Prestwood]

Paul and Bruce

Paul and Bruce

After ten years as a MARS member, I think I can say with some certainty that the raffle table is a determining factor in the membership size. I also think it is true that if the membership drops below approx 40 it isn't self sustaining through word of mouth and that it will continue to drop without extensive intervention. It also doesn't generate enough income to pay for speakers when it is below 40.

That is an unfortunately reality. However, it is better to accept an unfortunately reality and deal with it than to ignore it.

Bruce, like you, I think it would be better if we were raffling off more dry goods and less livestock. I am hopeful that the vendor donation letters the club is sending out will provide enough dry goods to offset some of the live stock.

Bruce and Paul, unlike you I think club sponsored group buys of dry goods are a good idea. They put dry goods on the raffle table. I understand their arguement that group buys harm the LFS. I think we've come up with some ways to mitigate that damage.

 

[MrMikeB]

Well if this is the place to reach more people then here it is.

It is not secret that I run multiple ventures, some of which in the aquarium sector. I do not feel these ventures make me less of an reef enthusiast, and I surely do not see myself as fitting the profile as "big bad business." To that end, and in the spirit of perhaps actually addressing Mark's question, I fully disclose:

1) I am CEO of California Center for Reef Conservation - an upstart R+D public benefit company dedicated to the research of captive propagation techniques of marine animals. It is a corporation with valid CA business licenses, resellers permit, and is in the process of being solidified as a NPO.

If the club feels that my work at CalCRC (which I donate my time and considerable amount of $$$) conflicts me from helping out as a Board member, then please share. I hope that you can see the strengths in what MARS and CalCRC have in common, but if the club feels this is a conflict of interest, I would step down my position on the club rather than tarnish the integrity of the Board.

On a side note, and perhaps Bruce already covered this: If there is indeed questions, concerns, feedback, etc. please feel free to share. I have a very open door policy on most things and do not bite too hard. After a couple beers, you wont get me to shut up. In all seriousness, all I ask is that you show me and your fellow reefer (hell for that matter, your fellow man) the same respect as you would wish them to show you. I know it goes without saying, and perhaps that is the problem.

 

[P.Kelly]

I am an aquarist of over 20 years, on and off in saltwater and freshwater. I returned to the hobby this time about a year ago and have 4 tanks at the present.

I am employed in the professional services/IT industry.

I will sell/trade equipment and coral from my personal inventory on occasion to support my habit, but have never "made" money on it. I do not buy anything related to the hobby with the specific intention to sell for a profit.

I would love to open a LFS one day, after I've made enough money to retire and loose a ton on the store.

 

[Brian Prestwood]

Mike

Unlike for profit businesses, your NPO research doesn't appear competitive with MARS' work, in fact just the opposite. MARS and CalCRC appear to have similar goals.

My only concern about your work is that, correct me if I'm wrong, you are selling frags of your research coral to pay for your research.

I don't think that bias is unmanageable. Just disclose that your NPO is dependant on sales from frags whenever expressing opinions against MARS activities that would affect your sales. You should probably also abstain from any votes against them too.

As with MARS, I am certain the LFSs will recognize CalCRC as competition and, with you on the board, MARS as guilty by association. I think I've made my priorities clear. Of course, anything you can do to mitigate the damage your activties do to the LFSs would be appreciated. As with MARS, CalCRC comes first for CalCRC.

I am looking forward to seeing your research. Can MARS get first drafts?

 

[MrMikeB]

Brian, et al.

The sale of propagated corals, and other test animals once the testing cycle has been completed is indeed an issue at CalCRC. If I have 50 pairs of shrimp that I need to move out to make room for the next test subjects- they have to go somewhere.

As most of my funds are donations (from the bank of MrMikeB currently) and hopeful grants, the sale of livestock will be more or less at wholesale level. The sale of propagated livestock to help 'keep the lights on,' is essential, however I am not a LFS, nor do I wish to deal with the problems thereto. The business plan is to actually sell to resellers (the LFS) in volume as I do not have the time or resources or licensing to court the individual. I can share with you actual projected numbers, but you will quickly see that the selling of livestock would be a drop in the bucket as compared to the overall operating and capital expenses.

I am very cognizant in keeping my personal and professional aspirations in neat little buckets and putting checks and bounds in place to ensure they remain autonomous where needed. This being said, should I feel the direction of the club and its needs are at odds with my other ventures (or others feel this way), I will be than happy to provide a remedy.

