DiscusHeckel
Acropora Gardener
Thanks Reefvet.
I also rely on GAC,m which is another way we remove DOCs. Some say that GAC is more efficient than skimming.
matrix/siporax vs carbon dosing for sps
- Thread starter tboneman
- Start date
Thanks Reefvet.
I also rely on GAC,m which is another way we remove DOCs. Some say that GAC is more efficient than skimming.
moatdaddy
New member
I have never dosed vodka or any other carbon source to beef up my bacteria levels. I have always let them increase or decrease off my bioload. I understand that you can inflate your levels by carbon dosing but how can that help if most housing for bacteria does not induce nitrate removal.
Two questions.
1. Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrates. Correct? If that is the case how do we get Nitrates to release via gas exchange? That is the end goal correct, to get nitrates to bubble out of our tanks naturally. Based on product descriptions, matrix, siporax, and most of marine pure do not advertise as being nitrate removers. They advertise as being hosting places for bacteria. Marine pure 8x8x4 blocks advertise as removing nitrates, and in my system i believe that to be true. I cannot get my nitrates to read above 0, my phosphates yup. So if the majority of these products say the DO NOT remove nitrates, how is it people think that increasing the bacteria population via carbon dosing will remove nitrates.
2. I decide i want to increase bacteria population. I start feeding carbon source of my choice, Vodka!! Population increases due to a new food source allowing it to. Is the extra population going to do a better than job than before because there are extra hungry mouths to feed? Next come the die off of these said bacteria. When they die what do they convert to? Ammonia to begin with as they decay? If so havent you just set up your tank for failure? If you miss a feeding during the life cycle of these bacteria, ie you feed vodka for 3 weeks every day 3 times a day, and then stopped. How would the surviving bacteria process the dead ones and the current tank bio load? I know a lot of tanks in cycle go through a bacteria bloom, there has to be die off so i am not too concerned about this one. Yet it does seem to pose a potential hazard if someone stopped carbon dosing suddenly. Of course this is all a theory. I have heard of many tanks carbon dosing with success.
As i said before I have never dosed carbon because i dont see the science behind it, I do have matrix, and marinepure. I will never start another tank without them and would recommend them, especially the marinepure block to anyone who asks.
Brandon
Two questions.
1. Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrates. Correct? If that is the case how do we get Nitrates to release via gas exchange? That is the end goal correct, to get nitrates to bubble out of our tanks naturally. Based on product descriptions, matrix, siporax, and most of marine pure do not advertise as being nitrate removers. They advertise as being hosting places for bacteria. Marine pure 8x8x4 blocks advertise as removing nitrates, and in my system i believe that to be true. I cannot get my nitrates to read above 0, my phosphates yup. So if the majority of these products say the DO NOT remove nitrates, how is it people think that increasing the bacteria population via carbon dosing will remove nitrates.
2. I decide i want to increase bacteria population. I start feeding carbon source of my choice, Vodka!! Population increases due to a new food source allowing it to. Is the extra population going to do a better than job than before because there are extra hungry mouths to feed? Next come the die off of these said bacteria. When they die what do they convert to? Ammonia to begin with as they decay? If so havent you just set up your tank for failure? If you miss a feeding during the life cycle of these bacteria, ie you feed vodka for 3 weeks every day 3 times a day, and then stopped. How would the surviving bacteria process the dead ones and the current tank bio load? I know a lot of tanks in cycle go through a bacteria bloom, there has to be die off so i am not too concerned about this one. Yet it does seem to pose a potential hazard if someone stopped carbon dosing suddenly. Of course this is all a theory. I have heard of many tanks carbon dosing with success.
As i said before I have never dosed carbon because i dont see the science behind it, I do have matrix, and marinepure. I will never start another tank without them and would recommend them, especially the marinepure block to anyone who asks.
Brandon
Naptalene
New member
I have not had a chance to read it, but the opening paragraph would appear to be very on point for my queries.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
reefmutt
Active member
Brandon, the answers to your questions are also here:
Dosing nitrate to reduce phosphate.. It explains the interactions of bacteria and Carbon sources..
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2210947
It would be well worth your while to read this thread. It will give you a much deep understanding of how your reef works on a bacterial level.
SeargentSlice
New member
So I just received 20l of pond matrix.... I have 100g stock tank for a sump running approx 400 gph through it.. Was going to make mesh crates to house it in... Or would it be better off in a diy up flow canister filter or down flow trickle type ?
Thx
Thx
I use both matrix and carbon [NP Pro] with Pro Bio S. The Matrix is very effective just in a basket with low flow. It just needs to be kept clear of detritus. Together with the carbon source, I must feed heavy just to maintain any nitrates in the tank.
