Max flow through refugium

[Thunderstruck]

I am just doing my first large tank set up, and was wondering what everyone’s opinion on the max flow through the fuge is? I will be looking at the fuge primarily as a nitrate reducer. My sump measures 36x20x20 (diagram below). I will be running the water on average at 13 inches (40 gallons). My refugium section however is only 12x20 (13.5 gallons). I have read a lot of varying opinions on flow rate through the refuge. One of my main questions was when considering flow rate, should I look at the volume of the whole sump, or just the refugium section? I need to get a return pump for this tank asap, and looking into the blueline series. On the low end I was looking at 420 GPH, and on the high end I was considering 650 GPH. Any thoughts on flow rates would be VERY helpful

 

[FelipeBastos]

I cannot safely say what is best in your case, but in my experience, low flow through the fuge has worked very well, not only as a nitrate reducer, but also as a pod breeding haven.

I didn't have a fuge for a year and cannot believe I went that long without one.

I have almost 0 nitrates even though I have a medium/large livetsock, and more importantly , I can see huhdreds if not thousands of pods in the fuge's walls at any given time. And I have a mandarin there!

Hope this helps,

Felipe

 

[Henry Bowman]

400-500 gph is what I have considered to be optimal in my current 90 with a sump and fuge of almost exactly the same config. It is working great. I have cheato and EcoSystems Miracle mud in it with lots of pods and micro fauna.

I am setting up a second tank currently for SPS. I will have a closed loop running 1200 gph for flow and intend on doing the exact same thing since my working tank is behaving sooooo nicely.

 

[Kent E]

I have a 450 tank with a 150 sump. I run 700 gph.

 

[pjf]

Flow = 10 X Volume = 975 GPH

Flow = 10 X Volume = 975 GPH

Based on the Iwaki MD-30RXT performance curves, I have 4 feet of vertical head and 975 gallons per hour flowing through my 75-gallon aquarium and 29-gallon refugium. My goal was to meet the “10 x Volume” guideline.

To maximize flow, a 1.25” bulkhead feeds the pump. My return tubing is 1” diameter leading to a 1” x ¾” x ¾” Y-manifold and terminating with two ¾” nozzles. I customized my overflow drain coupling to mate with 1.25” tubing.

My refugium is simpler than yours with only 3 compartments and 2 baffles, corresponding to your baffles #2 and #3. Water drains into the leftmost compartment where a Remora skimmer hangs. The water flows under the first baffle and creates an upward current that suspends chaetomorpha algae in the next compartment. A “betta fish” mesh divider propped next to the second baffle keeps the algae from spilling to the return compartment.

 

[daytonians]

I never had any luck with a fuge until I really increased the flow. I now have ~800 GPH running through my main tank and all of that dumps directly into my 29 gallon fuge. Thanks 27.5 X. My fuge is now teaming with life and my tank looks great.

With low flow, (say 300 GPH) I always had trouble with cyano growing in the fuge and little pod growth.

Just my experience.

 

[Thunderstruck]

My main conern was not over doing the flow. Being that I have my fuge in my sump, the flow is preaty tricky. I was consdiering running a blueline 30 HD in the tank. I figure with my set up that would give me about 418 GPH. That would be 2.3x tank volume, 10.45x sump volume, and 31x fuge volume. I would make up the rest of my circulation by using for Tunze 6000 streams in the tank, each rated at 1850 GPH. Here is a 3d look at my sump and plumbing...

 

[McCrary]

The flow in my fuge is around 300gph for a 10 gallon fuge,I also use a powerhead to increase the water movement and surface agitation. Seems to work pretty well.

 

[pjf]

Baffled

Baffled

I am baffled as to why you have so many baffles.

 

[daytonians]

I don't have any kind of baffles in mine. The fuge is full of micro-bubbles, but I can't see how that hurts anything. The extra oxygen may even help in the breakdown of detrius. You just don't want bubbles going to the return pump section.

 

[aFs]

slower is always better....... if yourwater movement is to fast you will see some die off around 300 to 450 is a good mark for most

 

[daytonians]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8276127#post8276127 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aFs
slower is always better....... if yourwater movement is to fast you will see some die off around 300 to 450 is a good mark for most

Die off of what?

 

[pjf]

Water Flow More Important than Light

Water Flow More Important than Light

There is a series entitled “Water flow is more important for corals than light” in Advanced Aquarist:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/6/aafeature2/view
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/8/aafeature/view
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/9/aafeature2

In the 3rd installment, the author states: “if an aquarists provides very high light intensities but fails to deliver an equivalent water flow speed, instead of benefiting it is more likely that their corals will suffer from photoinhibition stress.”

The series continues next month with the 4th installment.

 

[Henry Bowman]

T Struck. I like your plan. The only suggestion is that for the price of the Tunze's you should do a closed loop with a manifold for circulation. The additional flow inside a reef display is critical. I have been following the above mentioned articles and the author backs up the data with data that makes sense. I also agree with your fuge flow rate.

