Montmorrollinite Clay.

Jk5

New member
Montmorrollinite clay.
http://translate.google.es/translat...yysusderivados.htm&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8

This product is being used like food aditive (mixed at 1-5% with food) and is used for water purification and to enhance coral coloration when it used pure withouh mix in food...
http://translate.google.es/translat...=107548#post107548&sl=es&tl=en&hl=es&ie=UTF-8

Any reefer has a koi pond and do you know this product?
Have you tried montmorrollinite Clay in salt water?
anybody knows this product called montmorrollinite clay?
 
It states in your link, "It is a hydrothermal alteration mineral rich in aluminum, which are typically in volcanic ash (Bentonites)."

I would be concerned about aluminum in a reef tank.
 
What is it you want it to do in a reef tank?

I'm familiar with it, but I personally doubt it will do anything useful for a reef aquarium.
 
Hello Highland...
Like I said I think montmorrollinite clay is being used at salt aquarium in 2 kinds of products...

1) food products (mixed with food at 1-5%)
2) without mix like water depuration and minerals and nutrient source to enhance coral coloration
 
I don't know anything about this stuff myself. I saw it had aluminum and that concerned me. Randy is much more qualified to answer your questions. :)

To me it looks like something that you would mix in your sand which would not have much value IMHO. I would not call it a food. ;)
 
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If you want to play around with increasing different metals or other ions, then I would choose only one at a time and see what effects they may have. I would use a source for these metals, etc....... with known concentrations. The mix you are using is very inconsistent IMHO. You have no way of determining which part of this mix is doing something, if anything. :)
 
I promise for Snoopy that my next words are not apologise of nothing...
It is only info...


C. Schuhmacher
RC Sponsor

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Occupation: Manager
Posts: 725



Hi


The cleaning of water is only one part of the advantages which Ultralife have
It is not a zeolith powder like the most other watercleares
We use the Ultralife also as an food cause the material is able to bind organic subtances and give it to the corals as an food

The particles which will not covered by a coral will skim up
and help to reduce the waterpollution
greets

Hobby Experience: since 1985
Interests: Diving Coralfarming



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Jk5
Registered Member

Registered: Apr 2008
Location:
Occupation:
Posts: 180


Hi Claude...
I understand that ultra life is mineral clay (montmorrollinite clay).
Wich would be the most important chemicals diferences between the montmorrollinite clay and the zeolite?
the chemical properties would be similar, but montmorrollinite clay would be softer (more soft) in their ab-adsortion range than zeolites? other diferences?
Is the same the montmorrollinite clay used in salt water than the montmorrollinite clay used in fresh water (koi ponds)?

Hobby Experience: 0



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07/22/2008 10:43 PM

C. Schuhmacher
RC Sponsor

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Stuttgart Germany
Occupation: Manager
Posts: 725



Hi

We use a special kind of clay which did not only work as an
adsorber , it works also as an ion exchanger which can be used
for coral feeding.
instead from zeolith powder it works softer and
can be used as a food

Greests claude
 
What Claude is stating here does not make much sense from my point of view. It is similar to saying that my well water is the miricle water for making your corals look gorgeous. You have no real idea what the concentration of different things are in it, but I know that my well water is special and it will make your corals grow like never before. My well water will bring out the best colors over anything else you have ever bought.

I will sell you some of my well water for a special price. For you, I will only charge $25.00 per gallon. It normally sells for $50.00. I'll even include shipping for free. How many gallons do you want to order? :D
 
A Clay question right up my alley :)

Some sea salt use it as a binder and it is common in many foods as a mineral source or for plants or planted aquariums. It is even used in medicine. It is used allot in the drilling industry as a lube and cooling agent. It is often called Fuller’s Earth. As far as it use as a ion exchanger is seawater nil, just as Zeolite are.

