Mhucasey's SPS obsession

[mhucasey]

On the imbalance--

I would stop dosing the Strontium as corals have the ability to use it in place of calcium.................this may be why you see some spurts but not consistent growth.

I'm no chemist, but in layman terms, the Strontium ions can bind and negate or take the place of the calcium ion connection and that's why you have an over abundance of calcium.

High Mg can also do the same thing.....leaving an abundance of calcium in relation to alk, but Mg doesn't get used up nowhere near as fast and exasperates the issue.

I'm sure your calcium reactor is providing plenty of Mg and Sr on it's own.

I'd eliminate the dosing of coral B as it contains carbonates and calcium too.

See the below answer regarding Strontium and Calcium reactors, ive seen this confirmed elsewhere as well. Coral B is inert calcium Carbonate powder made into a slurry(Basically the same as coral snow from Zeovit). It doesn't affect Calcium or Alkalinity at all, but even so I haven't been using it much lately anyway.

Do AF give any specific recommendations in regards to those running a calcium reactor with their products Matt ?

It is always prudent to REDUCE dosing of stuff when in doubt rather than to start adding other stuff for unknown water problems mate, Big E is offering wise advice imo.

Yes, they do:
Supplement contains concentrated strontium. Strontium, beside calcium and magnesium, is the one most important trace elements in natural sea water where its concentration is about 8ppm. It is strongly assimilated along with calcium in both the coral skeletons and shells of marine invertebrates. According to our research ratio of Ca: Sr dissolved from calcium reactors is below normal levels taken out by corals during calcification. Additional supplementation is necessary and linked with rapid coral growth.
This was confirmed by ReefVet as well.
I only add a tiny amount of strontium compared to the standard dose of 1drop/100L/Day. I have no problem dropping dosing but I dont think that Strontium has anything to do with my imbalance.

I have only added some alkalinity two-part solution to try to balance calcium and alkalinity a bit more at this time.

 

[Piper27]

I agree, stopping the dosing of strontium helped things start to recover and regain new normal growth this time, I was also dosing a small amount extra. Last time I think it was magnesium from what I remember. Pretty sure I wrote my experience in the thread I posted. Either way stopping dosing won't hurt anything for you and only helps cut out things that could be causing the problem although if you want to find out exactly what's wrong obviously doing what your doing is best so you can pinpoint it.

Thanks for the link discusheckel, I will have to reread this one again.

Now post those damn dragon pictures man! . I got one that's orange with yellow tips. Love it!

 

[mhucasey]

Hi Matt,

Have a look at this article written by Randy if you have spare time. It explains the point made by Ed.

Yes, I read that, and I generally agree that Magnesium is taking the place of calcium and therefore the calcium levels rise and the system goes out of balance, also the initial formation of nitrate removes alkalinity from the system.

I actually read that article carefully in regards to this a few days ago. My frustration centers around my inability to get the Magnesium level down below 1500 without changing water. I will do that now since 5 months of waiting haven't seen that level drop. Perhaps the ReBorn CaRX media contains a large amount of magnesium, or something else is going on. I haven't added much Strontium and Coral B wont affect these things, so I don't have much choice but to change some water. Not a big deal really, i got 4 1/2 months of use out of this batch.

 

[mhucasey]

I agree, stopping the dosing of strontium helped things start to recover and regain new normal growth this time. Last time I think it was magnesium from what I remember. Pretty sure I wrote my experience in the thread I posted.

Thanks for the link discusheckel, I will have to reread this one again.

Now post those damn dragon pictures man! . I got one that's orange with yellow tips. Love it!

Yep its the Magnesium, but not just the level, but the level when Calcium and Alkalinity are unbalanced. I have been stuck at work till late each day this week, i will take some pics of the dragons and the new corals tonight, junkie!:lolspin:

 

[JB NY]

Questions for Kevin...
I did some tests last night on the big three:
Ca: 470
Mg: 1510
KH: 6.7
:mad2:
The imbalance in these elements continues, even though I am using a Calcium reactor and not dosing Magnesium. The result is bubbling at the tips of many corals and reduced growth overall. I added some Alkalinity part of the two part to bring it up some to 7.3, and it seemed to lower the Calcium levels to 450. I've waited for the magnesium level to drop with no success.
To combat the bubbling(calcite formation in the tips), I could use some help.
I will perform some water changing to attempt to reduce Magnesium.
Should I reduce the lighting duration?
Am I on the right track with bumping up the Alkalinity?
Are there other actions I should take?

