MHs, LEDs and Zoanthids.

[MUCHO REEF]

With the increased popular in LEDs that we see sweeping over the hobby and more specifically as it relates to zoa/paly keepers, I have to ask this question. Have you or are you considering the transition away from MHs to LEDs? It maybe to decrease energy cost and cosumption, coloration, overall cost etc, are MHs becoming passe relative to zoa and paly keeping?

Yes, no, why?


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073768


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

 

[A. Grandis]

Metal halides are definitely the closest you could get to sun light overall IMO and therefore the best option to keep zoas in captivity! Of all the lights I've had in the past my 250W MH / NO fluorescent actinic blue combo were the best for the zoas. Never experience any of the LEDs, but many say the same. Hard for me to tell because I've never had LEDs.

I prefer the uniformity of the fluorescent bulbs than LEDs. Besides, the initial cost of the LEDs are just too much.

Recently I've seen people complaining about the LEDs having lost some of it's intensity. That's not a good thing when you buy the LEDs to avoid change the T5s every year!!!

I'm sticking with the T5s now instead the MHs because of the heat and the HO T5s do a great gob!!
Let's see what others will post.
Hope hear from people with the experiences on both sides.

Thanks for the link. I'll read on later...
Good subject!!

Grandis.

 

[rogersb]

I will find out soon. I bought a 210g tank this spring and this weekend finally got all the equipment I think I need. That includes 3 leds from apollo reef but I will also be running vho because they came with the tank. That probably will make any results I have void of difinitive good/bad that leds do because of the hybrid system, but seeing as I'm only using 2 vho bulbs they are not going to be a major issue for growth I don't think.

 

[lhm nole]

I have had Zoas/palys under all 3 three and best results were with mh and leds.. Color was better under halides but growth imo so far has been better under leds

 

[speer]

I've been struggling with getting my LEDs dialed in so that my zoas flourish like they did under T5s. They are surviving but not thriving if you know what I mean.

 

[slin1977]

My opinion is that of all "coral" we keep zoas seem to respond the most to LED.
Since LED are narrow light bandwidth zoas can be kept under blue light 450 to 470 nm.
Growth of SPS is better under halide and T5. This may be due to the broad spectrum found in MH. I believe that near UV and UV produced by MH is of importance to our coral.
I run near UV LEDs in my set up and can extract and maintain colours in my SPS.
Zoas are very easy to keep and propogate under LED and I would say better than MH in this case.

 

[gbru316]

double post, deleted

 

[gbru316]

Light sources are all equally capable of growing coral. The issue comes down to finding the "sweet spot." This is far easier with both MH and T5, but certainly not unobtainable with LED.

If one is looking for a quick, easy solution, they aren't going to find it yet with LED. Perhaps in a few more years, but it's currently hard to beat both MH and T5, especially without spending an arm and a leg.

Here are some normal eagle eyes under LED, white balance adjusted:

Same frag, picture adjusted to look closer to how they look in person:

I've had the frag for about 2 weeks and have noticed 2 new buds already.

 

[Reverend Reefer]

i went from T5s to LEDs. the colors looks great under the LEDs, HOWEVER, i have to admit, i didn't get growth after several months of pure LEDs. so now i just added a single T5 back with an ATI Blue+ in the hopes that i could get some back.

i do also agree, without getting too technical, that not all LEDs are the same and i truly believe this may be part of where the confusion lies since we're sortof comparing apples to oranges when we say LEDs. regardless, the main point to bring home from my experience is:

1. I started out with T5s, supplemented with ReefBrite LEDs, moved to all ReefBrite LEDs, still didn't have enough growth, added more to the point that i had 4 ReefBrite LED strips, still didn't get growth, added 2 Par38 LED bulbs, still didn't get growth, and finally just added a single T5 strip. we'll see what happens now....

2. maybe there are other factors to consider.... a) i have kindof a deepish tank 24" tall. so maybe the LEDs weren't penetrating enough. b) maybe the reefbrites aren't as good as a DIY setup? c) maybe there's some other reason why i'm not getting growth? like poor husbandry? who knows. my tank's been up for around 5-6 yrs or so, its mainly a softies and LPS so who knows...

Current Lights:
1. 4x48" ReefBrite LED strips
2. 2x Par38 bulbs (full spectrum)
3. 1x48" 54W T5HO ATI Blue+ (recently added)

 

[Reverend Reefer]

just to add, the other thing to consider with my setup is that the reefbrites don't have all those other fancy things that new LED setups have like violets, greens, and reds. the ones i have only have blue and white leds. my full spectrum Par38s do have those colors but i only have 2 of those Par38 bulbs... so that might also be another factor to consider since my zoas aren't growing and thriving like they did under my T5 setup which had several Blue+, Fiji Pink, and a some 10K bulb....

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hello Rev and thanks for sharing that. Me personally, I'm just not sold on LEDs as a primary lighting source just yet. I agree, all aren't the same, some better than others. I still prefer a combination of 250 DE MH with T5 acitnic supplementation for dusk/dawn affect.


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

 

[Jarred1]

I have all three lighting setups and can say that certain zoas do better under different lighting. I have some zoas that are growing like wild fire under leds and the same with halides. I actually just set up a tank to test stuff out to see what the different zoas like.

Jarred

 

[Biocubehqi]

I have to keep my Rastas and my fruit loops in a cave because my mh was burning them up n the sandbed....