Montmorrollinite, spelled Montmorillonite is famous for its ability to adsorb water and swell as many other Clay Minerals are. It is not related to Zeolites at all as some like to claim. Their ion tetrahedral and octahedral arrangement is quite different. It is a phyllosilicate clay mineral and very closely related to Mica's. And is a Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminum Magnesium Silicate Hydroxide



(Na,Ca)0,3(Al,Mg)2Si4O10(OH)2·n(H2O)
Composition: Molecular Weight = 549.07 gm
Sodium ......0.84 % -- Na .....1.13 % Na2O
Calcium .....0.73 % -- Ca ......1.02 % CaO
Aluminum....9.83 % -- Al ......18.57 % Al2O3
Silicon ......20.46 % -- Si......43.77 % SiO2
Hydrogen....4.04 % -- H ......36.09 % H2O
Oxygen......64.11%
................._____..............._________
. ............100.00 %..............100.58 % = TOTAL OXIDE


It forms from the alteration of volcanic tuffs and ash, usually form weathering or in the formation of Late-Hydrothermal formations.

I see no real use for it as some kind of "additive"
 
Excuseme Randy...
we had writen at the same time and I had not read you..
Thank you very much, Randy, for your answer too.
 
JK5,

I can think of one possible use for this product, and that would be if you want to plant seagrasses or true vascular plants in your tank. The clay would hold needed micro-nutrients in the root zone of the seagrasses, etc...., mangroves.

Have you been working with certain metals in your system to see what effects they may have on your coral colors?
 
No I didnt...
But like Glasbox said I guess this issue will go around Iron, zinc, manganese and so...
 
These pics are from my friend Santiago...

Montipora, before and after Iron, manganese, zinc (+3%potassium) adition (Kent marine)

0549DSB.jpg


La misma ahora (fijaos en el cambio de color, todo empezó con las adiciones de hierro, manganeso y zinc):

DSC_1762.jpg
 
In the first picture, the rock is covered in some pest, it could be a cyanobacteria (bubbles), which could be irritating the coral in question. The second picture there appears to be no pest on the rocks. Maybe you are saying that this miracle mud will rid pests off of live rock (I rather doubt this). Plus you have a new coral appearing in the 2nd picture. I would not hold much confidence that anything is demonstrated by this example. Like I said earlier in this post, there are too many variables with the ingredients in this clay to demonstrate much value that it is beneficial in anyway.

I think you would be better off and take one component at a time and work with it. A good example would be iron. Use Randy's Iron Gluconate Mix and work with different doses of it to see what effects it may have on your corals and their colors. My two cents. :)
 
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I just notice in that assay I posted the Mg++ is missing. That is becasue Ca++ can be either Ca++, Mg++ or both.

It or the orginal assay of std Mont is more on the order of.........

(Ca<sub>0.14</sub>Na <sub>0.02</sub>) <sub>Σ=0.16(</sub>Al<sub>1.68</sub>Mg<sub>0.36</sub>Fe<sub>0.04</sub>)<sub>Σ=2.08</sub>(Si<sub>3.90</sub>Al<sub>0.10</sub>)<sub>Σ=4.00</sub>O<sub>10</sub>(OH)<sub>2</sub> · nH<sub>2</sub>O



and in its more simple form to make more sense for the non-chemists

(Na, Ca)(Al, Mg)<sub>6</sub>(Si<sub>4</sub>O<sub>10</sub>)3(OH)<sub>6</sub> · nH<sub>2</sub>O

The n= x molecuels of water. So that n could be 4, 5, 10 etc.

SiO2 51.14

Al2O3 19.76

Fe2O3 0.83

MgO 3.22

CaO 1.62

Na2O 0.11

K2O 0.04

H2O<sup>+</sup> 7.99

H2O<sup>¡</sup> 14.81
____________
Total 99.52 %
and 100 % = 1,000,000 ppm or 1,000,000 mg / Kg of Montmorillonite. So, that 1.16 % Ca++(see below) = 11,600 mg of Ca++ in 1 Kg of Montmorillonite.