What I have done many time is turn down the Ca reactor to almost nothing, just so you have some effluent coming out, just to keep some circulation going. Then dose alk only for a while and keep testing while the Ca gets to where you want, then dose alk and Ca (calcium chloride) till the Mg comes down, then turn the ca reactor back on.

I would shoot for 430-450 Ca and 1400 Mg.

 

[mhucasey]

What I have done many time is turn down the Ca reactor to almost nothing, just so you have some effluent coming out, just to keep some circulation going. Then dose alk only for a while and keep testing while the Ca gets to where you want, then dose alk and Ca (calcium chloride) till the Mg comes down, then turn the ca reactor back on.

I would shoot for 430-450 Ca and 1400 Mg.

Have you seen the same issue with Magnesium and Calcium rising vs Alk? Your approach is sound but what a PITA!

 

[JB NY]

Have you seen the same issue with Magnesium and Calcium rising vs Alk? Your approach is sound but what a PITA!

It is a pain. Works perfectly though.

The main times I have had it was mostly due to my own mistakes, dosing something that had Mg or Ca inadvertently, or for me more common was having too much of one element when mixing up water changes, and not catching it till later on.

Another thought is it could be a problem with the reactor media, I had that happen one time a while ago. I just couldn't get the numbers to line up, put in new media and everything snapped back in place.

It's not as big of a pain as you would think. after a few days you will get to see what you consumption rates of alk/ca/mg are and you can not test as often, just when you think you are getting close to your mark.

 

[gdemos]

On this topic any recent triton or other lab tests run on various media & CaCo3 reactor effluent?


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[mhucasey]

On this topic any recent triton or other lab tests run on various media & CaCo3 reactor effluent?


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Thats a good question, I haven't searched to see if anyone had.

 

[mhucasey]

Here are some dragons, as requested:

Rainbow Dragon:

Aqua Dragon:

Yellow Dragon:

My itty bitty Red Dragon grown from 1/4" tip of the branch I saved:

Queen Dragon:

Mr Pacman:

Unknown:

 

[mhucasey]

And some general Coral Pics and FTS:

Cinderella Acro Getting the tip color back after Potassium went too low:

New Flame Tip(Got this today):

Bali Shortcake:

 

[reefmutt]

Nice, Matt! I'm getting dragon envy...
Isn't it nice when you add a new rock? Suddenly, there is all this new real estate begging to be filled up with acros.
I see you obliged!
I'm using Reborn, as well, and my mag has always been on the high side...
I think I'll top up my reactor with A.R.M. just to mix things up..

 

[Myka]

Ya, those are some sweet Dragons!!! I'm liking the Bali Shortcake too.

Matt, if I were you I would be trying some different CaRx media, and continue the alkalinity supplement whie you're waiting for Ca and Mg to drop. It sounds like the media has really high magnesium, or at least too much magnesium for your system. You're not adding any other Mg source are you?

 

[mhucasey]

Nice, Matt! I'm getting dragon envy...
Isn't it nice when you add a new rock? Suddenly, there is all this new real estate begging to be filled up with acros.
I see you obliged!
I'm using Reborn, as well, and my mag has always been on the high side...
I think I'll top up my reactor with A.R.M. just to mix things up..

Ya, those are some sweet Dragons!!! I'm liking the Bali Shortcake too.

Matt, if I were you I would be trying some different CaRx media, and continue the alkalinity supplement whie you're waiting for Ca and Mg to drop. It sounds like the media has really high magnesium, or at least too much magnesium for your system. You're not adding any other Mg source are you?

I do love the dragons, the fine branched corals are some of my favorite. Mindy, the magnesium value has dropped maybe 50ppm since adding the reactor in December, so essentially it seems like if I can get the value back to around 1350 it may just hold there. That would be great. Reborn is made from Acro skeletons, there isn't any added magnesium. I do have some ARM though so I will switch out some of the media if that theory doesn't hold true.

 

[RBKKREEF]

Nice!!! Super cool to watch your reef fill out since adding the second tank. I'm sure it looks even better in person keep up the great work!

