Montipora caps bleaching

[KafudaFish]

I posted this in the SPS forum but no responses yet. Two of my caps are starting to bleach. These are ones that I have superglued to the epoxy to attach to my rock. One started to bleach over the last 24 hours. After attaching the glue I held it under water only a few seconds after. The others, and none from Dave, are doing fine. I don't think it is lighting since they went from MH to T5 and my photoperiod is only 6 hours per day.
Any ideas? Hope? Or are they lost?
Thanks

 

[cee]

What type of epoxy? Many have exothermic reactions, and since the caps are thin, the heat can cook them. Could also be chemicals released by the epoxy when it cures. Is there any live tissue left that can be fragged off the bleached part in an attempt to save it? Also, are you using straight SeaChem Reef Salt for WC?

Dave

 

[KafudaFish]

It is the basic gray AquaticStix brand that I picked up from Coral Reef. I followed your directions and after the glue stuck I put it in a bowl of water to transfer the heat from the reaction. There is still living tissue. The first one, a green, I broke into three pieces when I pressed down and there is a line of bleaching for each. The other, a red was fine but today it has a quarter sized bleach spot. I use IO salt.
If the bleaching continues any suggestions? Do I frag what is still alive and not attach it to anything? Thanks. Your purple was not attached and it is fine as well as the huge orange. I still have to figure out where to put it.

 

[KafudaFish]

Ok I looked at the red metallic cap and it is now 50% bleached. I can actual see the bleaching process spreading. This is very depressing.
Is there anything I can do or is this a big crap shoot? I understand that corals fade away for various reasons but I would like to learn why and not repeat the process again.
Does bleached = death everytime and remove the frag or do I leave it in and hope it makes a comback? Do I shade my tank for the next few weeks? Any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[cee]

I suspect it is not bleaching but may instead be monti eating nudis, esp. since it seems as those you noticed tissue loss overnight. I've not had experience with the nudis, but there should be lots of info here on RC about them. If you suspect bleaching, then lower light temporarily should help. I assume all other water parameters are in-line.

Dave

 

[KafudaFish]

Yes water is fine. I will look for the nudis threads. Just what I need. Thanks.

 

[seattlerob]

FWIW: I took 2 frags off my Monti Cap & used the gray 2-part epoxy to attach them to LR. Both pieces, where the epoxy was used, bleached on the top side of the caps within 24-48 hrs. It was basically the exact same area where the epoxy was on the bottom. The remainder of the frag was ok & continued to grow. Over time, it grew back over the part that had bleached/died from the epoxy. I'm sure it was the exothermic reaction of the epoxy that caused the bleaching.

I understand superglue gel also has an exothermic reaction, but I believe it's not as much as the 2 part epoxy. I only use superglue gel now to attach frags, and use the 2 part epoxy to attach rock to rock.

HTH,
Rob

 

[gflat65]

There are some great shots in the sps forum in a 'Predator' thread of the nudis. The ones in the pics look like monsters compared to the ones I've seen, but it may just be a scale thing. They are usually pretty small, but you can easily see them if you look hard enough with the naked eye. Look for the frills. Let's hope you don't have them...

 

[cee]

I've used epoxy/SG gel on many monti frags for mounting and never had a problem with exothermic reaction-induced tissue recession. I use AquaMend almost exclusively, and I recall reading somewhere where it doesn't produce as much heat as some. If the recession is near where it was mounted to the LR, then that would obviously be suspect.

Dave

 

[KafudaFish]

Rob,
You pretty much described what happened. My worry is that too much of the cap came into contact with the epoxy. My wife thinks I used too much epoxy, about the size of a grape, to attach the frags, thumb size, to the rock.
I will examine the frag tonight after the lights are back on. If the frag dies I will feel badly but will use this as a learning experience.
Again, I believe it is the epoxy and not nudis or my lighting (I hope). Thanks everyone.

 

[seattlerob]

Yup: I actually took 2 frags, but it ended up being 3 pieces, as one of the frags broke off an extra very tiny piece. I used 2 part epoxy to attach all 3 pieces. All 3 bleached where the epoxy was underneath, the smallest of the frags totally bleached because the entire bottom was in contact with the epoxy. That one obviously didn't make it, but the other 2 were ok (probably about 1/5 of the total surface area bleached). That was about 3 months ago, and both frags now have just about completely grown over the bleached portions.

I think as long as you still have some of each frag that didn't bleach, your frags should be ok.

 

[H@rry]

My experince is that you need only the super glue in contact with the frag tissue. Glue the frag to a very small piece of rock and then attach that rock whereever you want in the tank with AquaMend. I find that the AquaMend in very good for conforming the shape of the bottom of the frag rock to the shape of the "reef rock" but no so good at adhering. Therefore I alway use super glue in conjunction with the AquaMend like this:

frag | super glue | small rock | super glue | AquaMend | super glue | "reef rock"

This way the frag is never in contact with the AquaMend putty.

P.S. Hope you Tennessee people don't mind me "butting in" but I have been following your forum since before the frag swap.

 

[KafudaFish]

Well I looked at the red cap and the diameter of the bleach ring is the same size plus a few mm but there is some part of the frag that is not near the epoxy so maybe some still lives.
H@rry, "butt" in whenever. We are all here to learn from one another.
I still have a few more frags to glue and I will practice on a few pieces that broke off the giant frag Dave sold me. I will try your method and see.