Don't let those O's bother you, as in , CaO. That is just how it is given, as if they were oxides. It is just how it is usually expressed in geology, mineralogy and petrology. The O % could be subtraced by removing the % weight of O to get just Ca++.

CaO = 1.62 %

Ca = 40 MW

O = 16 MW

40 + 16 = 56 MW CaO

Ca = 40 / 56 = 71.42 % of 1.62 % = 1.16 % Ca++

Formulas such as these are not set in stone as the ions % can always be a tad different. Also, there are two forms of Montmorillonite.
 
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It is used in the nearly impervious clay layer at the bottom of all newer landfills, lagoons, etc.. Mixed at a rate of about 1:5 with native soil., it expands up to 100% when wet. Its is also used as a cheap temporary lining bewtween the well casing and earth, therefore as a drilling mud. For a food supplement I imagine it is about as kosher as the cement they feed to beef cattle in stockyards to increase their food's residence time. Nice constipating affect I would imagine. IMO It seems more like something beneficial to the dollars and cents aquaculture industry and is likely just a result of an aqaurium distributer/manafacturer trying to cash in on a practice of the aquaculture industry. I have not heard of aquarium keepers being up at arms about the need for better food uptake effiency.
 
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Thank you all...

And it is used like a carrier too... like food for clams...

I´m sorry but the forum doesnt not admit the next cache link...
I have made a copy paste...
It talk about:
"promote beautiful coral" "coral begins blooming"




TerraPond
Calcium Montmomrillonite Clay

Excellent Solution to Build
Fish Immune System
Clarify The Water
Improve the Digestion of Your Fish
Lengthen their Life Span
Purify and Clarify the Water

"as well as offset the effects of chlorination and other chemicals."

How Can I Enhance My Pond So My Koi and Other Aquatic Life Thrive?

A great question, for most of us would find it really quite wonderful, satisfying and relaxing to sit quietly next to our pond with the water clear and the Koi, and other fish displaying vibrant colors with beautiful shapes and patterns, and the plant life healthy, green and abundant.

Most pond keepers recognize the value of water quality and install the best water filtration systems available. Although this is very important, most ponds end up with a deficiency of essential minerals and trace elements, and an environment void of beneficial bacteria. Although your fish may survive, this situation greatly reduces the chance for your fish to thrive and have optimum health.

Koi hobbyists and breeders know the secrets to raising the healthiest, largest and most beautiful Koi. These experts create the best environment by emulating the "mud" ponds of Japan. The Japanese "mud" ponds are packed and lined with natural earth clay, rich in micronutrients and containing montmorillonite. Research shows when calcium-based montmorillonite clay is present in the water, a number of benefits become noticeable within weeks i.e.

**Fish color delineation becomes beautiful
**Immune system of the fish strengthens
**Increased water clarity is noticeable
**Plants generate new healthy growth
**Coral begins blooming

Not all of us are going to recreate a Japanese mud pond, however we can enhance the quality of our aquatic life and create the best environment possible, for our pond pets and plants to thrive.

How Can The Calcium Montmorillonite Clay Help?

When calcium-based montmorillonite clay is present, it provides essential minerals and trace elements to the fish and plants AND detoxifies the water and fish. What takes place is a process of absorption and adsorption.

Rich in trace minerals and absorbable calcium, (contains over 60 essential trace minerals) each tiny, tiny particle of this calcium montmorillonite clay, aka Terrapond remains in an alkaline state retaining its electrically active, negatively charged ion. When introduced to the pond, the toxins, bacteria and pathogens in the water, which carry a positive electrically charged ion, bind to the negatively charged ions in the clay. These toxins are held in a colloidal state (suspended) inside the clay particles and leave through the filtration system.

The clay when ingested by fish, (they enjoy nibbling on the clay) goes through the digestive system binding to the toxins in the fish's body. These toxins are encapsulated in the clay and removed through their waste elimination process…toxins clay and all. The added benefit is that the calcium montmorillonite contains highly absorbable minerals that are easily assimilated by fish, humans and all animals, in turn strengthening the immune system, enhancing the production of enzymes, and effectively detoxifying the body.


