mesenterial filaments from my mille

Arkayology

Arkayology

Active member
I picked up a nice colony of green mille from a local and put it in my tank. It is doing ok, no color loss and is growing a bit, but is showing very minimal and scattered polyp extension. I am also getting a lot of mesenterial filaments coming out of the mid and end parts of the coral. It is not even having PE at night, while most of my SPS are. This is pretty much a constant day/night thing with the mille. Not sure what to make of it. It has been in the tank for about 2 months now and came from a tank with LEDs (I use a Radion). I tried giving it more flow, but that seemed to just make more mesenterial filaments come out. It is located in a medium light part of the tank right below the stream of water that an mp10 makes, so it is getting flow but not direct. The closest coral is about 3 inches away.

Not having any other problems with my SPS, so I am not thinking it is water quality issues:
sg- 1.025
po4- 0 (hannah meter)
Nitrate and Nitrite- 0
ammonia- 0
Ca- 400
Alk- 8.6
I dose b-ionic two part via two BRS dosers on a controller at about 20ml a day of both. Things are pretty constant in the tank with an ATO. I am running biopellets and carbon and skim heavily, but I feed heavily as well so I don't know if it is a nutrient thing? Any thoughts on things I could try? I am thinking of lowering my alk slowly to see if that has any effect, though I don't want to mess with the water chemistry too much as the rest of my SPS are doing well.
 
Have you checked in with your alk a few days in a row to make sure it's stable?

Sometimes I've found it can take much longer for a colony to adjust to a new tank, some never make the change and just slowly die.

If you feed the fish does it make it worse?
 
In my opinion acontia (mesenterial) filaments in Acropora species are directly related to feeding. I constantly have acontia filaments on an Acropora valida and an an Acropora millepora that are immediately next to each other. It is an aggression issue. The exact same corals in other places in the tank might get very insignificant acontia filaments, but not nearly as much as these two that are about to touch. Sometimes these filaments can be several inches long; its insane.

It could be that the Acropora that you recently acquired was conditioned to elicit an aggressive response during feeding. It could be that it was in very close proximity to other Acros in the other tank and was constantly fighting for food/space. It could also be that it just feels the need to defend itself now in your tank.

If it is immediately next to another coral it will likely keep doing it during feeding as an aggressive posture to vie for space in your tank. It may also tend to do it less and less if it has plenty of space as it becomes conditioned to your parameters and adapts to not needing to waste the energy of expelling the acontia.

I wouldn't worry about the light or flow; it is an aggression issue which usually happens during feeding. If you are having other issues it might be something else causing this response, but if your other Acros look good and everything is testing within parameters then I am sticking to simple aggression.

Here is a good article that explains this in greater detail.
http://www.augsburg.edu/home/biology/aquaria/SpecialTopicsFiles/sps_AcropPurpMonst_Growth.html

Hope that helps!
Ed
 
IMG_0926.jpg

There are no flatworms or red bugs in the tank. I check about every week. The closest acro is about 1.5-2'' away from the mille. I am thinking about moving the mille because lately it is loosing a little bit of color and browning out. It may want more light. I don't know if that is directly related to the filaments however.

For those who have experienced this from acros, if this is a feeding/aggression response, is this a problem that I should/can deal with? What about the poor PE? A result of the filaments?
 
My green mille is in the same boat. Ive been feeding more and that seems to make it a bit better. Still have no idea what the cause is i hope we can figure this out.
 
After looking at the pic I am leaning towards it being an issue from the BioPellets. The tissue has that appearance as though the water is too stripped out (too low of nutrient). Maybe the filaments are coming out as an aggressive response for the food, but the coral has that appearance of low density zooxanthellae...like the tissue looks "thin." Just my observation. Where does your BioPellet reactor dump out? It needs to dump immediately into your skimmer.

It could also be an aggression response toward another coral that is fighting chemically with it. Do you have any chalices or leathers in the tank? Maybe it was not used to having to combat against chemical aggressors and is now extending the filaments trying to fight whatever is offending it.

Last, but least likely possibility is that it has a bacterial infection, which is causing the "thin" appearance to the tissue. You could try a weak Lugol's dip and see where that gets you.

I don't think its a lighting or flow thing....it seems like something else at play here. I could be wrong though. If it came from an LED only tank I doubt the lighting is the problem, though you never know.

No, I do not think it is bugs/flatworms.

Hope that helps,
Ed
 
Moser said:
What do you do to test for flatworms?.

Thanks
Mo
Click to expand...

Mo,
You look at the base and (typically) on the underside of branches/ between branches for small white bite marks. You are looking for flatworms that will likely be tan in color, but can also somewhat mimic the color of the tissue.

If your eyes are not the best you need to get a mesoscope.

-Ed
 
acro-ed said:
After looking at the pic I am leaning towards it being an issue from the BioPellets. The tissue has that appearance as though the water is too stripped out (too low of nutrient). Maybe the filaments are coming out as an aggressive response for the food, but the coral has that appearance of low density zooxanthellae...like the tissue looks "thin." Just my observation. Where does your BioPellet reactor dump out? It needs to dump immediately into your skimmer.

