Moorish Idol...Reef safe?

[salt e]

there is a Moorish @ my LFS that eats like a PIG... he is about 2-3" from mouth to tail... i know that these fish have issues reguarding eating... so i asked to see him eat... Brine was used... it tore through the whole cube... to make a long story short...I WANT IT... i have seem some ppl on here with this fish in there reef tanks...well...umm... not really SOME ppl...but one person i guess... but i also know that this fish should be monitored with caution in some reef systems... can anyone please tell me why this is and what is a bad idea to have around this guy...

 

[Bebo77]

looks to me like you have your answer already...

 

[golfish]

probably not a good idea...

 

[Bigmike]

If hes eating, why not go for it! Theyre not that risky in a reef I thought? Ive seen guys keep them, the key is to not only make sure hes eating, but you need to get him the right diet for long term success. Do some searches, but if hes eating already, thats a really good sign.

 

[Jar*Head]

I Moris Idol finally eat mysis shrimp and pellets. Very friendly fish. He got pick on by my twin spot wrass approx 1/2 of his size

 

[salt e]

has anyone had one in a reef set up for over 3 months? curious what types of coral to stay away from if any...

 

[wsun083]

I know john (john 37) has one. I asked him about it a few days ago. He says it picks at some LPS and polyps, but it has done any huge damage yet. You should PM him about it.

 

[NicoleC]

To be blunt, he is a staggeringly bad choice for captivity, especially for a someone new.

At the very least, they will need a 200+ gallon tank (preferrably larger) and a steady supply of live tunicates and sponges to eat.

 

[golfish]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886205#post7886205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC
To be blunt, he is a staggeringly bad choice for captivity, especially for a someone new.

At the very least, they will need a 200+ gallon tank (preferrably larger) and a steady supply of live tunicates and sponges to eat.

Thanks Nicole....most of the time I'm not shy about these things but I just felt it was somebody elses turn.

 

[Bigmike]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886205#post7886205 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC
To be blunt, he is a staggeringly bad choice for captivity, especially for a someone new.

At the very least, they will need a 200+ gallon tank (preferrably larger) and a steady supply of live tunicates and sponges to eat.

Sorry, I really dont want to start a war over this, especially with Nicole (I wouldnt stand a chance ) but I had one in a 125 for about a year, I know this isnt long term success but I had to sell him with my larger tank back to the fish store, he was fat and healthy. IMO it isnt a good fish to count on surviving, but the more people to keep them in home aquariums successfully, the better we can learn to keep them. Just think about SPS and the ease that we keep them now compared to reefers 10 years ago.

Please lets not let this thread get crazy, but, they are a hard fish to keep in a home aquarium and not many people try because of their reputation.

 

[Bigmike]

When I get a bigger tank again in the future, I will keep one again hopefully, best group of fish I ever had.

 

[Jar*Head]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886275#post7886275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by golfish
Thanks Nicole....most of the time I'm not shy about these things but I just felt it was somebody elses turn.

If you don't mind to let me know which LFS did you saw the fish at. I will pick it up if you don't want it. It such a sweet little fish.

 

[salt e]

yea makes perfect sence... i think that i will research the fish more before i make a final decision... i dont think that i PERSONALLY am beyond careing for a fish that has high demands... it is a small fish at this point and im sure if i decided to go with this choice and taking on the responsibility, before it picks up another inch or 2 i will have moved it to the 220 gallon im planning on within the next 6-8 months... im not the type of person to adopt a life into a tank under my care and not move towards providing what it fully needs to live healthy and comfortably. Because i am new to reefing does not insinuate that i am lack or incompetent in any way, shape, or form. If i bring the fish home, i will not be introducing it into a death trap.

I know that IF i do bring the fish home SOME ppl may look at me like i have made the WRONG decision...maybe even frown when they see my avatar or read my screen name... BUT if i feel that i am fully capable to provide, and i am willing to lose a polyp here and there... along with providing live food here and there...i will do just that... if and when i feel that i have researched the fish enough and pm'd those individuals that need to be Pm'd to gather more first hand experence. i will then decide weather or not i will bring the fish home....

Unfortunately i find myself attempting to justify, being new to reefing, wanting a certian fish. im sure if thats the case, @ which point does one become a veteran and quaulify to moving to the next level.

i just think that a good ol' " This is a hard fish to care for, very demanding, it would be nice FOR THE FISH if you did all your reading and closely considered the loop holes you might and will have to jump through in order to keep him happy and ALIVE.". insteed of a (in other words) "Your new...forget about it." I have a relentless quest for knowledge when it comes to sea life. im sure i wont let the LIFE of an animal down by bringing him home.

 

[NicoleC]

You are new to the hobby. So is everyone, at some point, and it's no cause for shame, but it is relevant in your choices. That you are researching and asking questions is to your credit.