The minerals in this particular clay also promote beautiful coral and plant growth, visibly displaying the results.


Much has been written and researched about the healthful benefits of calcium montmorillonite clay when ingested by humans and animals.

The Healing Power of Living Clay by Neva Jensen includes a study entitled Trout Researchers Share Info. The director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife services Tunison Research Lab in Hagerman, Idaho spoke about the biggest expense on a fish farm, which is the feed. However their studies proved whenever the fish were fed this cheap clay, they grew bigger even when the feed was reduced.


How Much Calcium Montmorillonite Should I Use?


Premium calcium montmorillonite is a very fine, pure, edible clay and it will stay suspended in your water while doing its work. Many first-time users are often concerned when their water doesn't clear in a short period of time. Please do not be alarmed. Even if you accidentally apply a dosage that exceeds the recommended amount, you can never harm or overdose your fish with this 100% natural product.

We suggest that you start with a conservative dose if your pond water is already at or close to an acceptable level of clarity. This clays colloidal suspension properties allow it to continue bonding with impurities, carrying them safely into your filter. It also allows more nutrients to get into your fish's systems. Since the best koi are raised and live in mud ponds, your fish will thank you for their mud bath that improves conformation, coloration, health, and vitality.


Weekly Good Water and Maintenance Dose
- 50 Grams (two heaping tablespoons) per each 1000 gallons of water every week.


Weekly Prior to a show/Sick Fish/Poor Water** Dose

- 100 Grams (1/4 cup or ¼ lb) per each 1000 gallons of water two to four weeks prior to the show or until conditions improve.

**Decomposed organic carbon (doc), algae (green water), pollution, toxins and lack of clarity.


For poor water conditions, more frequent doses may be required for several weeks until a water balance develops and maximum clarity is achieved. Once a balance is attained, you should be able to return to the Good Water and Maintenance dose or slightly more.



Other Considerations
Water temperature will vary during the year and your dosage amounts should reflect these changes. Lower doses may be used during the cooler months of the year. The speed of water clarity may be affected by your pond water turnover flow rate, number of fish, other animals (turtles), plants and filtration system.


A Wealth of Information About Koi Pond Construction


A very good place to gather free information if you are considering adding a pond to your landscape, or need help with your current pond is the American Koi Club Association. http://www.akca.org/. It is a very reliable and educational source for anyone, covering subjects from filters to spawning, fish nutrition, building a pond and diseases to be aware of. You will find they have articles on every subject, which will assist you in making an informed decision about what it takes to create the pond of your dreams.


A Word About Fish Food


I'd like to add one key point about fish food. Please feed your fish the freshest food you possibly can. Purchase it in small quantities so it does not have time to sit around and grow mold and fungi. Since the nutrients break down fairly quickly and mold and bacteria growth can happen in days, keep the food in a sealed, air-tight container in a dry place.

In Conclusion


Instead of waiting for disease or illness to occur to our fish and hoping it doesn't, many koi owners and breeders add premium calcium montmorillonite clay weekly to their ponds. This pure high quality clay is an organic edible compound that will improve the digestion of your fish, lengthen their life span, purify and clarify the water as well as offset the effects of chlorination and other chemicals.

If you decide to give premium calcium montmorillonite a whirl….and let me know how it works for you!


Maryanne, Paul and Alexandra Maldonado
The Pet Alternative
Tucson Arizona


If you have a quick question, feel free to phone. We receive so many e-mails, we can only occasionally respond to these.
E-mail: mm { at } ThePetAlternative.com
(Note: please type this address into your e-mail program with the "@" sign in the appropriate place. Our address is posted this way to avoid receiving spam.)


WE CAN BE REACHED @ 520.219.2379 9AM TO 4PM PST or email:
 
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