My reason for joining the Board is very simple: I am tired of *****ing about the club not doing anything or sponsoring nifty programs and ideas. I always felt if you are going to complain about something, you surely best be willing to do something about it - else, well shut the...

 

[mpoletti]

When I asked my original question I meant the club as as whole. I see Mike as a person who loves this hobby just as much as i do.

When I heard Bruce was stepping, I thought of who would be good for this position and I thought of Mike. Lets get that straight.
In order for any organization to expand, it must have a solid foundation.

My only concern is that it seems like group has been more interested in expansion than on improving. I am not trying to upset people or make people take sides, I joined MARS to further my eduactaion as a hobbyist. As long as we can further that goal, my membership will be worth it in full. I hope that this push to get new members does not push established members away.

Whoever the next VP will be, I will be here to help and aid in accomplishing this task.

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11469007#post11469007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CaptiveReefSystems
funny Paul, I never heard there was a problem with the Q&A until you brought it up. I am not sure you even know what the word respect means.


I am done with MARS and for some I am sure that is a good thing. If you have anything you want to take issue with where it concerns me, do it to my face or at least my ear, not here. I can only imagine what outsiders think of us with all this negative back and forth.

I hope you are right about your method to build MARS into a super club. Maybe someday I will have to eat my words and apologize to you. I just did not want to be part of a club where the education took a back seat to a raffle. Thats just me I guess.

First things first Bruce, I did not start the post that said what kind of job you did on Q&A. In fact there were several posts before I said in agreement of some that " I was unhappy as well with the way that Q&A went." The fact is that you never got flamed at all. There was simply a discussion that in some people's opinion the Q&A was too opionated. Then you just stepped down. I never did anything to disrespect you personally but you certainly just took a shot at me in parting. I am going to dig up the post for you to reread.

You just attacked me here, and yet I have never heard a word from you, even at the last meeting. Not one p.m., no phone call, absolutely nothing. In fact you smiled to my face and chatted with me at the meeting. I wish if you were as mad as you seem and are so fond of acting respectfully, you could have shown me some.

As far as the raffle goes I will not apologize. I have worked my TAIL off to just make it fun! ( time spent = 20 hours a month easily)!! I guess some members just don't think its a positive. I gave it my all however and I wish I had heard from you face to face if the success of the raffle was upsetting you. I never asked for it to take over the speaker, or be moved up in importance. I simply took an aspect of the meeting and made it better.


"I am done with MARS and for some I am sure that is a good thing. If you have anything you want to take issue with where it concerns me, do it to my face or at least my ear, not here. I can only imagine what outsiders think of us with all this negative back and forth.

I hope you are right about your method to build MARS into a super club. Maybe someday I will have to eat my words and apologize to you. I just did not want to be part of a club where the education took a back seat to a raffle. Thats just me I guess."

I would love to meet you face to face. What is your schedule like today? Feel free to reach me here or via pm. I will make time for whenever works for you.

I am not going back and forth with you at all. This post was the first time I knew you had a problem with me personally. As far as respect goes, please reread the way you approached me and ask yourself if it is me that is the one who has been disrespected. I would also ask you and anyone else to reread the Q&A post and tell me if I was the one in fact who showed you any disrepect there.

The club will go on. That doesn't mean anyone is happy to see you go. Whetjer the club is getting better or worse? That is all opinion but the fact is that the board works hard and we may not always see eye to eye but we all mutually respect eachother. I work very hard as a BOD member, as I am sure you did as well. There is no one having a party that you resigned, but it was your decision. I read things all the time that are negative about myself, my position, and my raffles but I try to have thick skin. I feel you could have done a lot more as VP to make your point as to the direction of the club than by quitting and telling us the reasoning here. Best of luck to you Bruce!

 

[pbetito]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11471947#post11471947 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
When I asked my original question I meant the club as as whole. I see Mike as a person who loves this hobby just as much as i do.

When I heard Bruce was stepping, I thought of who would be good for this position and I thought of Mike. Lets get that straight.
In order for any organization to expand, it must have a solid foundation.

My only concern is that it seems like group has been more interested in expansion than on improving. I am not trying to upset people or make people take sides, I joined MARS to further my eduactaion as a hobbyist. As long as we can further that goal, my membership will be worth it in full. I hope that this push to get new members does not push established members away.

Whoever the next VP will be, I will be here to help and aid in accomplishing this task.