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[Myka]

I do love the dragons, the fine branched corals are some of my favorite. Mindy, the magnesium value has dropped maybe 50ppm since adding the reactor in December, so essentially it seems like if I can get the value back to around 1350 it may just hold there. That would be great. Reborn is made from Acro skeletons, there isn't any added magnesium. I do have some ARM though so I will switch out some of the media if that theory doesn't hold true.

Me too...fine branch Acros and pale skin Acros ...ohhhh yeah!!

Hmm, well that's a good sign that Mg has dropped. How did it get so high to begin with? Sorry if I missed something....just hopped in on the convo. I was under the impression the Mg has been climbing since you switched to the CaRx. ..?

 

[Oldude]

Groovy stuff Matt!

 

[Reefvet]

On this topic any recent triton or other lab tests run on various media & CaCo3 reactor effluent?

We do it in our lab every time a CA reactor is refilled and then we test every 2 weeks as the CaCO3 is reduced.

Corals in their native environment may not (do not) grow consistently. Skeletal structure will contain different levels of Strotium depending on the growth rate and Strontium availability at the depth and temperature where the organism grew. Day growth will vary compared to night growth.

If the CaCO3 in your reactor contains more or less Strontium than the CaCO3 your corals are depositing in your reef tank a deficiency or an unnaturally high level may develop. Depending on the species of coral higher levels of Strontium may contribute to increased growth, this has been demonstrated in controlled studies, but there is no significant study showing that a minor deficiency of Strontium will deter calcification. None of the hobbyist level tests for it are accurate and dosing it is risky at best. The best practice is to do 10% weekly water changes to balance any variation in Strontium demand versus supply.

I've just caught up on the last 2 months of this thread.

The tank looks great Matt. But IMO it's time, change some water before you defeat all your good efforts.

Coral B is indeed intended to function much like Coral Snow but there's more to it than that. It's not the source of your problems and not contributing to the ionic imbalance.

 

[mhucasey]

We do it in our lab every time a CA reactor is refilled and then we test every 2 weeks as the CaCO3 is reduced.

Corals in their native environment may not (do not) grow consistently. Skeletal structure will contain different levels of Strotium depending on the growth rate and Strontium availability at the depth and temperature where the organism grew. Day growth will vary compared to night growth.

If the CaCO3 in your reactor contains more or less Strontium than the CaCO3 your corals are depositing in your reef tank a deficiency or an unnaturally high level may develop. Depending on the species of coral higher levels of Strontium may contribute to increased growth, this has been demonstrated in controlled studies, but there is no significant study showing that a minor deficiency of Strontium will deter calcification. None of the hobbyist level tests for it are accurate and dosing it is risky at best. The best practice is to do 10% weekly water changes to balance any variation in Strontium demand versus supply.

I've just caught up on the last 2 months of this thread.

The tank looks great Matt. But IMO it's time, change some water before you defeat all your good efforts.

Coral B is indeed intended to function much like Coral Snow but there's more to it than that. It's not the source of your problems and not contributing to the ionic imbalance.

ReefVet!!! Welcome back! While the tank actually looked really good after the few Alk adjustments, I went ahead and changed out 25 gallons of water this evening.

I won't be dosing any Strontium in the near future and I'll follow a modified version of Joes plan, turning the calcium reactor down to where it won't keep up with Alk demand and making up the difference with two part until the Calcium and Magnesium levels are where they should be.

 

[mhucasey]

Nice!!! Super cool to watch your reef fill out since adding the second tank. I'm sure it looks even better in person keep up the great work!

Thanks very much! We will have to get together some time.

Me too...fine branch Acros and pale skin Acros ...ohhhh yeah!!

Hmm, well that's a good sign that Mg has dropped. How did it get so high to begin with? Sorry if I missed something....just hopped in on the convo. I was under the impression the Mg has been climbing since you switched to the CaRx. ..?

I had raised it a while back to encourage Coraline algae and discourage nuisance algae, but I don't think it had much of an effect. Then I had a bad test kit that led to me adding additional Magnesium on top of that. That was sometime last summer I think. So the value was dropping, slowly, but that has pretty much stopped since the reactor went in. The value hasn't risen which is good.