SeargentSlice
New member
Oh that's good to hear that'll save me some time not constructing a canister... Not to mention running a pump and have another piece of equipment to clean.. I dose pro bio S and pro bio F ... Np pro triggers Cyano in my system..
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Im using nopox and have 0 No3 and 0.06 Po4. If i up dosing nopox there is no point coz there will be no No3 present in the sistem. What should i do to reduce Po4 and to have balance. Adding No3 via NaNo3 or remove Po4 with Rowaphos.
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reefmutt
Active member
That's a debatable question but I'd say adding nitrate would be more effective, efficient and less expensive.
And if your system is truly nitrate limited, I have found that gfo won't work that well anyways.
Matrix
Matrix
I had 2 liters of siporax after some research on my 330 but after seeing the cost of siporax (more large pond version) I also added 4liters of seachem pond matrix in a lower flow area of my sump.
After 3 months of nitrates being in the 80 range I ran carbon and 2 liters siporax and 4 liters pond matrix. not until the second month did it really start to come down. I run socks so detritus build up is very minimal. I also have it in 1 liter bags so I can pull them and shake them and loosen any build up.
I now use 6 liters of regular matrix:
Nitrates are still over 5 but considering were I started and the fact that I have cutoff carbon I am happy with results. I now have 4 more liters of pond matrix for a total of 8 liters of pond matrix 6 liters of regular matrix and 2 liters of the smellier Siporax.
At this point I am sticking with matrix and here is why.
Seachem claims higher surface area vs marine pure vs siporax.
It's readily available and cheaper
I have been using it in my discus tank for over 6 years.
Also none of these media are good at buffering like live rock but pumice is a natural stone vs something that is mafacutred siporax and marine pure. Leaching has not been reported.
Matrix
I had 2 liters of siporax after some research on my 330 but after seeing the cost of siporax (more large pond version) I also added 4liters of seachem pond matrix in a lower flow area of my sump.
After 3 months of nitrates being in the 80 range I ran carbon and 2 liters siporax and 4 liters pond matrix. not until the second month did it really start to come down. I run socks so detritus build up is very minimal. I also have it in 1 liter bags so I can pull them and shake them and loosen any build up.
I now use 6 liters of regular matrix:
Nitrates are still over 5 but considering were I started and the fact that I have cutoff carbon I am happy with results. I now have 4 more liters of pond matrix for a total of 8 liters of pond matrix 6 liters of regular matrix and 2 liters of the smellier Siporax.
At this point I am sticking with matrix and here is why.
Seachem claims higher surface area vs marine pure vs siporax.
It's readily available and cheaper
I have been using it in my discus tank for over 6 years.
Also none of these media are good at buffering like live rock but pumice is a natural stone vs something that is mafacutred siporax and marine pure. Leaching has not been reported.
I was battling high nitrate (30-35ppm) that even a 50% water change didn't solve. It was basically because I was running my brightwell bio brick suspended in wet/dry config so my rate of nitrification was super high and my anaerobic bacteria couldn't keep up as that was all I had.
I ordered the brightwell xport no3 brick version as that one is coated in sulfur which is supposed to aid in anaerobic bacteria growth. I seeded it per instructions overnight in a loaf pan with saltwater and half a bottle of mb7. Next morning I put the block in the tank in a low flow area as directed. Tested no3 before I put in and it was 30ppm. Also put some nopox in the sump to feed the bacteria.
I kid you not the next morning (24 hours later) I tested my nitrate and it was 1. I tested it twice to make sure and same result. Now I just run both blocks, one suspended in the air with higher flow rate and the no3 one submerged with low flow. I feed tons and my no3 is staying constant at 5 which is where I want it.
I ordered the brightwell xport no3 brick version as that one is coated in sulfur which is supposed to aid in anaerobic bacteria growth. I seeded it per instructions overnight in a loaf pan with saltwater and half a bottle of mb7. Next morning I put the block in the tank in a low flow area as directed. Tested no3 before I put in and it was 30ppm. Also put some nopox in the sump to feed the bacteria.
I kid you not the next morning (24 hours later) I tested my nitrate and it was 1. I tested it twice to make sure and same result. Now I just run both blocks, one suspended in the air with higher flow rate and the no3 one submerged with low flow. I feed tons and my no3 is staying constant at 5 which is where I want it.
reefmutt
Active member
This is very interesting. I hadn't heard of that Brightwell's product. I'll check it out.
Thanks!
bif24701
New member
The moment I started adding nitrates to my system my PO4 dropped like a rock, just saying. Good luck.