Hundreds of new hobbiests come through this forum with the same high hopes that they will be the ones to find the secret to keeping whatever hard-to-keep species and they jump in with cash and enthusiasm and the best of intentions, then burn out and everything is for sale 6 months later because they get frustrated that everything dies.

It's the slow and cautious hobbiests that succeed and survive for a long time in this hobby. I encourage you to be one of them... instead of the ones frustrated to tears when their $1400 frag of Extra-Super-Duper-Multicolor-SPS dies, or just turns brown.

Plans for bigger tanks fall by the wayside. Often! Plan your livestock for the tank you have. They'll work out fine with the bigger tank.

A Moorish Idol is not a borderline fish, not even an advanced fish. It's a fish that has such specialized needs that it's almost impossible to keep in captivity even briefly. Even if a fish is fat and eating, doesn't mean it isn't malnourished and won't suffer poor health and a dramatically reduced lifespan. As Mike said, 1 year is not a long term success.

It would, IMO, be irresponsible of me NOT to tell you how poor the survival rates of this fish are, and it has nothing to do with whether or not I think you would try hard. I don't think anyone would accuse me of being too subtle or slippery when it comes to sharing my opinion. Now, if you asked the question because you wanted people to give you the answers you wanted to hear, I suggest you add me to your ignore list, because I will never be one of those people!

To put a perspective on my opinion about keeping this fish, *I* wouldn't try to keep this fish. I've kept SW tanks for 13 years, have nursed sick fish for people back from the brink of death, have successfully paired or grouped numerous fish species, and am one of a handful of people in the world to raise the yellow watchman goby in captivity. I am not shy about tackling tougher fish and coral problems.

I wouldn't touch it. Even if I thought I could keep it, I would not encourage the importation of the fish by purchasing one.

As an alternative, you might consider the Heniochus diphreutes -- a butterfly fish that looks like a Moorish Idol but is much easier to keep. Not EASY to keep, but easier. If you have your heart set on one, maybe this fish will be an acceptable substitute.
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=7769

 

[jjirsa78]

Heniochus diphreutes and Heniochus acuminatus both ...

I've been looking into these as well, and I've heard diphreutes tend to abuse LPS, was wondering how acuminatus behaved, but reliable information seems hard to come by...

 

[salt e]

for starter...your points are well taken... great POV reguarding the fish in topic... but one thing that you could count on is me NOT adding anyone to an ignore list that has anything of value to share...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7886991#post7886991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by salt e
" I have a relentless quest for knowledge.

im not a coward that runs at the first sign of debate, nor do i feel i need the approval when seeking information as in someone "saying what i want to hear" just like i said... i am researching the fish and considering weather or not to bring the fish home... since i have posted the topic... just the information i have personally gathered has me saying more no then yes... but that is neither here nor there... i was just not too thrilled to read that i should not beacuse i was NEW... that is not a good enough reason for me... every point you followed up with on the other hand IS. im looking for LOGICAL reasons why... not because im new to the hobby... that doesn't quaulify as a logical reason.

 

[NicoleC]

:thumbsup:

Being new IS logical; with some people more than others. It's not a personal attack. After you've watched a lot of fish, seen them both healthy and sick, seen which ones lived their full lives and which did not -- you get a a better feel for how a fish IS. It's not something you can pick up by research or even by posting photos and asking questions. You start with individual fish and expand.

Of course, some people never pick it up.

It's like how you know your cat is mad, even when she's laying there sleeping. After a while, you just KNOW.

 

[salt e]

HOW DO YOU ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO GET YOUR POINT ACROSS....$%!T ! i almost thought i had one ok... but one thing is Trial and Error... if you never try... you will never learn... and if the Moorish Idol * IS * the fish that i would prefer to devote the rest of my reefing life attempting to house...then so be it... to each his / her own. just like you have to learn fish... *I* even though i almost know better.... feel that i might be up to tackling this underwater project... i think that the loss of this debate is pushing me to run to the LFS and grab the fish so 10 years from now i can say, "Can someone tell NicoleC that i have done the IMPOSSIBLE even for her " only time will tell.

 

[CW from the OC]

salt e

Niclole is right on the mark. Being new IS a logical reason not to get a moorish idol. I've wanted one for over 30 years, and I still avoid the temptation.

You'll also find that when the crap hits the fan, Nicole will be the first one of offer up help, whether it be advice, equipment, a helping hand, and even housing livestock. Listen to her, you'll thank her when you have the experience and perspective to see that she is right.

 

[noschmo]

Moorish Idols should be left in the ocean. You will not find any knowlegible souce indicate anything other than that they are very difficult to maintain and in my opinion, should not be sold by LFS's. And they are not a reef fish and would require very large tanks even if you could keep it alive.