Mixing Salt Brands

[Horace]

Sheesh Henry I really wanted to avoid even replying because all we seem to do is bicker, but I am here to tell you that about 75% of his corals were nothing more than frags when he started the tank. Even though is tank is relatively young, unlike most folks he had SPS in the tank within 2 weeks of starting it. For example, his caps which are gigantic were merey quarter size frags alog with tons of other stuff. Not only are his colors out of this world but his growth is out of this world too. If his way of doing things gets good results by "stressing" the corals, then apprently stressed corals have awesome colors and grow like weeds. If thats the case, I guess I want to stress my corals too . You can try to shoot him down in anyway you like, but I know one thing for sure. His tank is and probably will be better than anything you or I or most anyone else here in this forum will ever accomplish. Its really too bad he isnt here to defend himself. There is a reason I didnt bring up his name. I really wished you hadnt either.

BTW, he said he has some what recently (last few months?) contacted you atleast twice about hosting a meeting, and you never responded so he has pretty much given up even trying to host, especially since he cant even post here. I really think it would be an awesome place for a meeting, but perhaps I am a bit biased. I know I am in awe everytime I get the chance to view it.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6822360#post6822360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by andycook
All along weren't you talking about mixing salt brands? I'm confused.

I said originally that the goal is NSW type levels of the salt and said the two best ways (without being a chemist) is to get either Seachem salt or mix IO and Oceanic salts 50:50. The tank I showed you does run Seachem, however, the point is that NSW levels are something I and many others think is important, especially for SPS. No doubt Epon has some success but his corals are a far stretch from the tank I showed you. GRANTED, salt is by far the determining factor, but it is one building block to a great tank. The guy whos tank I showed you used to run IO for years in his other tanks and stands behind it as good salt, and as I mentioned I run IO as well. That being said, IO simply does not result in NSW type levels of some key elements which I have mentioned many times over. So basically I am promoting NSW type levels more than anything else in this thread, and I have offered you guys two choices on how to easily get it (atleast initially on a water change). You can do with that information what you wish....But I think its hard to argue that running NSW levels is a bad idea.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6823292#post6823292 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RV8tor
All I can say is WOW, those corals are B.E.A.Utiful. No doubt something is working for him. So how did you say I can get some frags from him?

Well given the fact that he is banned from ReefCentral, it is against RC policy for me to even talk about him really which is why I didnt bring up his name. However, if you want to contact me personally I might be able to set you up with his phone #. First I want to talk to him before I give the impression that he is even interested in fragging at the moment. I dont want to speak for somone else's tank.

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6823554#post6823554 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RV8tor
Brad where is that forum at I looked couldn't find

Thats because RC removed it. Try putting a www in front of it

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6824125#post6824125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace

BTW, he said he has some what recently (last few months?) contacted you atleast twice about hosting a meeting, and you never responded so he has pretty much given up even trying to host, especially since he cant even post here. I really think it would be an awesome place for a meeting, but perhaps I am a bit biased. I know I am in awe everytime I get the chance to view it.

What more can I do?

From: Henry C. Schultz
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:48 AM
To: 'Jeff Hoselton'
Subject: RE: CIMA meetings

Jeff,

I work 3 jobs, attend school full-time, have a family to attend to, and have 57 e-mails to answer ahead of yours.

But since patience is not your virtue

You can follow CIMA in the RC club forums, or your can register on our e-mail database for CIMA updates. Off the top of my head I do not know what dates are open. I think pretty much everything in the fall is open. However, we do require you make it to 2 or 3 meetings prior to hosting your first.

Cheers,

Henry

 

[epon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6824184#post6824184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
No doubt Epon has some success but his corals are a far stretch from the tank I showed you.

:mixed:

 

[Horace]

Epon, abosolutly nothing against your tank or your success, but I think if you were to see his tank in person, you would agree that his is simply top notch. While I would love to have your success myself some day as well, his tank is simply above and beyond. There are few in the country that have had his success.

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6824125#post6824125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
Sheesh Henry I really wanted to avoid even replying because all we seem to do is bicker, but I am here to tell you that about 75% of his corals were nothing more than frags when he started the tank. Even though is tank is relatively young, unlike most folks he had SPS in the tank within 2 weeks of starting it. For example, his caps which are gigantic were merey quarter size frags alog with tons of other stuff.

well that impresses me. i'm glad to hear he didn't just fill it with colonies 3 months into starting it.

Not only are his colors out of this world but his growth is out of this world too. If his way of doing things gets good results by "stressing" the corals, then apprently stressed corals have awesome colors and grow like weeds. If thats the case, I guess I want to stress my corals too .

well, then you want to stress your corals essentially you are freaking out the mycosporine-like amino acids which we call s-320. if we could relate s-320 to human terms, we would call it sun block. the more intense the light, the more s-320 which the coral requires. the more s-320 a coral carries, the brighter the coloration it displays. a very simple correlation dating back to 1969. this is, quite simply, why shallow water corals exhibit much more color than deep water corals.

of course, with the increase of UV comes the increase of photosynthetic zooxanthellae, and thus the ability to produce larger amounts of sugar for the coral to use as food (aka growth).

you can follow any "system" you want, but if you want bright corals which grow fast all you gotta do is gradually add more UV.

