Metal halide bulb for icecap ballast

[likefish]

I am 100% new to metal halides.

I have a 120 SPS reef lit with 4T5bulbs and ecoxotic LED RB strips. I have good growth and have been sucessful but I lack color. The majority of my coral are a bit brown. Parameters are spot on and stable. Alk 7.5 Ca 450 Mag 1550

I have always known i was a bit low on lighting and found a set of 250W single end MH fixtures for cheap that I want to try out

i am looking for bulb recommendations for old-school icecap ballasts.

As this is a 6-9 month test I would like to do it right but there are so many choices with MH bulbs. Pheonix 14k or Radium 20K seem the standard.

is there another option? Less expensive?

I intend to mount the MH fixtures 12"above tank.

i will be supplementing with 4T5 ATi Blue+ and the RB LED.

Thank you for suggestions and advice!!

 

[likefish]

The tank:

 

[acrohead500ppm]

Radiums need an M80 ballast to really get the results that causes everyone to rave about them.
For your ballasts I would look into using XM's or maybe reeflux bulbs.

Stay away from eurobulbs (radium, ushio, AB) they will all have cruddy performance on electronic ballasts

 

[alton]

Electronic Ballast are fine, just pick a lamp and use it. Pulse Start lamps match electronic better. Phoenix and Radium are both Pulse Start.

 

[acrohead500ppm]

Electronic Ballast are fine, just pick a lamp and use it. Pulse Start lamps match electronic better. Phoenix and Radium are both Pulse Start.

Completely incorrect. You should probably read Sanjays write up

 

[likefish]

Radiums need an M80 ballast to really get the results that causes everyone to rave about them.
For your ballasts I would look into using XM's or maybe reeflux bulbs.

Stay away from eurobulbs (radium, ushio, AB) they will all have cruddy performance on electronic ballasts

Are the Hamilton 20K or 14K a viable option with the icecap ballast?

 

[ReefWreak]

How much of an impact do your Ecoxotic lights contribute to the overall look? If they add a lot of blue, I would recommend an XM 10k, if medium amount of blue, then Reeflux 10k, if not at all, Reeflux 12K or Hamilton 14k.

I've run Radiums on the (relatively) old 250w IceCap ballasts (2009ish?, metal finned housing) and it looked nice and blue, and I still had great growth and color so I don't hesitate to recommend it. It's not optimal since the bulbs are designed for HQI at 250w and lower power at 400w, but if you don't run them exactly the same, they're not bad. They'll just be blue for the 250w being underdriven (they are HQI bulbs, so should be run ~300w or more?) or whiter for the 400w because they're designed for less than 400w.

 

[acrohead500ppm]

Are the Hamilton 20K or 14K a viable option with the icecap ballast?

That would be a great choice
Like others said now you just need to decide between the two, If you have the ability to ramp up the blue on your LED I would go with the 14k as you can always add more blue if you want via adjusting your LEDs.

 

[alton]

Completely incorrect. You should probably read Sanjays write up

Lets call this Alton's write up? Radium lamps for me last 16 to 18 months average on coral vue electronic ballast. I change my lamps when they drop 10%. One lasted only 1 year but I did have one go 24 months. I constantly check my lamps with PAR and Foot candle meters. I have 3 x 250 watt on a 300DD with mini lumen bright pendants with an average reading of 200 to 250 PAR on the sand.

 

[acrohead500ppm]

Nice scientific write up there chief. Ask anyone on RC what the best ballast to use with euro pluse start bulbs. pretty much 99% of the answers will be m80 mag ballasts

 

[jaybfresh]

Nice scientific write up there chief. Ask anyone on RC what the best ballast to use with euro pluse start bulbs. pretty much 99% of the answers will be m80 mag ballasts

That's a childish response. Plenty of people run Radium bulbs with an e-ballast, though you take a big PAR hit by doing so as they are designed to be overdriven. I would personally say it's not worth the money for a Radium bulb with an e-ballast since a Phoenix bulb looks similar, and is cheaper

 

[acrohead500ppm]

That's a childish response. Plenty of people run Radium bulbs with an e-ballast, though you take a big PAR hit by doing so as they are designed to be overdriven. I would personally say it's not worth the money for a Radium bulb with an e-ballast since a Phoenix bulb looks similar, and is cheaper

childish?? Sorry I didn't mean to offend Dr. Alton.

But the guy was saying radiums were made to be run on an electronic ballast, which is completely bogus.

Thank you for bringing to the table that running radiums on E- ballasts is not only pointless, but expensive too.