It could also be an aggression response toward another coral that is fighting chemically with it. Do you have any chalices or leathers in the tank? Maybe it was not used to having to combat against chemical aggressors and is now extending the filaments trying to fight whatever is offending it.

Last, but least likely possibility is that it has a bacterial infection, which is causing the "thin" appearance to the tissue. You could try a weak Lugol's dip and see where that gets you.

I don't think its a lighting or flow thing....it seems like something else at play here. I could be wrong though. If it came from an LED only tank I doubt the lighting is the problem, though you never know.

No, I do not think it is bugs/flatworms.

Hope that helps,
Ed
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response Ed. My BP reactor dumps out right into the intake of my skimmer. It may be a nutrient thing, though I feed pretty heavily and have 8 fish in the 60 cube now. I may take the biopellets offline and see what happens? As far as a chemical response, there are only leathers and zoas in the tank. I am not sure if it is a chemical thing, though I do run carbon so I would hope that helps out some.

The colony has been in there for about 2 months now and might be losing just a little bit of color. Not sure what to make of it as I have other millies who are as hairy as Cousin It. I have never had much luck with PE on certain SPS in my tanks though, so who knows.
 
I had an acro that had a similar appearance even though the others around it looked great. I finally realized it tended to look worse every time my large toadstool shed. I replaced the carbon (I only use a fairly small amount) and in a couple weeks time it really perked up.

The problem is that if it is a low nutrient issue and you run more carbon it could make it worse, not better. What type of skimmer do you have? Would you say it is really oversized for the tank?

As far as taking the BioPellets offline, I don't have any experience with it. I have seen some problems with using it, so I haven't gone down that path. I feel like the bacteria in the tank should find an equilibrium on its own...I don't see the point. Nevertheless, taking them off cold turkey might be a bad idea....maybe remove a little bit at a time and see if things improve. If I were you I would do some research on doing so.

-Ed
 
acro-ed said:
Mo,
You look at the base and (typically) on the underside of branches/ between branches for small white bite marks. You are looking for flatworms that will likely be tan in color, but can also somewhat mimic the color of the tissue.

If your eyes are not the best you need to get a mesoscope.

-Ed
Click to expand...

Thanks Ed,

Milles, sometimes don't show the bite marks. They can respond by showing mesentarial filaments and I have seen this on several large mille colonies in the past. They then drop colour and retract polyps, before stripping.

Tan on Tan is then sometimes difficult to spot and basting or dipping can help.

Luckily, my vision is better than 20/20. :fun4:

Wouldn't severe nutrient issues due to pellets affect most of the corals, not just one?.

Mo
 
Last edited:
Mo- It would but this coral is from another different tank; grown out and then transferred to Matt's tank. As far as I know the guy who grew it doesn't use BP.
 
Exactly. What 29reef is explaining is that the coral was accustomed to certain conditions and is now stressed due to some environmental factor. I am leaning towards the BP, but I can't be certain.

I know it can be hard to see flatworms on the some milles and on some other acros, but the bite marks will be there. The mesoscope is definitely a good way to go. I don't have one, but a buddy does, and you would be blown away by what you can see with it.

At any rate, his other corals are used to the nutrient depleted environment (assuming that is what is going on) and that is why they don't show stress. I would wager that the others have a more pastel colored look to them, though I guess it would depend on what specimens are in there.

I have been weary of the BioPellets from the inception, and I don't understand why the tank wouldn't slowly harbor enough bacteria until it is stable with the bioload that is present. As long as you increase bioload slowly and have enough surface area for the bacteria to colonize, there will be stability within the system. There are certain times where using BP makes sense to me, i.e. in a public aquarium with a huge bioload and no actual "rock," but not in a small reef system where we use porous rock and have reasonable bioload. Just my $0.02 though.

SoCalDude, can we see a pic of some of your other acros?

Hope you get it figured out; it will look very nice once you get it totally happy again.

-Ed
 
acro-ed said:
Exactly. What 29reef is explaining is that the coral was accustomed to certain conditions and is now stressed due to some environmental factor. I am leaning towards the BP, but I can't be certain.

-Ed
Click to expand...

Aren't all corals accustomed to different conditions, before you put them in your tank?. Why don't I see this reaction when I add new corals?... If it was that, then I guess it's just a matter of waiting it out?....

Mo
 
SoCal...

I'm with Mo...try to put this coral in a recipient with melafix (5ml/l) and blast with a little powerhead...for 10 minutes.

Bite marks in millies are very difficult to see. Millies are aefw magnets and react to AEFW infestation with poor polyp extension...and loosing the color slowly. Your millie doesn't seems to be colorfull and the polyp extension doesn't seems acceptable for a millie in my opinion.

Melafix isn't harsh with corals....Why not try?

Good luck

Hails from Brazil

D.
 
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