His tank is and probably will be better than anything you or I or most anyone else here in this forum will ever accomplish.

well, TBH, that is presumptious on your part. i really would not want to create his tank as it lacks imagination. the colors are rock solid, but the fruit stand look is out dated and doesn't fit me well

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6836684#post6836684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3
well, TBH, that is presumptious on your part. i really would not want to create his tank as it lacks imagination. the colors are rock solid, but the fruit stand look is out dated and doesn't fit me well

Well I wasnt referring to his aquascaping anyway though that looks more than adequite as well. Im not sure what new non "fruit-stand" look you are talking about but to each his own. I am talking about his coral health and overall coloration and growth. Without a vastly different shaped tank, its pretty darn hard to get away from the "fruit-stand" look and still have it look good. Obviously the bigger the tank,(mainly deeper as you look into it from the front), will give you more options, but frankly on tanks 2 ft deep or less, your options are fairly limited.

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6837555#post6837555 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace
but frankly on tanks 2 ft deep or less, your options are fairly limited.

you lack imagination

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6837847#post6837847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3
you lack imagination

Thx.

 

[David MC Lee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6836684#post6836684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3
this is, quite simply, why shallow water corals exhibit much more color than deep water corals.

Henry This does not make since to me. I thought the brightest corals lived in total darkness like the Dendronephthay? Can you
explane this better.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6836684#post6836684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3
you can follow any "system" you want, but if you want bright corals which grow fast all you gotta do is gradually add more UV

I would agree with this statement, I didn't really follow how how it relates to the zeovit system. Can you try again for the slow people like me here.

Thanks

 

[Horace]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6836684#post6836684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3
you can follow any "system" you want, but if you want bright corals which grow fast all you gotta do is gradually add more UV.

I think Henry makes it sound alot simpler than it really is. If getting colorful/healthy corals was simply a matter of adding more and more light, anyone could do it. The fact is there is a heck of alot more than just light to get good corals. I would say light is perhaps only about 30% of the battle. The other portion consists of super low nutrients, propper flow, and propper coral nutrition.

 

[David MC Lee]

I took his statement as more of a joke. Yea lot of uv will make them bright but kill them in the process.

 

[Horace]

I actually dont think he was joking at all. He is saying that as the coral produces more of its chemical to protect itself from the UV, it becomes more colorful. To be honest I really dont know the exact science behind it, but it does make sense. But even if that is the case, its much more complicated than that alone. There are alot of factors that can make or break color.

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6843207#post6843207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David MC Lee
Henry This does not make since to me. I thought the brightest corals lived in total darkness like the Dendronephthay? Can you
explane this better.

david,

dendro's are not photosynthetic, so that doesn't count i believe we are discussing stoney corals here (or at least i am).

I would agree with this statement, I didn't really follow how how it relates to the zeovit system. Can you try again for the slow people like me here.

well i'm not sure exactly what your question is dave. if you can rephrase it i'd be happy to help.

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6843710#post6843710 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by David MC Lee
I took his statement as more of a joke. Yea lot of uv will make them bright but kill them in the process.

exactly!

no i'm not joking. added UV does both and hence why i told horace he wanted to stress his corals. would i recommend it? no way, but if you want nucleur colors from your corals, that is how to do it (in genric speak).

 

[Sloeber]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6844375#post6844375 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Horace I actually dont think he was joking at all.

no i wasn't.

He is saying that as the coral produces more of its chemical to protect itself from the UV, it becomes more colorful. To be honest I really dont know the exact science behind it, but it does make sense.

really horace, with zero disrespect intended, if you do not understand this process i think you should be studying and researching coral biology instead of miracle systems.

But even if that is the case, its much more complicated than that alone. There are alot of factors that can make or break color. [/B]

exactly, and the single most important factor is the spectrum of UV crossig the coral. is it 320nm or 410nm? each causes diffferent colors in the pigments of the coral.

easiest example that we are all familiar with - VHO actinics. they reproduce, IIRC, 420nm (maybe 420 is just stuck in my head! :smokin: ). a tank with MH and no actinic is nice, but add that actinic on there and the green colors POP.

changing the UV output on the bulb will make just about any color more intense (given certain spectrums produced of course).

the japanese are WAY ahead of us on this, too. they run low nutrient aquariums (no "systems") but their tanks are crazy with lighting. some corals have specific spot lamps on just one coral. if you haven't research japnese tanks, do yourself a favor and take a look at them. you will find incredible colors, and no gimics.

 

[lglamb]

Sounds interesting.

Let's split this "directed lighting" to it's own thread.

 

[rick rottet]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6836684#post6836684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hcs3



well, then you want to stress your corals essentially you are freaking out the mycosporine-like amino acids which we call s-320. if we could relate s-320 to human terms, we would call it sun block. the more intense the light, the more s-320 which the coral requires. the more s-320 a coral carries, the brighter the coloration it displays. a very simple correlation dating back to 1969. this is, quite simply, why shallow water corals exhibit much more color than deep water corals.

of course, with the increase of UV comes the increase of photosynthetic zooxanthellae, and thus the ability to produce larger amounts of sugar for the coral to use as food (aka growth).

you can follow any "system" you want, but if you want bright corals which grow fast all you gotta do is gradually add more UV.

Is there a difference between mycosporine-LIKE amino acids and "actual" MAA? (I'm not familiar with the term s-320.)
In my research, I seem to find that MAA's are absorbtive pigments (or like you said, sunblock). A clear-ish or opaque mucous coating. That they don't contribute to a coral's coloration. Producing this coating is also an energy cost to the coral, so it needs more nutrition to maintain itself and/or grow.

I find that it is the reflective pigments that are excited by differing levels of spectrum (or intensity) that contribute to a coral's coloraton (or at least our human perception of coloration).