 

[alton]

Radium Lamps just like Phoenix, and Reeflux are meant to run on Pulse Start ballast. The Op asked if he can run Phoenix or Radium on an electronic ballast, you said no. I said he could and gave my examples. Is the light output as much as an M80 no, but at the same time the M80 draws more power to accomplish this. For pricing I pay the same whether it is Phoenix or Radium from my local LFS. Online Hamilton Technology for a radium is $79 and a phoenix from aquacave is $79. I only paid $59 for a DE Phoenix a year ago but I understand they are discontinued, so this time I went with a Ushio 10K on my office tank on a CoralVue Dimming Ballast. On my 300 at home at this time I am using two Phoenix and one Radium. I have asked others to pick out which lamp is which and they cannot tell the difference. At this time I would like to apologize to the OP for creating an argument.

 

[acrohead500ppm]

Radium Lamps just like Phoenix, and Reeflux are meant to run on Pulse Start ballast. The Op asked if he can run Phoenix or Radium on an electronic ballast, you said no. I said he could and gave my examples. Is the light output as much as an M80 no, but at the same time the M80 draws more power to accomplish this. For pricing I pay the same whether it is Phoenix or Radium from my local LFS. Online Hamilton Technology for a radium is $79 and a phoenix from aquacave is $79. I only paid $59 for a DE Phoenix a year ago but I understand they are discontinued, so this time I went with a Ushio 10K on my office tank on a CoralVue Dimming Ballast. On my 300 at home at this time I am using two Phoenix and one Radium. I have asked others to pick out which lamp is which and they cannot tell the difference. At this time I would like to apologize to the OP for creating an argument.

Maybe you should apologize to me for trying to put words in my mouth.

Below is my original response to the OP, can you show me where I said he CANNOT use radiums or Phoenix bulbs? ????

I simply told him radiums need M80 ballasts to get the best results, I didn't say he couldn't run them,
I also didn't mention Phoenix at all when I was talking euro bulbs/ m80 ballasts either

Radiums need an M80 ballast to really get the results that causes everyone to rave about them.
For your ballasts I would look into using XM's or maybe reeflux bulbs.

Stay away from eurobulbs (radium, ushio, AB) they will all have cruddy performance on electronic ballasts

Again trying to put words in my mouth?? That really grinds my gears dude.

SO

Basically, you are wrong and were the whole time, where as I was in the right, the whole time.
Thanks for playing

 

[alton]

telling someone they will have cruddy performance is telling them they do not use, when I showed I get great results. Also Ushio 250w SE and XM are both probe start lamps, Radium is Pulse start. So placing Ushio and Radium together is, I know you are right the whole time

 

[acrohead500ppm]

telling someone they will have cruddy performance is telling them they do not use, when I showed I get great results. Also Ushio 250w SE and XM are both probe start lamps, Radium is Pulse start. So placing Ushio and Radium together is, I know you are right the whole time

Wrong again,

Ushio's are pulse start buddy, and where did I claim XM's weren't probe start????

http://www.ushio.com/products/aquarium/aqualite.php


Thats fine you got "great results" running radiums on E-ballasts, however for most people that is asinine considering you would get much better performance out of bulbs that are much cheaper than radiums.

I usually don't drag things on this long, but the fact you tried to put words in my mouth got me a bit frustrated, that and the fact you are making completely incorrect statements as they are a matter of fact without any evidence backing it up??

Come on Dr. Alton, do as I said in the beginning OTT

Read Sanjays write up on bulb/ ballast combinations and his findings, or you can continue making outrageously incorrect statements about lighting.

LOL @ back where you replied "lets call this altons write up" Like you were going to school me in metal halide bulbs and ballasts, :lolspin:

 

[alton]

The Ushio Spec Sheet on 175w they list M-137 Pulse Start, 250w M58 Probe Start, 400 they list lamps for both M59 Probe Start and M 137 Pulse Start. The Op wants to use 250watt, I did not mean in any way to make you mad but I have been using electronic ballast since 2004 and have had great results with several lamps. Too many times I hear Radium lamps run poorly and will not last as long on electronic ballast, which is simply not true. Once again I am sorry if I stepped on your toes I hope this ends the competition on who's right and who's wrong. If we all agreed on everything this forum would get boring.

 

[acrohead500ppm]

The Ushio Spec Sheet on 175w they list M-137 Pulse Start, 250w M58 Probe Start, 400 they list lamps for both M59 Probe Start and M 137 Pulse Start. The Op wants to use 250watt, I did not mean in any way to make you mad but I have been using electronic ballast since 2004 and have had great results with several lamps. Too many times I hear Radium lamps run poorly and will not last as long on electronic ballast, which is simply not true. Once again I am sorry if I stepped on your toes I hope this ends the competition on who's right and who's wrong. If we all agreed on everything this forum would get boring.

Maybe I was a bit wrong on the Ushios.

However you saying that radiums wont run poorly on electronic ballasts is not true and that is a widely known fact.

Will they last longer on E ballasts? yes because they are being under driven

Like stated before, will you take a huge hit in PAR ? yes, would you be alot better off using a different bulb on E-ballasts?? yes
Are you wasting your money? yes