Mark,
I don't feel attacked by you nor does Mike I think we actually agree in principle. I think by improving the club there will be expansion and they are both good. I know I am seen as Mr. Raffle but I spend a lot of time trying to improve our image in the community as well. I am the one who is pushing Mike to run but it is out of the belief I have that he will make a difference in the Speakers he will bring us and the way he will run the meetings. He actually does have a sense of humor...err albeit a weird one !!! Learning is always a huge priority, but so is enjoyment. If done hand in hand it is MO that we will have the best of both worlds. People show up on a Friday at 7 p.m. because they love the hobby and want to learn more. I just want to make sure that they have fun while they are there.

"I hope that this push to get new members does not push established members away."

There isn't really a push for new members as much as there is a push for action. To be quite honest, there are actually WAY MORE old members coming back than there are new ones, and that we can agree on is a good thing!

 

[MrMikeB]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11472045#post11472045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pbetito
Mark,
I don't feel attacked by you nor does Mike

I second this. I thought your point is very valid, and like all businesses (NPO or otherwise), transparency is key.

I am all too humbled with the support I have received from members such as yourself. I do not claim to have all the aswers, most of em, but not all. I see myself, and the VP position, as the GPS navigation system to the club. You, the club and its members, provide me a start and a finish, and I will map it out for you and help guide you along the way. My strengths lie in being able to understand a goal, and build and execute a solution to achieve it. I also have an uncanny ability to get people who know much more than I, to do my work for me - sometimes w/o their knowledge. :eek1: So if I do call you one day to chat over lunch, you would do well to play sick.

 

[bored4long]

I deleted my post...I just never know what is 'too much'.

so I'll limit it to these two points:

1. I'm constantly amazed how many posts/replies are thrown up on RC that have no business being here. Please use your P.M.s people. This isn't a popularity contest. No one is running for Prom Queen. The general public does not need to read this stuff. Please show some restraint.

2. Are the BOG meetings open to the regular members? I'd like to start attending when I can if they are. Also, can someone point me to the BOG minutes? I couldn't find them on the website.

Mark, your initial question was one I have pondered, too. I think full disclosure of all BOG is a good start. I feel Mike is a great candidate for VP.

 

[MrMikeB]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11472263#post11472263 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bored4long

2. Are the BOG meetings open to the regular members? I'd like to start attending when I can if they are. Also, can someone point me to the BOG minutes? I couldn't find them on the website.

Mark, the general club business meetings are open to the public and I really encourage folks to attend to learn more about what is going on. The monthly meeting minutes are posted on the BOG private forum. I am actively working on getting an approved version over in the general forum on the MARS website on a go forward basis.

 

[kdblove_99]

I think Mike would make a great VP

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11472045#post11472045 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pbetito
Mark,

"I hope that this push to get new members does not push established members away."

Paul, The reason I mentioned this was because the perception of the christmas party and the tank give away.
I do believe that memebership has its privledges and sometimes events should be for existing memebers.
I think I got that from BAR. I saw that and I was, WOW, that is so cool. Existing members only. If you announce it before hand that you must join by a certain date, that is one less thing to worry about the day of the event.

Pete- How long were you taking new memberships and straightening out old ones as well I bet it would of been nice to mingle with friends instaead of explaining where pay pals went

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11472184#post11472184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrMikeB
I second this. I thought your point is very valid, and like all businesses (NPO or otherwise), transparency is key.

I am all too humbled with the support I have received from members such as yourself. I do not claim to have all the aswers, most of em, but not all. I see myself, and the VP position, as the GPS navigation system to the club. You, the club and its members, provide me a start and a finish, and I will map it out for you and help guide you along the way. My strengths lie in being able to understand a goal, and build and execute a solution to achieve it. I also have an uncanny ability to get people who know much more than I, to do my work for me - sometimes w/o their knowledge. :eek1: So if I do call you one day to chat over lunch, you would do well to play sick.

Mike, I knew that you and Paul would not have a problem with this as I know that you both have the welfare of the whole. An healthy organization uses system of checks and balances to help strenghthen and improve along the way.
I am sorry that people though that I was trying to "start something" as I am pretty positive in most of my endeavors. It was something that I had spoke to a few people about and that is why I originally brought it up. Sometimes it is better to ask than not too. I am strong enough person to take constructive criticism so that is why I brough up this idea into a groupthink forum.
In no way was it a personal attack, but an honest debateable question. I look forward to lunch