 

[gbru316]

I have all three lighting setups and can say that certain zoas do better under different lighting. I have some zoas that are growing like wild fire under leds and the same with halides. I actually just set up a tank to test stuff out to see what the different zoas like.

Jarred

That's a result of the design of the light fixture itself, not of the light.

A photon is a photon, regardless of source. A photon at 420 nm produced by LED is EXACTLY the same as a photon at 420 nm produced by MH. There is absolutely no difference. An LED light fixture that exactly mimics the output of iwasaki 14k MH bulb in both spectral distribution and intensity will have the exact same effect on coral.

The difference comes from the spectral distribution and intensity of the lighting sources, which is a function of design and engineering. THIS is where the LED issues come from, not from the light itself.

 

[eg8r210]

With the increased popular in LEDs that we see sweeping over the hobby and more specifically as it relates to zoa/paly keepers, I have to ask this question. Have you or are you considering the transition away from MHs to LEDs? It maybe to decrease energy cost and cosumption, coloration, overall cost etc, are MHs becoming passe relative to zoa and paly keeping?

Yes, no, why?


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1073768


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

Yep, I have thought about it but I don't have the guts to make the transition. I have such good growth in the tank now that I don't want to mess with it. Heck, for the past year and a half I have been using the cheapy ebay mh bulbs and everything has been great. My ballast took a dump and I got some electronic ballasts and switched to phoenix bulbs and that was scary enough (I prefer the more white color than these 14k bulbs). I have no idea how this is going to work out and was surprised to see how much more blue these bulbs were than the cheapy ones when both were 14k.

I would like the cost savings that come with going with LED but just don't have the guts.

eg8r210
Never had a TOTM

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Hey Jarrod, thanks, and let us know the results when you do.

gbru316, good stuff man, thanks.

eg8r210, I don't think you need guts. If what you are using is doing the job adequately, why bother with switching ? Those phoenix bulbs are awsome BTW so I wouldn't even sweat it if I were you.


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

 

[dailykos]

I have a 55-gallon, one Ecotech Radion at 50% intensity about 6" above the water. In four months:

9 polyps of Rastas, now 18.
6 polyps of Mary Janes, now 25.
4 polyps of Candy Apple Reds, now 15
6 polyps of Fire and Ice, now 15
4 polyps of Eagle Eyes, now around 30
In six months, a 2-polyp frag of Sour Apples is 50 or so polyps and expanding TOO aggressively.

There's more, but you get the idea. The only zoa/palys that don't want to grow in my tank are People Eaters. I've got green, red, and purple, and all three are barely hanging on.

I never ran MH on my saltwater tank, so I can't compare the two. Heck, my growth might even be slower than the norm. I'm too new at this to have the proper context. But as far as I'm concerned, my Radion at half-power is growing things just fine. Heck, even my birdsnests are growing like crazy, and that's with super dirty water. I've been running phosphates at around 0.2-0.4 for pretty much the entire year and things have been fine. (Lots of leaching from live rock, and I didn't see much difference when I ran GFO so I stopped using it.)

I know, I know ... pictures or it didn't happen. Someday I'll get on that.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I have a 55-gallon, one Ecotech Radion at 50% intensity about 6" above the water. In four months:

9 polyps of Rastas, now 18.
6 polyps of Mary Janes, now 25.
4 polyps of Candy Apple Reds, now 15
6 polyps of Fire and Ice, now 15
4 polyps of Eagle Eyes, now around 30
In six months, a 2-polyp frag of Sour Apples is 50 or so polyps and expanding TOO aggressively.

There's more, but you get the idea. The only zoa/palys that don't want to grow in my tank are People Eaters. I've got green, red, and purple, and all three are barely hanging on.

I never ran MH on my saltwater tank, so I can't compare the two. Heck, my growth might even be slower than the norm. I'm too new at this to have the proper context. But as far as I'm concerned, my Radion at half-power is growing things just fine. Heck, even my birdsnests are growing like crazy, and that's with super dirty water. I've been running phosphates at around 0.2-0.4 for pretty much the entire year and things have been fine. (Lots of leaching from live rock, and I didn't see much difference when I ran GFO so I stopped using it.)

I know, I know ... pictures or it didn't happen. Someday I'll get on that.

Hey that's great, but don't be concerned whether your growth is good or bad. This has been the downfall of many reefers in the past. The goal in reefing is growth and that is what you have. Don't compare it to anyone's growth. When some didn't receive the polyp growth others did, they went messing with their tank and crashed it, killed their corals or what growth they had.....stopped. Rememeber my friend, no two systems are a like and never compare your growth rate with anyone else. You are obviously doing something right, so I say great job man, great job. Just document what you're doing and continue to do that.

BTW, don't get sucked into that trap of buying a camera to take pictures to prove to anyone what you're saying. You stated what happened, I believe it, enough said and I can take your word for that. Much continued success man, you have the blue thumb.:thumbsup:

Good luck my friend, again, awesome job.


MUCHO REEF
TOTM - August 2003

 

[Chriskid]

I have to keep my Rastas and my fruit loops in a cave because my mh was burning them up n the sandbed....

thats interesting, i think all corals just need to ajust....slowly. those to kinds are in my reef 3inchs from the waterline right under a 250wushio.

 

[Chriskid]

and from what ive seen (im not an led guy) those Ecotech Radions are all ive accualy seen corals grow,so far. nice fixture. but im a MH fan with t5 blues