 

[pjf]

Keep It Simple

Keep It Simple

Here are some suggestions on your sump/refugium design:

• Intake Compartment. With an external skimmer, you do not need a large intake compartment. My hang-on-tank skimmer only uses a 4” wide intake compartment.
• Refuge Compartment. For nitrate export, I recommend macro algae such as chaetomorpha. A DSB must be large to be effective so I keep my DSB in my display aquarium. This means you can simplify your baffles. For example, you only need one baffle between your intake and refuge compartments and water should flow underneath that baffle through the media holder. If the media is clogged, water can flow over the baffle.
• Lighting. I would not make the refuge compartment much wider than the PC light fixture. This fixture should rest directly on a 1/8” thick tempered glass cover. A Plexiglas cover will warp. A fixture with “legs” is unstable and wastes light.
• Constant Water Level. Only one baffle is needed to maintain a constant water level for your skimmer and refuge. I have only two baffles in my tank. Water flows underneath the first baffle to the refuge compartment but over the second baffle to the return compartment. This second baffle is the shorter one and sets the water level for both the intake and refuge compartments.
• Filter. To keep algae from spilling into the return compartment, I use a tall mesh tank divider that is propped up against a baffle. If your tank is made of Plexiglas, you may use a baffle with vertical slits or holes along the top. Alternatively, you may try placing bio-balls between two baffles. I don't see a need for three consecutive baffles.
• Return Compartment. Make this the largest compartment so you can use it for water changes. When making water changes, I shut off my pump and use my return compartment to mix the salt and to heat the solution before turning the pump back on. My return compartment occupies two-thirds of the tank. If it is too small, you are always topping it off to avoid running the pump dry. Placing the pump outside the tank is definitely the way to go. Don't forget a water level sensor to shut off the pump. In the cover over the return compartment, you can install a fan to cool the tank. My fan & heater are hooked to a 2-way controller.

 

[Thunderstruck]

Well, I am actually going to be scrapping this design due to the incompatibility with the skimmer. So now I have to make a new design. Any real benefits from keeping the sump serperate from the refugium? I guess I would perfer to put it inside like in this design if possible. However, now I will have more room to play with and more than likely place the skimmer inside the sump...

 

[tgfrench]

heres a pic of my 32 x 13 x 14

the sump area skimmer area 11 x 13
refug 14 x 9
return area 7 x 13

as been mentioned i wish i'd made the return area a lil larger.
i run a rio 1700 on my chiller with the return feeding the refug. (white pipes on wall) I figure i'm running around 450 gph through the refug. with overflow teeth keeping the cheto in place.
since this pic i've added a max 400 for more circulation i got a good amount of cyno buildup before adding the pump.
pods have spread through out the sump.

 

[pjf]

Hmmm...

Hmmm...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8282750#post8282750 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Thunderstruck
Well, I am actually going to be scrapping this design due to the incompatibility with the skimmer. So now I have to make a new design. Any real benefits from keeping the sump serperate from the refugium? I guess I would perfer to put it inside like in this design if possible. However, now I will have more room to play with and more than likely place the skimmer inside the sump...

The sump or intake compartment has to be partitioned from the refugium compartment to avoid having algae or other refugium contents sucked into the skimmer. As for placing the skimmer inside the sump or intake compartment, I friend of mine did that. His skimmer became so encrusted that he doesn't think he can remove it now.

 

[Dale Carlisle]

I have a low flow display/sump with a closed loop in the display for added circ. The flow through my sump is quite slow and is augmented in the refugium by a simple powerhead.
Here's a video of it in motion (click the pic):

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I use Gracelaria under a simple screw in CF bulb with good results. I originally tried Chaetomorpha but, for me, it didn't grow so well.
You may wish to avoid Calerpa sp. because, while they do grow fast, they can revert to a sexual form and spread spores throughout your system.
I also have my skimmer in the sump (seperate compartment).

Here's a pic of my sump layout:

The skimmer and refugium compartments are switched now. The long thin compartment at the back is an in sump RDSB.

 

[Thunderstruck]

All this input has been extreemly helpful thus far! Def. learning a lot here. Right now I have an ETSS 800 skimmer, but might chnage it. Trying to currentally weigh out the ballances between seperate fuge and sum,p, and the 2 in one deal (which would be easier). The thing is if I have the fuge in the sump, the skimmer I have now can only run in the 5 to 7 (at the most) inch of water range. I am having a hard time figuring out how I will be able to build an effective fuge with this limitations. I cant raise the skimmer because it must fit under the cabnet. If I did keep the ETS 800 I would run it externall, however I am thinking about a bubbleking 250 internal. That would still put me at 9-11 inches, but I could probably raise it up a little to give me a little high flow. Starting to get a bit tricky. It their anyway I could put the fuge in the sump and have a much higher water level in the fuge then the skimmer comparment?